Hawker Typhoon

[danllama]

Tango13 said:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Typhoon-Pilot-Desmond-Sco...

Bought this in a charity shop a while back and just getting in to it, excellent so far. I love the Typhoon, for some reason much more appealing than the Tempest!

[Vlad the Imp]

This thread has reminded me I've been meaning to ask a question here for a while. What are people's thoughts on the chances of the RB396 Typhoon restoration project being successful and leading to an airworthy Typhoon? I saw their stand at Biggin Hill airshow in the summer and spend some money on a few bits of merchandise as I've always been a fan of the Typhoon. However I was thinking about making a more significant donation as I'd love to see one fly again but would prefer not to spend money on a lost cause.

Any thoughts and knowledge from those that know about these things?

[dr_gn]

Vlad the Imp said:

This thread has reminded me I've been meaning to ask a question here for a while. What are people's thoughts on the chances of the RB396 Typhoon restoration project being successful and leading to an airworthy Typhoon? I saw their stand at Biggin Hill airshow in the summer and spend some money on a few bits of merchandise as I've always been a fan of the Typhoon. However I was thinking about making a more significant donation as I'd love to see one fly again but would prefer not to spend money on a lost cause.

Any thoughts and knowledge from those that know about these things?

Look at the progress of Kermit Weeks’ Tempest V restoration, and look at his resources, then look at where the RB396 Typhoon guys are at and make your decision. Even with a huge injection of cash, there are still some massive hurdles to clear, I’d guess many related to the engine. It’s obviously not impossible to bring an extinct warbird back to life and good luck to them, but I think it would be anything but a short-term investment, if you want to see it flying.

[V8 Fettler]

I thought I had a basic understanding of the workings of the Sabre engine until I saw the engine with cutout sections at Duxford.

[Dr Jekyll]

dr_gn said:

Look at the progress of Kermit Weeks’ Tempest V restoration, and look at his resources, then look at where the RB396 Typhoon guys are at and make your decision. Even with a huge injection of cash, there are still some massive hurdles to clear, I’d guess many related to the engine. It’s obviously not impossible to bring an extinct warbird back to life and good luck to them, but I think it would be anything but a short-term investment, if you want to see it flying.

Kermit does spread his resources pretty thinly so not strictly comparable. But certainly looking at the Mosquito rebuilds or the Duxford Beaufighter it's going to be a long term job. It's worth supporting, but only if you regard these restorations as interesting ongoing projects in their own right rather than as expensive preliminaries to seeing a Typhoon in the air.

[Vlad the Imp]

Dr Jekyll said:

Kermit does spread his resources pretty thinly so not strictly comparable. But certainly looking at the Mosquito rebuilds or the Duxford Beaufighter it's going to be a long term job. It's worth supporting, but only if you regard these restorations as interesting ongoing projects in their own right rather than as expensive preliminaries to seeing a Typhoon in the air.

I hadn't really thought about it in terms of an interesting project rather than an end in itself. On reflection that's an idea that I rather like though. I'll go and look at their website again and see how I might get a bit more involved.

[CanAm]

I've only just found out that RB 396 is actually being restored in the sleepy Sussex town where I live. I'll be sure to go along to their next open day in May!

Crosthwaite & Gardiner are only 2 miles away as well and I've been lucky enough to visit them a couple of times.

[Mutley]

Vlad the Imp said:

This thread has reminded me I've been meaning to ask a question here for a while. What are people's thoughts on the chances of the RB396 Typhoon restoration project being successful and leading to an airworthy Typhoon? I saw their stand at Biggin Hill airshow in the summer and spend some money on a few bits of merchandise as I've always been a fan of the Typhoon. However I was thinking about making a more significant donation as I'd love to see one fly again but would prefer not to spend money on a lost cause.

Any thoughts and knowledge from those that know about these things?

Knowing the team behind it, no money will be wasted in getting this done. They are also of the firm belief this isn't a quick piece of work. They have been in contact with Kermit Weekes about co-operation in their builds, although no formal arrangements are in place the idea of information/tech exchange is a good one.
I firmly believe RB396 will be flying again, but it'll be about 8 years of hard work

Why not visit them at Uckfield and have a chat on an open day? It's a members one in a couple of weeks (£25 for the year)
www.hawkertyphoon.com

[aeropilot]

dr_gn said:

Vlad the Imp said:

This thread has reminded me I've been meaning to ask a question here for a while. What are people's thoughts on the chances of the RB396 Typhoon restoration project being successful and leading to an airworthy Typhoon? I saw their stand at Biggin Hill airshow in the summer and spend some money on a few bits of merchandise as I've always been a fan of the Typhoon. However I was thinking about making a more significant donation as I'd love to see one fly again but would prefer not to spend money on a lost cause.

Any thoughts and knowledge from those that know about these things?

Look at the progress of Kermit Weeks’ Tempest V restoration, and look at his resources, then look at where the RB396 Typhoon guys are at and make your decision. Even with a huge injection of cash, there are still some massive hurdles to clear, I’d guess many related to the engine.

I'd say, exclusively related to the engine.

I'd love to see it happen, as I've always believed that aircraft should fly if possible, but I'm not convinced that an airworthy Sabre is possible. I seem to recall Kermit had one of his Sabre's at Ricardo Engineering for many years back in the early 90's, as they evaluated the possibility of an airworthy engine. I believe he eventually shipped the engine back to Florida? I've never seen any report of Ricardo's findings?

