How to fix the Southern Rail dispute?
Discussion
NomduJour said:
It was a (pretty successful) attempt to minimise union interference, not eliminate it.
Maybe nowadays the safety regulator might rationally decide that the public wouldn’t need the “reassurance” of some bloke pretending to do something.
Are you basing the last paragraph on your own job description?Maybe nowadays the safety regulator might rationally decide that the public wouldn’t need the “reassurance” of some bloke pretending to do something.
gooner1 said:
NomduJour said:
It was a (pretty successful) attempt to minimise union interference, not eliminate it.
Maybe nowadays the safety regulator might rationally decide that the public wouldn’t need the “reassurance” of some bloke pretending to do something.
Are you basing the last paragraph on your own job description?Maybe nowadays the safety regulator might rationally decide that the public wouldn’t need the “reassurance” of some bloke pretending to do something.
You reap what you sow...
legzr1 said:
NomduJour said:
I don't give a stuff to be perfectly honest .
Nor me.That's why I couldn't be arsed to read the rest of your post and have decided you're wrong.
Here's some more people that don't give a stuff.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42322086
legzr1 said:
The Cambrian trials are for the testing and possible implementation of ERTMS and I'm sure you'll have heard about the ongoing issues but you seem to be correlating an automatic in-cab signalling system designed to increase (much needed) capacity on a Victorian railway system with driverless trains.
Thought the new Thameslink Core and Crossrail were going to have a higher level of ERTMS with ATO. Obviously still carrying a driver, but effectively reduced to the level of a guard - open/shut the doors & press the start button.Edit to add - Admittedly this is ATO on basically the tunnel sections and a little bit either end - the open air stuff is still going to be manually driven, but it's a first & I wouldn't be surprised if the Great Eastern & Great Western bits of Crossrail got ERTMS/ATO before too long, especially as the Automatic Train Protection kit on the Great Western will presumably need replaced at some point.
Edited by alangla on Tuesday 12th December 15:17
alangla said:
Thought the new Thameslink Core and Crossrail were going to have a higher level of ERTMS with ATO. Obviously still carrying a driver, but effectively reduced to the level of a guard - open/shut the doors & press the start button.
Edit to add - Admittedly this is ATO on basically the tunnel sections and a little bit either end - the open air stuff is still going to be manually driven, but it's a first & I wouldn't be surprised if the Great Eastern & Great Western bits of Crossrail got ERTMS/ATO before too long, especially as the Automatic Train Protection kit on the Great Western will presumably need replaced at some point.
Your edit gets to the crux of 'full automation' - the lines this will work on are admittedly intensive and extremely busy but they're a tiny fraction of the network as a whole. ERTMS makes sense within these areas but it's no little leap to roll out on the ECML for example.Edit to add - Admittedly this is ATO on basically the tunnel sections and a little bit either end - the open air stuff is still going to be manually driven, but it's a first & I wouldn't be surprised if the Great Eastern & Great Western bits of Crossrail got ERTMS/ATO before too long, especially as the Automatic Train Protection kit on the Great Western will presumably need replaced at some point.
Edited by alangla on Tuesday 12th December 15:17
And still, a qualified driver is required for when it all goes wrong. Until ctrl alt del saves the days this will alway be the case.
Some of the responses, flol. ERTMS is never meant to remove the driver, the core principles is removing of signals and essentially doing away with track circuits there fore you can run a lot more trains on the line as essentially the entire railway in theory would be permissiblely worked , so trains running alot closer to each other, also the 125mph limit could safely be raised in places to 140. Due to in cab signalling. As human eyes can cope with accurately reading signals in time at plus speeds of 125mph.
As I understand crossrail drivers will operate the train in full manual mode from Reading to Paddington, as this is network rail lines using 3/4 aspect signalling there is no provision to run ATO on these lines. It will run ATO in the tunnels as per most LU rolling stock then revert back to driver operation once back on network rail lines.
Media loves sticking the boot in the TOCs and largely they deserve it as management in TOCs is borderline hopeless at best f
king criminal at worse.
Still Captain Grayling to the rescue .......()
As I understand crossrail drivers will operate the train in full manual mode from Reading to Paddington, as this is network rail lines using 3/4 aspect signalling there is no provision to run ATO on these lines. It will run ATO in the tunnels as per most LU rolling stock then revert back to driver operation once back on network rail lines.
Media loves sticking the boot in the TOCs and largely they deserve it as management in TOCs is borderline hopeless at best f
king criminal at worse. Still Captain Grayling to the rescue .......(
)3.6% annual increase due in January
14% fare increase on top of that.
potential 17.6% fare increase in total.
People who bought Southern-Only season tickets now can't travel because the trains are all Thameslink. But not all services have been replace by Thameslink so you could end up going to work on a Thameslink train and coming home on a Southern train.
Not exactly very 'seamless'.
14% fare increase on top of that.
potential 17.6% fare increase in total.
