50 years since the end of steam on BR Southern Region

[K50 DEL]

Great thread Robin, cheers for posting, really enjoying these.

[MiniMan64]

Seems an appropriate place to post...




Been a v long time since I went to the NRM, my little boy seemed to enjoy it just as much as I did!

[Olf]

Can I offer these few pages as being well worth read. The last days of steam - maxing engines and drinking beer.

My dad on the left.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Steam-Final-Years...

[NDA]

rs1952 said:

The longer answers are...

Thanks for that.

There is a story going that the owner of Witley Park (excuse Wail link):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058772/Wi...

Had many of the original rail bridges built to enable him to bring statues to the park. I have no idea if it is true - but I live nearby and have heard it said many times.

[rs1952]

NDA said:

.

There is a story going that the owner of Witley Park had many of the original rail bridges built to enable him to bring statues to the park. I have no idea if it is true - but I live nearby and have heard it said many times.

Before I responded I posed your question to a group of people who should know about such quirks of history - the Southern Email Group. Its been over 24 hours since I asked and I have heard zilch - de nada - nothing. This suggests to me that this is one of those urban myths that abound throughout the UK and not just on the railway system - somebody sees a couple of things happening (eg a railway gets built and statues arrive at the local Big House by train) then adds 2 and 2 and gets 6. Then over the years the myth turns gradually into a sort of history that ain't quite true...

One that I am very familiar with is the closure of the Somerset & Dorset line between Bath and Bournemouth, where even the media when they produce a new piece on it reiterate that "the evil Western Region of BR ran the line down with the intention of closing it." A quick examination of the facts such as the loss of coal traffic as the North Somerset pits closed, the loss of passenger traffic to the roads, and the fact that they were still running to virtually the same timetable in 1965 as they were in 1922, lays let particular myth to rest, but it doesn't stop people believing it - especially those who want to believe it ...

In truth your scenario is unlikely because it wouldn't normally be necessary. On a double track railway (as this is) there is usually plenty of room to move large loads (usually called Out of Gauge loads). With worst case scenarios you would simply ensure that the other line was not occupied by trains at the time you were moving it/them, and use lots and lots of rope and chains..

All that said, if there was such a stipulation in the original land sale then an appropriate clause would have appeared in the land conveyance. If you are that interested you could trawl through the Kew Archives or the National Railway Archives at York museum to find out. Happy hunting

[rs1952]

The latest offering has been uploaded. Brockenhurst 50 years on - chance encounters:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/3570337...

For those on here who don't know much about railways and don't know where Brockenhurst is - if you've ever gone down to Lymingtom to get the Isle of Wight ferry it's where that bloody level crossing is

[Yertis]

rs1952 said:

One that I am very familiar with is the closure of the Somerset & Dorset line between Bath and Bournemouth, where even the media when they produce a new piece on it reiterate that "the evil Western Region of BR ran the line down with the intention of closing it." A quick examination of the facts such as the loss of coal traffic as the North Somerset pits closed, the loss of passenger traffic to the roads, and the fact that they were still running to virtually the same timetable in 1965 as they were in 1922, lays let particular myth to rest, but it doesn't stop people believing it - especially those who want to believe it ...

That's not correct though is it. The 1922 timetable included the through expresses, which the WR diverted away the line in1962 or whenever, and to which the local trains no longer connected. Not saying your other reasons aren't valid – the line was only ever barely viable. That said, it's sorely needed now.

[Gongoozler]

NDA said:

Thanks for that.

There is a story going that the owner of Witley Park (excuse Wail link):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058772/Wi...

Had many of the original rail bridges built to enable him to bring statues to the park. I have no idea if it is true - but I live nearby and have heard it said many times.

I had understood it that the road had to be lowered under a railway (think it was the Portsmouth Line near Liphook) as the statues were being brought up by road.

[NDA]

Gongoozler said:

NDA said:

Thanks for that.

There is a story going that the owner of Witley Park (excuse Wail link):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2058772/Wi...

Had many of the original rail bridges built to enable him to bring statues to the park. I have no idea if it is true - but I live nearby and have heard it said many times.

I had understood it that the road had to be lowered under a railway (think it was the Portsmouth Line near Liphook) as the statues were being brought up by road.

It could be that I guess.... stories get amplified over time.

[rs1952]

Yertis said:

rs1952 said:

One that I am very familiar with is the closure of the Somerset & Dorset line between Bath and Bournemouth, where even the media when they produce a new piece on it reiterate that "the evil Western Region of BR ran the line down with the intention of closing it." A quick examination of the facts such as the loss of coal traffic as the North Somerset pits closed, the loss of passenger traffic to the roads, and the fact that they were still running to virtually the same timetable in 1965 as they were in 1922, lays let particular myth to rest, but it doesn't stop people believing it - especially those who want to believe it ...

That's not correct though is it. The 1922 timetable included the through expresses, which the WR diverted away the line in1962 or whenever, and to which the local trains no longer connected. Not saying your other reasons aren't valid – the line was only ever barely viable. That said, it's sorely needed now.

As you know, we have had this discussion a few times on the Bristol Railway Archive, but just in case anybody on this forum now thinks I was talking a load of rubbish I'll have to expand on the matter I'll do it in bullet points to save typing a novel...

