Discussion
surveyor said:
A twin engine jet has to be capable of taking off from V1 (the decision point, after which the pilot is only stopping if the plane will not fly - eg the wings fallen off) onwards, on a single engine. The result is any large twin engine jet has huge engines... On two they will really fly....
On the PPRUNE thread there were some wild idea's of ferrying the airplane on a single engine. The problem being that until there is enough air going over the rudder it will be ineffective. Feed the power on the working engine to get to take off speed, your heading off the runway due to the unequal thrust... It's never going to work.
I'm a commercial helicopter pilot myself, so we have the theoretical Perfomance class 1 requirements aswell.....although we are allowed to enter into performance class 2 when taking off or landing offshore. My buddy on the 777 mentioned it could safely climb at max Auw at some still very impressive roc, think he mentioned >2000' per min but I may be wrong. I was very impressed anyway.....although he'll never beat my S92s angle of climb On the PPRUNE thread there were some wild idea's of ferrying the airplane on a single engine. The problem being that until there is enough air going over the rudder it will be ineffective. Feed the power on the working engine to get to take off speed, your heading off the runway due to the unequal thrust... It's never going to work.
I wonder how much this has cost them...
Landing fee's.
Fuel to fly A330 retrieval flight.
Compensation for A330 cancelled ex New York.
Compensation for 777 delayed/re-routed passengers.
1 x engine.
1x Anatov 124 Hire (query - will they need it again to retrieve the old engine.. presumably not scrapped?)
Engineers + equipment eg tent
When repaired - getting crew on-site
Fuel to fly plane to somewhere useful...
Not a cheap failure....
Landing fee's.
Fuel to fly A330 retrieval flight.
Compensation for A330 cancelled ex New York.
Compensation for 777 delayed/re-routed passengers.
1 x engine.
1x Anatov 124 Hire (query - will they need it again to retrieve the old engine.. presumably not scrapped?)
Engineers + equipment eg tent
When repaired - getting crew on-site
Fuel to fly plane to somewhere useful...
Not a cheap failure....
Some photos of the engine change here: https://twitter.com/BonzBrooks
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
No. The Diversion (under Perf A Rules) can be 90 minutes away (longer under ETOPS).
The last time I looked, 90 minutes was 30 minutes longer than 60 minutes!
But presumably you would not fly past one suitable airport because another one an hour longer away looked more suitable....The last time I looked, 90 minutes was 30 minutes longer than 60 minutes!
surveyor said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
No. The Diversion (under Perf A Rules) can be 90 minutes away (longer under ETOPS).
The last time I looked, 90 minutes was 30 minutes longer than 60 minutes!
But presumably you would not fly past one suitable airport because another one an hour longer away looked more suitable....The last time I looked, 90 minutes was 30 minutes longer than 60 minutes!
It's more to do with picking a routing which keeps you within the 60/90/whatever distance from airfields,
peter tdci said:
Some photos of the engine change here: https://twitter.com/BonzBrooks
Some amazing photos there, especially the one of the casing opened up!Ginetta G15 Girl said:
belleair302 said:
at a WW2 Bomber base and minor airport in Goose Bay.
Goose was built originally not as a bomber base but as a transit base for a/c transiting across the pond to UK in WW2.It's hardly a 'minor airport', indeed it's not even an 'airport' buta military airfield.
It was extended post WW2 for use by SAC and latterly was the host to the RAF, Luftwaffe and Italian Air Force for Operational Low lying Training.
king roasting in summer. Forest fires are quite common. Bulldog club was pretty good. Incidentally it is that long it was designated as a reserve place for the us space shuttle to land in an emergency.
Ruby you can quote Wiki at me until you are red in the face.
But you are wrong.
Performance A Criteria quite clearly state 90 minutes still air flying time.
Now, I have over 6500 Military Flying Hours, most of which are on Performance A aircraft. I was an Instructor on Performance A aircraft.
How many hours do you have?
But you are wrong.
Performance A Criteria quite clearly state 90 minutes still air flying time.
Now, I have over 6500 Military Flying Hours, most of which are on Performance A aircraft. I was an Instructor on Performance A aircraft.
How many hours do you have?
That's not a quote from 'wiki' but lifted directly from the CAA website.
Funnily enough I also have around 6500hrs, all commercial, mainly Boeing types including the 777 being discussed in this thread, a large portion of which were in ETOPS conditions ie greater than one hour flight time from an adequate airfield. Happy?
Apologies to everyone else for the thread drift
Funnily enough I also have around 6500hrs, all commercial, mainly Boeing types including the 777 being discussed in this thread, a large portion of which were in ETOPS conditions ie greater than one hour flight time from an adequate airfield. Happy?
Apologies to everyone else for the thread drift
'Performance A' basically relates wrt aircraft engine out performance.
Simplistically a Performance A aircraft can safely reject a Take Off below V1 and stop following the loss of the 'most critical power unit'.
Above V1, following the loss of the most critical power unit, then the a/c will reach its screen height (50ft old a/c, 35ft modern a/c) and V2 (engine out speed that gives the best angle of climb) by the end of the TODA (Take Off Distance Available - a maximum of 1.5x TORA Take Off Run Available). It will then be able to climb to and maintain single engine out stabilising altitude, carry out a cruise to destination, make an Instrument Approach and reject it, followed by a visual approach followed by a diversion to a nominated diversion airfield.
Of cours, in reality, if it had gone that horribly wrong you'd throw it on the ground PDQ!
Simplistically a Performance A aircraft can safely reject a Take Off below V1 and stop following the loss of the 'most critical power unit'.
Above V1, following the loss of the most critical power unit, then the a/c will reach its screen height (50ft old a/c, 35ft modern a/c) and V2 (engine out speed that gives the best angle of climb) by the end of the TODA (Take Off Distance Available - a maximum of 1.5x TORA Take Off Run Available). It will then be able to climb to and maintain single engine out stabilising altitude, carry out a cruise to destination, make an Instrument Approach and reject it, followed by a visual approach followed by a diversion to a nominated diversion airfield.
Of cours, in reality, if it had gone that horribly wrong you'd throw it on the ground PDQ!
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Monday 6th February 23:56
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