PPL(H) - anyone done it?
Discussion
Yep had mine for about 9 years now. Expensive but oh so much fun. I did mine in Robinson R22, but look at Schweizer 300 or Guimbal Cabri for PPL(H)
Worth getting a Class 2 medical done, just to make sure you are actually fit enough to fly. I recommend getting Air Law exam passed first as usually it is a requirement for 1st solo. Look at passing the RT exam too so then you know what radio calls to make etc.
Never pay a lump sum of money up front as all too often these flight centres disappear. 45hrs is minimum but realistically budget at more like 50-55hrs. In the UK the weather can be unpredictable so be prepared for waiting at the flight centre for weather to get better or just for your lesson to be cancelled.
Takes up a lot of time, and you need to do a min of 2hrs + 1hr exam (check ride) each year to keep up your licence.
Go with a smaller airfield e.g. not busy commercial as you will spend too much time taxi/orbiting for landing as commercial always take preference over little helis.
Worth getting a Class 2 medical done, just to make sure you are actually fit enough to fly. I recommend getting Air Law exam passed first as usually it is a requirement for 1st solo. Look at passing the RT exam too so then you know what radio calls to make etc.
Never pay a lump sum of money up front as all too often these flight centres disappear. 45hrs is minimum but realistically budget at more like 50-55hrs. In the UK the weather can be unpredictable so be prepared for waiting at the flight centre for weather to get better or just for your lesson to be cancelled.
Takes up a lot of time, and you need to do a min of 2hrs + 1hr exam (check ride) each year to keep up your licence.
Go with a smaller airfield e.g. not busy commercial as you will spend too much time taxi/orbiting for landing as commercial always take preference over little helis.
trickywoo said:
Thanks. Interesting.
Not sure I'd be any good on that little. I feel rusty getting the motorbike out in spring following 4k miles (80 / 90 hrs at a guess) the previous season.
Yep it is a bit hard, but most flying clubs will do a check ride with an instructor before letting you go up on your own with low yearly flying time. Plus you need to do 3 landing and 3 takeoffs within 3 months before taking passengers up too.Not sure I'd be any good on that little. I feel rusty getting the motorbike out in spring following 4k miles (80 / 90 hrs at a guess) the previous season.
trickywoo said:
I know nothing about it but thought 2 hrs a year sounded very, very little when you may only have had 50 to be certified in the first place.
What is the annual minimum?
The insurance and/or club requirements will be a lot tighter than this, I fly fixed and the currency requirement is a flight within the last 30 days or a checkride with an instructor (which is usually just once around the circuit).What is the annual minimum?
5150 said:
Would love to, but the general concencus is 'deep pockets required' !
Like with fixed wing flying, it's worth taking into account use of aircraft after gaining the licence. Does the flight school offer hire outside of training? Syndicate memberships available?
Syndicate memberships are less common with helicopters than fixed wing. Presumably if you can afford to fly helicopters regularly you want to buy your own and land it in the garden.Like with fixed wing flying, it's worth taking into account use of aircraft after gaining the licence. Does the flight school offer hire outside of training? Syndicate memberships available?
I started learning in 1999 just after joining the RAF as avionics ground crew (have hay fever so can't be a pilot for the raf), I managed 15 hours at a place called heliair in Nottingham. I was paying about £250 an hour then for an R22.
I met someone and gave it up as I couldn't afford it.
I wanted to do it as a career but soon discovered that most commercial helicopter pilots in the UK are ex military, mainly down on the cost of going commercial (I reckoned even doing some of it in America or South Africa I still need £50k assuming you pass everything first time).
If you just want to do it for the sake of it I would say you need very deep pockets. Just passing and maintaining the minimum number of hours a year to stay current is also a stupid idea. Helicopters bite and normally fatally and I don't think your competent of safe if your doing 5-10 hours a y at just trying to stay current.
If you have deep pockets and can afford to do it then by all means it's a great hobbie. As for buying helicopters and maintaining them then I would take a seat before looking at the prices.
R22s need a full overhaul at 2000 hours I believe my instructor at the time said and the cost of the overhaul was near as dam it 50 % of the new purchase price. I imagine 20 years down the line the price has only gone up.
I met someone and gave it up as I couldn't afford it.
I wanted to do it as a career but soon discovered that most commercial helicopter pilots in the UK are ex military, mainly down on the cost of going commercial (I reckoned even doing some of it in America or South Africa I still need £50k assuming you pass everything first time).
If you just want to do it for the sake of it I would say you need very deep pockets. Just passing and maintaining the minimum number of hours a year to stay current is also a stupid idea. Helicopters bite and normally fatally and I don't think your competent of safe if your doing 5-10 hours a y at just trying to stay current.
If you have deep pockets and can afford to do it then by all means it's a great hobbie. As for buying helicopters and maintaining them then I would take a seat before looking at the prices.
