Are modern warships armour plated?
Discussion
230mph.......Have some of that!!!!
The Shkval-E is a high-speed unguided underwater missile produced by "Region" State Research & Production Enterprise of Tactical Missiles Corporation JSC. The weapon system can be installed on surface vessels and submarines, and can be launched at up to Sea State 4 from a water depth of 30m.
The underwater weapon weighs 2,700kg and carries high-explosive warhead (210kg TNT equivalent) with an impact proximity fuse.
The propulsion system consisting of hydro-reactive jet and solid-fuel rocket booster provides a high speed of over 200kt. The torpedo has an effective launch range of 7km and cruising range of 10km.
The Shkval-E is a high-speed unguided underwater missile produced by "Region" State Research & Production Enterprise of Tactical Missiles Corporation JSC. The weapon system can be installed on surface vessels and submarines, and can be launched at up to Sea State 4 from a water depth of 30m.
The underwater weapon weighs 2,700kg and carries high-explosive warhead (210kg TNT equivalent) with an impact proximity fuse.
The propulsion system consisting of hydro-reactive jet and solid-fuel rocket booster provides a high speed of over 200kt. The torpedo has an effective launch range of 7km and cruising range of 10km.
Have we had the 16" Gunned Armoured WWII Battleship versus modern Frigate/Destroyer debate.
Frigate doing 40 knots or whatever they do lobing super accurate 4" shells at 20 a minute into the battleship.
Versus slug doing 20 knots firing huge salvo once every 30 seconds.
Obviously one hit from a 16" projectile will probably do for the Frigate but could the Battleship hit it
whilst under a constant rain of small projectiles aimed at specific areas with great accuracy?
Frigate doing 40 knots or whatever they do lobing super accurate 4" shells at 20 a minute into the battleship.
Versus slug doing 20 knots firing huge salvo once every 30 seconds.
Obviously one hit from a 16" projectile will probably do for the Frigate but could the Battleship hit it
whilst under a constant rain of small projectiles aimed at specific areas with great accuracy?
Last US battleship class against the latest US destroyer class in full service.
Guns only?
The 33 knot USS Iowa firing 9x16" shells of 24.300 lb total weight over 24 miles twice every minute - vs - the 30 knot USS Arleigh Burke firing 1x5" shells of 70 lbs total weight over 13 miles 16-20 times a minute.
If you have the range and the speed you control the battle. The destroyer would not be able to get close enough.
Guns only?
The 33 knot USS Iowa firing 9x16" shells of 24.300 lb total weight over 24 miles twice every minute - vs - the 30 knot USS Arleigh Burke firing 1x5" shells of 70 lbs total weight over 13 miles 16-20 times a minute.
If you have the range and the speed you control the battle. The destroyer would not be able to get close enough.
peterperkins said:
Have we had the 16" Gunned Armoured WWII Battleship versus modern Frigate/Destroyer debate.
Frigate doing 40 knots or whatever they do lobing super accurate 4" shells at 20 a minute into the battleship.
Versus slug doing 20 knots firing huge salvo once every 30 seconds.
Obviously one hit from a 16" projectile will probably do for the Frigate but could the Battleship hit it
whilst under a constant rain of small projectiles aimed at specific areas with great accuracy?
A modern frigate achieving 40 knots?Frigate doing 40 knots or whatever they do lobing super accurate 4" shells at 20 a minute into the battleship.
Versus slug doing 20 knots firing huge salvo once every 30 seconds.
Obviously one hit from a 16" projectile will probably do for the Frigate but could the Battleship hit it
whilst under a constant rain of small projectiles aimed at specific areas with great accuracy?
Nanook said:
jkh112 said:
Nanook, I am not sure why you are being so argumentative.
These lessons are not implemented as effectively as possible because to do so would introduce space constraint, weight and cost penalties which would be prohibitive to the customer being able to afford the ship.
The level of self defence, armour, shock rating, captivity etc is determined through a balance of what threats the ship is expected to see against what can be achieved within budget. It is rare for the absolute perfect best possible design to be produced because if it was then it would be unaffordable. I am not saying that the modern warships are not optimised because they are but that optimisation takes place within certain constraints.
I presume from your job you are familiar with the requirement for certain items to remain captive. The level at which they have to remain captive varies according to customer budget, customer requirement, mass of the item, location of item, criticality of item etc. Hence some items have a higher captivity requirement than others even onboard the same vessel.