People who bought Southern-Only season tickets now can't travel because the trains are all Thameslink. But not all services have been replace by Thameslink so you could end up going to work on a Thameslink train and coming home on a Southern train.
Not exactly very 'seamless'.
ashleyman said:
3.6% annual increase due in January
14% fare increase on top of that.
potential 17.6% fare increase in total.
People who bought Southern-Only season tickets now can't travel because the trains are all Thameslink. But not all services have been replace by Thameslink so you could end up going to work on a Thameslink train and coming home on a Southern train.
Not exactly very 'seamless'.
This nonsense will continue until the railways are subjected to fair competition.14% fare increase on top of that.
potential 17.6% fare increase in total.
People who bought Southern-Only season tickets now can't travel because the trains are all Thameslink. But not all services have been replace by Thameslink so you could end up going to work on a Thameslink train and coming home on a Southern train.
Not exactly very 'seamless'.
I guess the magic money tree can fix all the issues with maintenance on the track etc tbh count yourself lucky they don't raise revenue to truly cover their costs otherwise there would be even more frothing than usual.
Railways are at bursting point , however as a side point Southern drivers have let them selves down massively, by constantly banging the it's not money it's the safety drum and then accepting it when the pay rise is right you've made drivers look like the feckless idiots the media want us to be. Most of my GWR colleagues I've spoken to think Southern drivers are aholes given we have a few southern drivers in the mess at Reading occasionally I had heard some fracas between the two.
My personal opinion is ditto to the ahole comment. Sadly that is ASLEF all over, makes out it's good and really they are s who want to line their pockets, sometimes I think I should be In RMT.....lol just as bad tbh
Railways are at bursting point , however as a side point Southern drivers have let them selves down massively, by constantly banging the it's not money it's the safety drum and then accepting it when the pay rise is right you've made drivers look like the feckless idiots the media want us to be. Most of my GWR colleagues I've spoken to think Southern drivers are a
holes given we have a few southern drivers in the mess at Reading occasionally I had heard some fracas between the two. My personal opinion is ditto to the a
hole comment. Sadly that is ASLEF all over, makes out it's good and really they are s who want to line their pockets, sometimes I think I should be In RMT.....lol just as bad tbhThat's the thing innit. Funny as fk listening to people from outside the railway drone on about union power. When you're inside the railway you're only too well aware what a self-serving bunch of useless fks the average union reps are. As long as management tickle their tummy and throw them a bone every so often the last thing they want to do is disturb their extraordinarily comfy and self-perpetuating status quo
k listening to people from outside the railway drone on about union power. When you're inside the railway you're only too well aware what a self-serving bunch of useless fks the average union reps are. As long as management tickle their tummy and throw them a bone every so often the last thing they want to do is disturb their extraordinarily comfy and self-perpetuating status quoNik da Greek said:
That's the thing innit. Funny as fk listening to people from outside the railway drone on about union power. When you're inside the railway you're only too well aware what a self-serving bunch of useless fks the average union reps are. As long as management tickle their tummy and throw them a bone every so often the last thing they want to do is disturb their extraordinarily comfy and self-perpetuating status quo
I hear where you're coming from but luckily there are some good reps out there. Spread thinly maybe but they are out there.k listening to people from outside the railway drone on about union power. When you're inside the railway you're only too well aware what a self-serving bunch of useless fks the average union reps are. As long as management tickle their tummy and throw them a bone every so often the last thing they want to do is disturb their extraordinarily comfy and self-perpetuating status quoanonymous said:
[redacted]
Not my area so can't say for definite what the issues are but, in my experience, issues are down to two things - NR making a total balls-up at the planning stage with any late changes not being forwarded to other agencies and sub-contractors playing pass the buck with blame.It's as frustrating for those on the front line as it is for paying passengers let me assure you.
legzr1 said:
I hear where you're coming from but luckily there are some good reps out there. Spread thinly maybe but they are out there.
There are? Wow. I seen a rubber plant and a house fly but...I'm afraid I have to go along with the cliche nowadays. ASLEF membership represents nothing more than the world's most expensive diary purchasing scheme
Nik da Greek said:
There are? Wow. I seen a rubber plant and a house fly but...I'm afraid I have to go along with the cliche nowadays. ASLEF membership represents nothing more than the world's most expensive diary purchasing scheme
One is a contributor to this thread
Perhaps it's another north/south devide - people up here seem to actually care.
Granted, things seem to go awry when you step up to EC level but I'm not privy to those discussions.
Nik da Greek said:
When you're inside the railway you're only too well aware what a self-serving bunch of useless fks the average union reps are. As long as management tickle their tummy and throw them a bone every so often the last thing they want to do is disturb their extraordinarily comfy and self-perpetuating status quo
Don't like it ?ks the average union reps are. As long as management tickle their tummy and throw them a bone every so often the last thing they want to do is disturb their extraordinarily comfy and self-perpetuating status quoHave you stood for election to be a rep ?
Things look very different from the other side.
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