How much does it cost to raise a railway bridge?
Discussion
eccles said:
saaby93 said:
There should already be height warning signs at the beginning of the road, or where there is a suitable turning around point.
Isnt that where over height detectors usualy go? Unless the trucks need to use the stretch of road for access eg to the railway
They don't work.Isnt that where over height detectors usualy go? Unless the trucks need to use the stretch of road for access eg to the railway
I live near a town called Needham Market in Suffolk that has a low bridge, it's got several sets of signs leading up to it (in the old days it also had 'don't follow sat nav' signs as well), and two or three times a week you get lorries or vans trying to reverse back and causing chaos in the area.
What about the height detector and traffic light idea some posters quoted?
saaby93 said:
eccles said:
saaby93 said:
There should already be height warning signs at the beginning of the road, or where there is a suitable turning around point.
Isnt that where over height detectors usualy go? Unless the trucks need to use the stretch of road for access eg to the railway
They don't work.Isnt that where over height detectors usualy go? Unless the trucks need to use the stretch of road for access eg to the railway
I live near a town called Needham Market in Suffolk that has a low bridge, it's got several sets of signs leading up to it (in the old days it also had 'don't follow sat nav' signs as well), and two or three times a week you get lorries or vans trying to reverse back and causing chaos in the area.
What about the height detector and traffic light idea some posters quoted?
Where I went to school in Wales they have a low bridge (used to be known in school as the single decker bus factory as so many double deckers hit it!), after trying various signs etc they went for the radar controlled flashing lights. These were installed in the late 80's and did improve things, but thirty years later it's still happening a few time a year.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local-news/rail...
OpulentBob said:
You don't resurface directly over the old surface.
I suspect you mean "shouldn't" instead of "don't". Without wanting to distract the thread too much, I drove along a road today in Cheshire that, at the bottom of one of the many potholes, you can clearly see an old road surface complete with white lines where they've just stuck a new surface on top. Perhaps that's why the new surface is breaking up. (Nowhere near a low bridge though, so perhaps rules are different).Lessons should have been learned by anyone who ever watched Thomas The Tank Engine growing up.
Arrogant Bulgy the Bus gets stuck under a low bridge on the railway and then gets turned into a hen house because he's too damaged. Maybe this 5 minute children's story should be referenced more regularly to highlight the perils of low bridges?
Arrogant Bulgy the Bus gets stuck under a low bridge on the railway and then gets turned into a hen house because he's too damaged. Maybe this 5 minute children's story should be referenced more regularly to highlight the perils of low bridges?
droopsnoot said:
I suspect you mean "shouldn't" instead of "don't". Without wanting to distract the thread too much, I drove along a road today in Cheshire that, at the bottom of one of the many potholes, you can clearly see an old road surface complete with white lines where they've just stuck a new surface on top. Perhaps that's why the new surface is breaking up. (Nowhere near a low bridge though, so perhaps rules are different).
Indeed. We have a grade 2 listed bridge here in Bristol that didn't cause a problem until the road was resurfaced, reducing the height and it got spanged by a lorry. Been closed for 922 days now according to the website. Bristol council really not covering themselves with glory thereShakermaker said:
Lessons should have been learned by anyone who ever watched Thomas The Tank Engine growing up.
Arrogant Bulgy the Bus gets stuck under a low bridge on the railway and then gets turned into a hen house because he's too damaged. Maybe this 5 minute children's story should be referenced more regularly to highlight the perils of low bridges?
3:30Arrogant Bulgy the Bus gets stuck under a low bridge on the railway and then gets turned into a hen house because he's too damaged. Maybe this 5 minute children's story should be referenced more regularly to highlight the perils of low bridges?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWNFnNLz09s
Poor old Bulgy the Bus
Gets a reprieve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-bmGkAQv9U
Edited by saaby93 on Monday 14th May 14:27
Here's what happens when they hit the top slicer
http://www.altonherald.com/article.cfm?id=125532&a...
http://www.altonherald.com/article.cfm?id=125532&a...
shouldbworking said:
Indeed. We have a grade 2 listed bridge here in Bristol that didn't cause a problem until the road was resurfaced, reducing the height and it got spanged by a lorry. Been closed for 922 days now according to the website. Bristol council really not covering themselves with glory there
Or indeed, anywhere. Which bridge was that?
Collision protection beams- normally up to £1m to scope, design fabricate and install inclusive of electrical bonding and piled foundations to the CPB as required and including traffic management and possession costs.. we installed one in Crewe. It was hit within an hour of the road opening. Drivers had apparently despite the warning signs still thought that as they hadn’t hit it before they were ok.. however- it stopped them hitting the bridge carrying the main line and knocking it off its bearings.
The bridge in kent referred to earlier- I think i’ve Looked at that previously but the scheme was descoped. The rail height can’t be raised without significant Permant way vertical realignment and as there is a station nearby this would also mean a complete gauging realignment and then potentially platform rebuild. There are however CCTV cameras at hotspots now.. if you hit the bridge you’re liable for the costs if they find you.l
Bridges- difficult to gain significant height from modern U deck designs or composite structures. Pway realignment and vertical curves are possible but eye wateringly expensive- not necessarily the works but the associated blockade( possession of the railway) costs that the train and freight operators levy on NR for closing the railway.. good eh!