I'm not intending to be argumentative, I'm just trying to discuss facts. There is a lot of nonsense being spouted in this thread, by people that don't really know what they're talking about it seems.These lessons are not implemented as effectively as possible because to do so would introduce space constraint, weight and cost penalties which would be prohibitive to the customer being able to afford the ship.
The level of self defence, armour, shock rating, captivity etc is determined through a balance of what threats the ship is expected to see against what can be achieved within budget. It is rare for the absolute perfect best possible design to be produced because if it was then it would be unaffordable. I am not saying that the modern warships are not optimised because they are but that optimisation takes place within certain constraints.
I presume from your job you are familiar with the requirement for certain items to remain captive. The level at which they have to remain captive varies according to customer budget, customer requirement, mass of the item, location of item, criticality of item etc. Hence some items have a higher captivity requirement than others even onboard the same vessel.
The clue is usually in the first line. "I don't know for sure but", "I'm no expert but" and "I'm guessing but"
King Herald said:
tuffer said:
My understanding was that modern torpedos explode beneath the ship and create a huge gas bubble that lifts the ship out of the water and breaks its back, no amount of armour is going to help with that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c--fP017Xoc
I think it is more a huge shock wave than just a bubble. That is much like the way depth charges work: huge shock wave cracks and splits and damages subs. FourWheelDrift said:
Last US battleship class against the latest US destroyer class in full service.
Guns only?
The 33 knot USS Iowa firing 9x16" shells of 24.300 lb total weight over 24 miles twice every minute - vs - the 30 knot USS Arleigh Burke firing 1x5" shells of 70 lbs total weight over 13 miles 16-20 times a minute.
If you have the range and the speed you control the battle. The destroyer would not be able to get close enough.
Didn't Warspite prove what happens when Destroyes get into a gun battle with a Battleship? Guns only?
The 33 knot USS Iowa firing 9x16" shells of 24.300 lb total weight over 24 miles twice every minute - vs - the 30 knot USS Arleigh Burke firing 1x5" shells of 70 lbs total weight over 13 miles 16-20 times a minute.
If you have the range and the speed you control the battle. The destroyer would not be able to get close enough.
V8 Fettler said:
A modern frigate achieving 40 knots?
OK I picked that number out of the air. However can the battleship hit the destroyer.
I assume the fire control and accuracy of the 5" destroyer means it could fire a shell through the gunnery control tower slits and also eliminate the battleship bridge in the first ten seconds.
peterperkins said:
V8 Fettler said:
A modern frigate achieving 40 knots?
OK I picked that number out of the air. However can the battleship hit the destroyer.
I assume the fire control and accuracy of the 5" destroyer means it could fire a shell through the gunnery control tower slits and also eliminate the battleship bridge in the first ten seconds.
peterperkins said:
V8 Fettler said:
A modern frigate achieving 40 knots?
OK I picked that number out of the air. However can the battleship hit the destroyer.
I assume the fire control and accuracy of the 5" destroyer means it could fire a shell through the gunnery control tower slits and also eliminate the battleship bridge in the first ten seconds.
I had an afternoon exploring the USS Alabama, in Mobile, a few years ago. Very impressive and well worth a visit next time you pass through...
http://www.ussalabama.com/
http://www.ussalabama.com/
V8 Fettler said:
I doubt if any modern warship would choose to slug it out at (relatively) close range with a WW2 battleship. Arleigh Burke probably has Harpoon or similar.
Modern warship launches helicopter at max range loaded with ASM, rinse an repeat a few times plus lob a few SSM's and the Battleship is a mission kill without it ever detecting its opponent, let alone getting a salvo off.Of course in real life if anyone was stupid enough to field a battleship fleet the response would be the same as at the end of WW2 - subs and/or carriers, not destroyers. See Taffy 3 for an example of what happens when even a powerful armoured (battleship and cruiser) force fights a weak carrier force.
mikal83 said:
Stick to your x box games boys ffs
A bit harsh for many posters who are interested but not expert.Anyway, I suspect that many aspects of current and future conflicts will be very like X Box games with drones UAVs and robots..... and inevitably, real people paying with blood and their lives.
mikal83 said:
King Herald said:
mikal83 said:
Stick to your x box games boys ffs
Hail to the guru, we are not worthy. Happy?
At anything?
King Herald said:
mikal83 said:
King Herald said:
mikal83 said:
Stick to your x box games boys ffs
Hail to the guru, we are not worthy. Happy?
At anything?
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