I would have thought a more realistic option would be along similar lines to Tony Agar's Mosquito NF.II rebuild, and get a complete and running example that at least could be fired up and maybe taxied at a suitable location, a bit like Champlin Fighter museum used to do with it's Fw190D.
At least people would get to hear what a Sabre sounds like without as much risk.

My maternal Grandfather worked at Napier's in Acton Vale for a short while after the war, before getting a job at nearby Vanderval, which lead to him making parts for the Vanwall racing cars for a while.

[anonymous-user]

CanAm said:

I've only just found out that RB 396 is actually being restored in the sleepy Sussex town where I live. I'll be sure to go along to their next open day in May!

Crosthwaite & Gardiner are only 2 miles away as well and I've been lucky enough to visit them a couple of times.

Fantastic that these fantastic projects are going on in a little industrial unit behind some houses.

You kind of expect them to be happening in hangars in duxford or somewhere.

[CanAm]

El stovey said:

Fantastic that these fantastic projects are going on in a little industrial unit behind some houses.

You kind of expect them to be happening in hangars in duxford or somewhere.

Warrior Race Engines used to be on the Industrial Estate as well. Walking past one day and a single-seater shot out of their unit, along the road and round the back again. We've also got Classic Cars of Kent with their little museum just down the road (in Sussex!) and Eagle E-Types hidden away too.

[Yertis]

aeropilot said:

I'd say, exclusively related to the engine.

I'd love to see it happen, as I've always believed that aircraft should fly if possible, but I'm not convinced that an airworthy Sabre is possible. I seem to recall Kermit had one of his Sabre's at Ricardo Engineering for many years back in the early 90's, as they evaluated the possibility of an airworthy engine. I believe he eventually shipped the engine back to Florida? I've never seen any report of Ricardo's findings?

Yes. Getting Sabres to work properly was tricky when they were new current with a body of knowledge about how to keep them sweet. I'll be extremely surprised if a flying Sabre ever happens. Closest we'll get to a Typhoon is a Sea Fury IMO. Not a Sabre but at least sounding like a Tempest II (I would guess).

[aeropilot]

Yertis said:

aeropilot said:

I'd say, exclusively related to the engine.

I'd love to see it happen, as I've always believed that aircraft should fly if possible, but I'm not convinced that an airworthy Sabre is possible. I seem to recall Kermit had one of his Sabre's at Ricardo Engineering for many years back in the early 90's, as they evaluated the possibility of an airworthy engine. I believe he eventually shipped the engine back to Florida? I've never seen any report of Ricardo's findings?

Yes. Getting Sabres to work properly was tricky when they were new current with a body of knowledge about how to keep them sweet. I'll be extremely surprised if a flying Sabre ever happens. Closest we'll get to a Typhoon is a Sea Fury IMO. Not a Sabre but at least sounding like a Tempest II (I would guess).

And even then, the continual operating issues today with sleeve valve Bristol Centaurus radials in those means that they are being re-engine with American radials.
Even Duxfords Fighter Collection, last year resorted to complete a re-engine of their Sea Fury T.20 from Centaurus to P&W R-2800 power in order to be able to fly it...!
While in its day the sleeve valve Centaurus was very reliable in operation, with a TBO interval significantly greater than an equivalent US radial, the problem today is the oil, or rather the total lack of it!
It needs a special type which was specifically developed for it and is no longer available. What is available now has proven time and time again to be inferior......normally with a rapid deterioration of the engine. Whether or not that could also be an issue for the Sabre I don't know?

[Yertis]

Googling around for pics of Griffon engined Typhoon or Tempest (which I'm sure I've seen somewhere but maybe not) I stumbled on this and now wish I had been concentrating on work. Makes my head hurt (although pretty simple once you focus on one cylinder).

[Eric Mc]

There was also the Hawker Tornado -



It was Rolls Royce Vulture powered, which explains why it never went into production.

[saaby93]

Yertis said:

Googling around for pics of Griffon engined Typhoon or Tempest (which I'm sure I've seen somewhere but maybe not) I stumbled on this and now wish I had been concentrating on work. Makes my head hurt (although pretty simple once you focus on one cylinder).

Is that really how it works?
Aren't the pistons mounted head to head in the same cylinder?

ETA oh yes that is right
I was thinking of a Deltic

Here's the way the cylinder valves work




ETA2 no i'm still confused
Yertis

Edited by saaby93 on Monday 16th April 16:33

[FourWheelDrift]

Here's the two videos of Kermit Weeks visit to Booker/West Wycombe Bucks in 2015 to check on his Sabre engined Mk V Typhoon.

Part 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0PUeUok0mI
Part 2 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKcgg3JkU_8

[dr_gn]

saaby93 said:

Yertis said:

Googling around for pics of Griffon engined Typhoon or Tempest (which I'm sure I've seen somewhere but maybe not) I stumbled on this and now wish I had been concentrating on work. Makes my head hurt (although pretty simple once you focus on one cylinder).

Is that really how it works?
Aren't the pistons mounted head to head in the same cylinder?

ETA oh yes that is right
I was thinking of a Deltic

Here's the way the cylinder valves work




ETA2 no i'm still confused
Yertis

Edited by saaby93 on Monday 16th April 16:33

How come the exhuast port isn't open when the piston is on the out stroke?

[Ayahuasca]

Hold on, do the cylinders oscillate as well as the pistons?

[saaby93]

Ayahuasca said:

Hold on, do the cylinders oscillate as well as the pistons?

Its not what I was expecting
I thought the cylinders rotated all the way round as the pistons slid up and down inside them
I didnt know they were operated by an arm so moved longitudinally and rotated back and for
Thats not to say that they didnt - just that I didnt realise it had that extra complexity
Amazing