R22s need a full overhaul at 2000 hours I believe my instructor at the time said and the cost of the overhaul was near as dam it 50 % of the new purchase price. I imagine 20 years down the line the price has only gone up.
Helicopters are magical, totally addictive, very clever, but unfortunately fairly costly.
Finances aside, the most important issue is the training school, helicopter type and your personal instructor.
If you are fortunate enough to be planning to buy your own helicopter, then you would be wise to try a few, take advice and learn on your intended purchase.
When you get a clearer picture of your objectives, pop in here - http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads-23/
In the meantime, where in the UK are you based?
Finances aside, the most important issue is the training school, helicopter type and your personal instructor.
If you are fortunate enough to be planning to buy your own helicopter, then you would be wise to try a few, take advice and learn on your intended purchase.
When you get a clearer picture of your objectives, pop in here - http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads-23/
In the meantime, where in the UK are you based?
I got the majority of the way through my fixed wing PPL and then ran out of money. Don't expect to finish in 45 hours - Maybe you could if you did it solid in one good summer, but that was the exception rather than the rule.
Not sure of the legalities 100%, but one could get an airband radio and go to the airfield and listen to some radio work, lets you brush up for free rather than paying £200/hr. With a good antenna, you might even be able to get some at home.
Do the medical before you start or soon after, just to be safe. Do as much theory upfront as you can so it doesn't become a bottleneck later in your training.
Enjoy it. £200 bacon sandwich runs are by far the best bacon sandwich runs you can ever do.
Oh and don't pay for training in blocks upfront. No matter what the discount offered, no matter how un-shakeable the training company looks. Never pay up front.
Not sure of the legalities 100%, but one could get an airband radio and go to the airfield and listen to some radio work, lets you brush up for free rather than paying £200/hr. With a good antenna, you might even be able to get some at home.
Do the medical before you start or soon after, just to be safe. Do as much theory upfront as you can so it doesn't become a bottleneck later in your training.
Enjoy it. £200 bacon sandwich runs are by far the best bacon sandwich runs you can ever do.
Oh and don't pay for training in blocks upfront. No matter what the discount offered, no matter how un-shakeable the training company looks. Never pay up front.
pixelatedJH said:
I got the majority of the way through my fixed wing PPL and then ran out of money. Don't expect to finish in 45 hours - Maybe you could if you did it solid in one good summer, but that was the exception rather than the rule.
Not sure of the legalities 100%, but one could get an airband radio and go to the airfield and listen to some radio work, lets you brush up for free rather than paying £200/hr. With a good antenna, you might even be able to get some at home.
Do the medical before you start or soon after, just to be safe. Do as much theory upfront as you can so it doesn't become a bottleneck later in your training.
Enjoy it. £200 bacon sandwich runs are by far the best bacon sandwich runs you can ever do.
Oh and don't pay for training in blocks upfront. No matter what the discount offered, no matter how un-shakeable the training company looks. Never pay up front.
Reference the radio chatter it's streamed over the internet all be it not uk arc so no need to go buy a radio and listen at the airport. Additionally there are plenty of YouTube videos out there. Not sure of the legalities 100%, but one could get an airband radio and go to the airfield and listen to some radio work, lets you brush up for free rather than paying £200/hr. With a good antenna, you might even be able to get some at home.
Do the medical before you start or soon after, just to be safe. Do as much theory upfront as you can so it doesn't become a bottleneck later in your training.
Enjoy it. £200 bacon sandwich runs are by far the best bacon sandwich runs you can ever do.
Oh and don't pay for training in blocks upfront. No matter what the discount offered, no matter how un-shakeable the training company looks. Never pay up front.
Edited by Markbarry1977 on Tuesday 18th July 21:34
I already have my NPPL and have loads of hrs on microlights and fly about 120hrs / year . A couple of years ago I decided to go for the PPL(H) at the airfield I fly from. One of the attractions was that the instructor was a good mate of mine so I knew I would get good feedback about the likelyhood of completing the qualification in the minimum time on the club R22.
I stopped after 10hrs. It was quite expensive at about £300/hr but I knew that before I started. Having all the experience of flying already was so, so, so helpful and meant that I was fine with all the radio and navigation work as well as the general airmanship stuff and when we were in the circuit I was fairly comfortable.
After the 10hrs the instructor said he was confident I could get in the R22 alone, fly it away and bring it back safely on my own so the next step would have been the build-up to solo.
However, I actually found that I didn't enjoy flying the helicopter as much as I expected. We had flown it over to my house and landed it in the garden, which was obviously cool, but there was always far more nervous tension than I had experienced flying anything else and it was always a fairly expensive way of not having as much fun as I had hoped for so I decided to stop. It wasn't a waste of money or anything like that. I am glad I went as far as I did but I think you would have to fly far more than the minimum required to stay competent.
