RAF & Navy hardware looking quite modern nowadays
Discussion
Boom78 said:
I don’t get this either, surely the prototypes were fully tested against a requirement before any commitment to buy and roll out were made? Seems v weird unless story is a load of nonsense? If story is true then can we reject the dross we’ve purchased? Basic contract guff
Nope. That's not how F35, AJAX, CR3 or Boxer are contracted.aeropilot said:
Doesn't work like that in todays world, and hasn't for decades.
I suspect also that some fair degree of spec-shift by MOD has happened post contract if that is true about the ludicrous tonnage increase, no doubt without wanting to pay to redesign it properly to accommodate the changes.....
Whilst the parliamentary review did confirm that there has been significant contract change, the weight is just poor journalism. AJAX is derived from ASCOD.I suspect also that some fair degree of spec-shift by MOD has happened post contract if that is true about the ludicrous tonnage increase, no doubt without wanting to pay to redesign it properly to accommodate the changes.....
It's been an eventful day for the RN today. Not only has the first steel been cut for HMS Venturer (Type 31 frigate) up in Rosyth, but the fourth Astute class submarine HMS Audacious was finally commissioned at HMNB Clyde.
ETA: Oh, and Daniel Craig has been made an honorary Commander for his support of service personnel and their families.
ETA: Oh, and Daniel Craig has been made an honorary Commander for his support of service personnel and their families.
Edited by Cold on Friday 24th September 02:10
Cold said:
It's been an eventful day for the RN today. Not only has the first steel been cut for HMS Venturer (Type 31 frigate) up in Rosyth, but the fourth Astute class submarine HMS Audacious was finally commissioned at HMNB Clyde.
ETA: Oh, and Daniel Craig has been made an honorary Commander for his support of service personnel and their families.
The Type 31 does sound like it's gone rather well so far... Let's see if they can get them in the water and working for anywhere near the contract price!ETA: Oh, and Daniel Craig has been made an honorary Commander for his support of service personnel and their families.
Seems to have gone very quiet about the Type 26 which is ominous.
Krikkit said:
The Type 31 does sound like it's gone rather well so far... Let's see if they can get them in the water and working for anywhere near the contract price!
Seems to have gone very quiet about the Type 26 which is ominous.
T26 is ploughing on. Glasgow's coming along well, should be in the water soon.Seems to have gone very quiet about the Type 26 which is ominous.
T31 is a good piece of kit, but nothing like as advanced or capable as T26
They've managed to sell 31 to an export customer the other day. Indonesia I think?
thewarlock said:
Krikkit said:
The Type 31 does sound like it's gone rather well so far... Let's see if they can get them in the water and working for anywhere near the contract price!
Seems to have gone very quiet about the Type 26 which is ominous.
T26 is ploughing on. Glasgow's coming along well, should be in the water soon.Seems to have gone very quiet about the Type 26 which is ominous.
T31 is a good piece of kit, but nothing like as advanced or capable as T26
They've managed to sell 31 to an export customer the other day. Indonesia I think?
hidetheelephants said:
I don't really get the T31; it's nearly the same size as the T26, economy of scale/learning curve would suggest building more T26 but not fitting them with tails would ultimately be cheaper and give better operational flexibility, although no doubt the current industrial strategy would prevent some of that saving from being realised.
The T31 is a much simpler vessel.T31 has a simpler P&P/drivetrain, T26 is made for ASW warfare so there are lots and lots of underwater radiated noise requirements that have to be taken into account wrt the hullform, main machinery and smaller/aux machinery. Which all means £££.
Also, cheaper means easier to export; they've sold 2 off T31 to the Indonesian navy already.
Wht does 'tails' mean in this context?
Edited by thewarlock on Monday 27th September 09:16
Army still making stupid choices and the regretting it.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-facing-cos...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-facing-cos...
Evanivitch said:
Army still making stupid choices and the regretting it.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-facing-cos...
I can only read the first paragraph but "light tank" requires the author be on the receiving end of a wedgie.https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/army-facing-cos...
LotusOmega375D said:
Haha, that’s one paragraph more than me. Why do people post up links to subscription articles?
Sorry, I thought most people that could type in an email address also knew how to bypass a pay wall. My mistake.The times said:
As part of the original decision, the Boxer armoured vehicle, which runs on wheels and is unable to travel across all terrains, was set to replace the Warrior from 2025. Now the Warrior’s life could be extended until as late as 2032 — but without the upgrade that would have improved its protection.
The Times has been told it will cost £136 million to extend the vehicle’s life by just one more year and an estimated £200 million every year thereafter to keep it going until 2032.
“We are paying more to get a vehicle that will go out of service in ten years when we could have paid less to get [an upgraded] vehicle that would have lasted another 30-40 years,” one defence source said.
MoD figures disputed the amounts and suggested it would cost just £81 million to extend the Warrior’s life until later in the decade.
An army spokesman said: “These claims are wrong and misleading. The army made clear in 2021 that Warrior would leave service this decade and the first Boxer vehicles would enter initial service from 2025, which is still the case. There are no plans to extend Warrior to 2030.”
However, The Times understands that the costs for a partial U-turn on the future of Warrior are being worked through internally by the MoD, contrary to public assertions.
The Times has been told it will cost £136 million to extend the vehicle’s life by just one more year and an estimated £200 million every year thereafter to keep it going until 2032.
“We are paying more to get a vehicle that will go out of service in ten years when we could have paid less to get [an upgraded] vehicle that would have lasted another 30-40 years,” one defence source said.
MoD figures disputed the amounts and suggested it would cost just £81 million to extend the Warrior’s life until later in the decade.
An army spokesman said: “These claims are wrong and misleading. The army made clear in 2021 that Warrior would leave service this decade and the first Boxer vehicles would enter initial service from 2025, which is still the case. There are no plans to extend Warrior to 2030.”
However, The Times understands that the costs for a partial U-turn on the future of Warrior are being worked through internally by the MoD, contrary to public assertions.
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Boxer is inbound, with trialling about to start. It's a proven platform with a good track record. Any significant life extension to Warrior would be daft at this stage.
ETA - they are of course designed for different roles however.
Not just different roles, intended to replace entirely different vehicle fleets. The cheapest way out of this appears to be a relatively small purchase of medium calibre equipped Boxer vehicles (of which choices are many), plus a not insignificant order of the Patria 6x6 which has a. Growing community of users in Europe. ETA - they are of course designed for different roles however.
That would hopefully allow the Army to fully retire the Warrior and FV430, Mastiff, Ridgeback, Wolfhound and possibly Pinz.
Evanivitch said:
Sorry, I thought most people that could type in an email address also knew how to bypass a pay wall. My mistake.
It took you as long to be snippy about it as it would have been to link appropriately in the first instance.Whining about the small annual cost of extending Warrior is rather silly given how the tragically bad AJAX is being hosed down with money.
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