A bridge removal and Pway install typically £2m plus not including possession costs as we don’t normally include these costs in tenders.
And no, we don’t take large margins- typically in construction 2-3% is the norm.
The bridge in kent referred to earlier- I think i’ve Looked at that previously but the scheme was descoped. The rail height can’t be raised without significant Permant way vertical realignment and as there is a station nearby this would also mean a complete gauging realignment and then potentially platform rebuild. There are however CCTV cameras at hotspots now.. if you hit the bridge you’re liable for the costs if they find you.l
Bridges- difficult to gain significant height from modern U deck designs or composite structures. Pway realignment and vertical curves are possible but eye wateringly expensive- not necessarily the works but the associated blockade( possession of the railway) costs that the train and freight operators levy on NR for closing the railway.. good eh!
A bridge removal and Pway install typically £2m plus not including possession costs as we don’t normally include these costs in tenders.
And no, we don’t take large margins- typically in construction 2-3% is the norm.
Edited by DanMalkin on Wednesday 6th June 00:09
DanMalkin said:
Play realignment and vertical curves are possible but eye watering lay expensive- not necessarily the works but the associated blockade( possession of the railway) costs that the train and freight operators levy on NR for closing the railway.. good eh!
unlike the others isnt that an artificial cost?If someone hits the bridge and the line is closed arent the costs similar
The question related to actual costs for undertaking these types of work. Actual costs of bridge strikes depend on the associated route delay costs which are dependent on trains affected and knock on scheduled costs. These are not usually shared unless damages are going to be levied.
And in response- no, not really. Delay costs associated with bridge strikes are often offset against insurances - be that NR or often these days the insurers of the vehicle causing the collision. The only other costs are the inspections and minor remedial works unless someone has got incredibly adventurous (read unlucky and dense) and managed to affect the bridge or track structurally..
To design, plan and install a whole new alignment requires significant time in planning, development, design, procurement and finally installation due to interfaces, gauge clearances not only over a structure but also on the approaches as well as an assessment of knock on effects ie signalling, power and comms as a start.
And in response- no, not really. Delay costs associated with bridge strikes are often offset against insurances - be that NR or often these days the insurers of the vehicle causing the collision. The only other costs are the inspections and minor remedial works unless someone has got incredibly adventurous (read unlucky and dense) and managed to affect the bridge or track structurally..
To design, plan and install a whole new alignment requires significant time in planning, development, design, procurement and finally installation due to interfaces, gauge clearances not only over a structure but also on the approaches as well as an assessment of knock on effects ie signalling, power and comms as a start.
DanMalkin said:
The question related to actual costs for undertaking these types of work. Actual costs of bridge strikes depend on the associated route delay costs which are dependent on trains affected and knock on scheduled costs. These are not usually shared unless damages are going to be levied.
And in response- no, not really. Delay costs associated with bridge strikes are often offset against insurances - be that NR or often these days the insurers of the vehicle causing the collision. The only other costs are the inspections and minor remedial works unless someone has got incredibly adventurous (read unlucky and dense) and managed to affect the bridge or track structurally..
To design, plan and install a whole new alignment requires significant time in planning, development, design, procurement and finally installation due to interfaces, gauge clearances not only over a structure but also on the approaches as well as an assessment of knock on effects ie signalling, power and comms as a start.
That's understoodAnd in response- no, not really. Delay costs associated with bridge strikes are often offset against insurances - be that NR or often these days the insurers of the vehicle causing the collision. The only other costs are the inspections and minor remedial works unless someone has got incredibly adventurous (read unlucky and dense) and managed to affect the bridge or track structurally..
To design, plan and install a whole new alignment requires significant time in planning, development, design, procurement and finally installation due to interfaces, gauge clearances not only over a structure but also on the approaches as well as an assessment of knock on effects ie signalling, power and comms as a start.
If its thought of that when bridge strikes occur and there's a funding regime usually via insurance that pays for inpection teams etc
It probably goes down as useful income on a balance sheet
Realigment is all written down as expense and might even suggest future loss of that income.
Maybe it would work better if there wasnt a claim route via insurance
If installing roof choppers 6 inches lower than the bridge results in even more incidents that may not be a good idea either
ashleyman said:
Not an expert but interesting thread.
Wouldn't width restrictors work? Positioned somewhere early enough to give the truck time to turn around?
I guess not when you then have things like ambulances, tractors, or indeed, low-roof lorries specifically designed for areas with restricted height that might still need to use the road?Wouldn't width restrictors work? Positioned somewhere early enough to give the truck time to turn around?
Exactly how difficult is it to come up with a fairly cost effective solution to stop this problem.
How hard is it to install some laser sensors that are linked to a barrier or bollard or similar. All installed at a distance so as to prevent bridge strikes.
Or install sensors on the highest part of the vehicle which alerts the driver. Again a laser will surely be able to do its thing with ample space to avoid any problems.
(if I can think up the above ideas
How hard is it to install some laser sensors that are linked to a barrier or bollard or similar. All installed at a distance so as to prevent bridge strikes.
Or install sensors on the highest part of the vehicle which alerts the driver. Again a laser will surely be able to do its thing with ample space to avoid any problems.
(if I can think up the above ideas
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