I stopped after 10hrs. It was quite expensive at about £300/hr but I knew that before I started. Having all the experience of flying already was so, so, so helpful and meant that I was fine with all the radio and navigation work as well as the general airmanship stuff and when we were in the circuit I was fairly comfortable.
After the 10hrs the instructor said he was confident I could get in the R22 alone, fly it away and bring it back safely on my own so the next step would have been the build-up to solo.
However, I actually found that I didn't enjoy flying the helicopter as much as I expected. We had flown it over to my house and landed it in the garden, which was obviously cool, but there was always far more nervous tension than I had experienced flying anything else and it was always a fairly expensive way of not having as much fun as I had hoped for so I decided to stop. It wasn't a waste of money or anything like that. I am glad I went as far as I did but I think you would have to fly far more than the minimum required to stay competent.
I got into helicopters thanks to my dad, he had a pplh and a ppla and was seeing the owner of the flying school which meant I spent my teens in and out of helicopters and all my life in planes (we've owned a few too) the only hard part of flying is hovering the rest of it imo is easy and so is hovering once you can do it,
Overall they're fun and they always cause a stir when landing somewhere nice, squires motorbike cafe has a landing pad and the Devonshire arms at Bolton abbey is a lovely place to fly Into! I also flew into the local jet ski club which caused a lot of attention! 😂
It is expensive to train though rough cost of an R22 is around 250+vat per hour and about 240 per hour if you book 10 upfront a cabri g2 is around 350 an hour and a R44 is around 420 per hour dual!
Self fly hire is a lot cheaper an R22 can be had for around £180-£200 per hour and a cabri around £280
I flew into my wedding in a as355 twin squirrel which was a lovely machine and more stable
Why part of the country are you in
Overall they're fun and they always cause a stir when landing somewhere nice, squires motorbike cafe has a landing pad and the Devonshire arms at Bolton abbey is a lovely place to fly Into! I also flew into the local jet ski club which caused a lot of attention! 😂
It is expensive to train though rough cost of an R22 is around 250+vat per hour and about 240 per hour if you book 10 upfront a cabri g2 is around 350 an hour and a R44 is around 420 per hour dual!
Self fly hire is a lot cheaper an R22 can be had for around £180-£200 per hour and a cabri around £280
I flew into my wedding in a as355 twin squirrel which was a lovely machine and more stable
Why part of the country are you in
I think the OP has disappeared - possibly put off by the expense? And there is no escaping the cost.
The 45 hr course is the basic minimum, and most people actually take 60-70+ hrs to achieve the required skill levels to pass the test. This isn't a bad thing. Helicopter flying is a continuous learning process and the foundations come from thorough training and understanding - not just of flying, but also the wider practices and procedures. Savour the learning.
Getting the Licence is only the beginning. Thereafter, the target should be at least 50 hrs pa to progress. And, most low hours pilots will wisely still spend quite a lot of time with their instructors to further improve their experience and more advanced skills.
Robinsons (R22s) are often the default choice for training, as they are the cheapest and most common, with a natural progression to R44 and R66. However, the R22 was never designed to be a 'trainer' - it was Frank's dream of a low cost helicopter - and they do have their detractors. The Hughes/Schweizer/Sikorsky 269/300 was designed as a trainer - for the US Army who trained 30,000 pilots, clocking up 3 million hours in them. Far more sophisticated, but more expensive and not many operators in the UK have them.
It's the new Cabri G2 http://www.heligroup.com/cabri2/ that is gaining popularity, and I see Heligroup at Kidlington have an 'Open Day' next Sunday (30 July) promoting it.
The 45 hr course is the basic minimum, and most people actually take 60-70+ hrs to achieve the required skill levels to pass the test. This isn't a bad thing. Helicopter flying is a continuous learning process and the foundations come from thorough training and understanding - not just of flying, but also the wider practices and procedures. Savour the learning.
Getting the Licence is only the beginning. Thereafter, the target should be at least 50 hrs pa to progress. And, most low hours pilots will wisely still spend quite a lot of time with their instructors to further improve their experience and more advanced skills.
Robinsons (R22s) are often the default choice for training, as they are the cheapest and most common, with a natural progression to R44 and R66. However, the R22 was never designed to be a 'trainer' - it was Frank's dream of a low cost helicopter - and they do have their detractors. The Hughes/Schweizer/Sikorsky 269/300 was designed as a trainer - for the US Army who trained 30,000 pilots, clocking up 3 million hours in them. Far more sophisticated, but more expensive and not many operators in the UK have them.
It's the new Cabri G2 http://www.heligroup.com/cabri2/ that is gaining popularity, and I see Heligroup at Kidlington have an 'Open Day' next Sunday (30 July) promoting it.
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