• Through traffic is not "your" traffic - it could equally as easily, indeed often more easily, use other routes. Just because "we've always done things this way" doesn't mean we should keep doing it that way. If it did, they'd still be towing trains out of Euston using a winding engine at the top of Camden bank

• Express trains were, as you say, diverted away from the S&D in 1962. In fact there was only one that ran all year round - the Pines Express - and that only called at Evercreech and Blandford. The Evercreech stop was mainly to attach and detach an assisting engine, although it did make a connection with the Highbridge branch - usually a one coach train and I have been on trains on that line when I was the only passenger. Through traffic to and from Blandford was marginal - if there was any money in it Blandford would still be served by rail. All the other "express" services ran on Summer Saturdays only. and that market too was contracting due to the growth of private motor transport.

• The diverted train served many more areas of high population ie. Oxford, Reading, Winchester and Southampton

• The diversion of the Pines was requested by the LMR. This document says so:

Edited to add that if any old eyes (like mine) have difficulty in deciphering that document, here is what is says. I would also add that the date of this memo, 23rd May 1962, predates the Beeching Report by almost a year:

COMMITTEE FOR THE REVIEW OF UNECONOMIC BRANCH LINES AND STATIONS

“Referring to the notes of the meeting held at Waterloo on 10th May, the item in respect of the Somerset & Dorset line should be amended to read as follows:

The Western Region are taking the initiative in preparing a joint submission to the respective Area Boards concerned, also to the Transport Users Consultative Committee, and the Line Manager, South Western Division, hopes very soon to submit a draft report in respect of the Southern Region portion to the Western Region. This recommends complete withdrawal of the passenger train service between Templecombe and Broadstone Junction and closure of the line between Templecombe (exclusive) and Blandford Forum (exclusive); the portion Blandford Forum (inclusive)/ Broadstone junction to be retained (single track only) and worked as a siding for freight traffic only. Arrangements would have to be made for inter-regional trains on Saturdays during the summer, to be diverted via alternative routes.

As from 10th September next, at the request of the London Midland region in connection with their electrification proposals, the “Pines Express” will be diverted via Basingstoke”

Edited by rs1952 on Monday 14th August 12:26

[Yertis]

rs1952 said:

Yertis said:

rs1952 said:

One that I am very familiar with is the closure of the Somerset & Dorset line between Bath and Bournemouth, where even the media when they produce a new piece on it reiterate that "the evil Western Region of BR ran the line down with the intention of closing it." A quick examination of the facts such as the loss of coal traffic as the North Somerset pits closed, the loss of passenger traffic to the roads, and the fact that they were still running to virtually the same timetable in 1965 as they were in 1922, lays let particular myth to rest, but it doesn't stop people believing it - especially those who want to believe it ...

That's not correct though is it. The 1922 timetable included the through expresses, which the WR diverted away the line in1962 or whenever, and to which the local trains no longer connected. Not saying your other reasons aren't valid – the line was only ever barely viable. That said, it's sorely needed now.

As you know, we have had this discussion a few times on the Bristol Railway Archive, but just in case anybody on this forum now thinks I was talking a load of rubbish I'll have to expand on the matter I'll do it in bullet points to save typing a novel...

• Through traffic is not "your" traffic - it could equally as easily, indeed often more easily, use other routes. Just because "we've always done things this way" doesn't mean we should keep doing it that way. If it did, they'd still be towing trains out of Euston using a winding engine at the top of Camden bank

• Express trains were, as you say, diverted away from the S&D in 1962. In fact there was only one that ran all year round - the Pines Express - and that only called at Evercreech and Blandford. The Evercreech stop was mainly to attach and detach an assisting engine, although it did make a connection with the Highbridge branch - usually a one coach train and I have been on trains on that line when I was the only passenger. Through traffic to and from Blandford was marginal - if there was any money in it Blandford would still be served by rail. All the other "express" services ran on Summer Saturdays only. and that market too was contracting due to the growth of private motor transport.

• The diverted train served many more areas of high population ie. Oxford, Reading, Winchester and Southampton

• The diversion of the Pines was requested by the LMR. This document says so:

Pah! These are mere facts.

[P5BNij]

This book looks like it's worth a punt...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Twilight-Southern-Steam-U...

[rs1952]

The latest 50-year comparison to be uploaded is of Bournemouth Central

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/3661188...

[rs1952]

Here's the latest. Weymouth 50 years on - trains to London

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/3672920...

[Flying Phil]

Great pictures on here. The picture of the Standard 5 reminded me of my last visit to Nine Elms in 1967 and this one was there. .

Yesterday I saw another one at Quorn Station on the GCR.

It has just been completed after a 20 year restoration and will be featured in the GCR October 5-8th Southern Gala, together with Unrebuilt 34081 "92 Squadron" from the NVR and rebuilt 34053 "Sir Keith Park" from the SVR.
Re the GCR they are making great progress on "Bridging the Gap" between the two preserved lines!

[rs1952]

Aha - Nine Elms 1967.

As they say, here's a few I made earlier:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/8473536...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/8690016...

[Yertis]

rs1952 said:

Aha - Nine Elms 1967.

As they say, here's a few I made earlier:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/8473536...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/8690016...

Has that West Country on the right had a collision? The buffer beam looks 'pushed back'.

[rs1952]

Yertis said:

rs1952 said:

Aha - Nine Elms 1967.

As they say, here's a few I made earlier:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/8473536...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/8690016...

Has that West Country on the right had a collision? The buffer beam looks 'pushed back'.

My old eyes can't see it (even when I blow up the original photograph) and my old brain doesn't remember the details.

However, 34002 was withdrawn in February 1967 and 34018 went on to the end, so something could well have been amiss with 34002.

[rs1952]

Thread resurrected because I have posted another comparison at Weymouth, including the arrival of the last steam hauled 0830ex-Waterloo on 8th July 1967.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/2629579...

[Flying Phil]

Another great pair of photographs - and the people/dress changes add to the comparison.