Mach Loop Typhoon ‘Incident’.
Discussion
Ginetta said
" think you will find that, as an a/c Captain, the moment I have signed out on the MoD F700 (for the uninitiated the F700 is effectively the a/c's 'logbook' that records things like servicings, defects, limitations, fuel states, etc), then the a/c absolutely is mine. That is enshrined within Service Law - I am now solely responsible in totality for that a/c, its crew (if applicable), and its weapons (if applicable)."
No. As I posted earlier, you take on the responsibility for the aircraft. The same as when you sign a weapon out of the armoury and you are then respotfor it. You may treat it as if it's yours, but it isn't. You didn't buy it, you don't maintain it, you don't dispose of it when you've finished with it.
Now you can dress it up whichever way you want, but you're wrong. It's not your property.
Jeepers. My fears were correct. The aircrew arrogance is still there.
" think you will find that, as an a/c Captain, the moment I have signed out on the MoD F700 (for the uninitiated the F700 is effectively the a/c's 'logbook' that records things like servicings, defects, limitations, fuel states, etc), then the a/c absolutely is mine. That is enshrined within Service Law - I am now solely responsible in totality for that a/c, its crew (if applicable), and its weapons (if applicable)."
No. As I posted earlier, you take on the responsibility for the aircraft. The same as when you sign a weapon out of the armoury and you are then respotfor it. You may treat it as if it's yours, but it isn't. You didn't buy it, you don't maintain it, you don't dispose of it when you've finished with it.
Now you can dress it up whichever way you want, but you're wrong. It's not your property.
Jeepers. My fears were correct. The aircrew arrogance is still there.
Polite M135 driver said:
Lemming Train said:
ukaskew said:
Sadly my few interactions with hardcore aviation photography enthusiasts have all been negative. Whether that's borderline abusive behaviour at the arrivals day at RIAT (I'll never go again) or the few who kicked up a big stink that the residents open day at our local military airfield wasn't open to them.
I'm a regular on the fightercontrol.co.uk forum and you would not believe how pathetic a lot of grown men are. There's a constant battle going on between 2 different groups of spotters/photogs at Prestwick with threats to 'do' each other in with some guy from Falkirk seemingly at the centre of it all. Then down at Mildenhall there are a number of private invite only FB groups who all try to out-do each other with the movements and 'heads ups' on stuff coming in, deliberately posting false info on FC to try to get those not in their private posse to make a wasted journey down. Also if you happen to be a member of one the private FB groups and repost something elsewhere, you get threatened with violence and are instantly banned from the group! This, from grown men typically in their 40-70s ! It's unreal.stevesingo said:
magpie215 said:
Possibly this?....looks to be less than 250 ft agl
Looks like 1/4 of that.He/she will probably get a ticking off. Great advert for the RAF though. Every cloud!
Sorry Goose but it's time to buzz the tower...
https://youtu.be/vdHBsWXaHN8
And we all know how that ended...
https://youtu.be/vdHBsWXaHN8
And we all know how that ended...
FredClogs said:
Sorry Goose but it's time to buzz the tower...
https://youtu.be/vdHBsWXaHN8
And we all know how that ended...
Some gash shots off the 'net [Ooerr]https://youtu.be/vdHBsWXaHN8
And we all know how that ended...
Still could be worse..
It's all about trust!
Lemming Train said:
Great video.Some negative comments from the “veteran loopers” .
Its always amazing how a frankly positive video can end up with such a negative effect on people, both the spotters and the chain of command.
PS what am I missing in the F-15E shot, is there something funny like the Tornado one or is it just a "see the difference" type thing?
PS what am I missing in the F-15E shot, is there something funny like the Tornado one or is it just a "see the difference" type thing?
pincher said:
It’s terribly predictable, isn’t it? 
Frodo was happy to have a difference of opinion with Tony without resorting to those sort of replies yet, sadly, Ginetta MUST be right, even when she's not as in this case (and about 75% of other threads that end like this). Tony said "own the A/C" which is not the same as "be ultimately responsible for", a huge world of difference.Thanks Ian.
The silly thing is that if most of us here were to meet up there'd be no arguments about anything. We would be polite (honest, I can do that!) and nice to each other, and natter about the good things.
The silly thing is that if most of us here were to meet up there'd be no arguments about anything. We would be polite (honest, I can do that!) and nice to each other, and natter about the good things.
Edited by Tony1963 on Friday 26th October 07:08
Edited by Tony1963 on Friday 26th October 07:08
IanH755 said:
PS what am I missing in the F-15E shot, is there something funny like the Tornado one or is it just a "see the difference" type thing?
The clue to what you are missing is written below the Eagle picture. It is focused on BOTH however with the emphasis firmly on the LATTER.
You will just have to comprehend and observe at the same time.The phrase "say what you see" is valid...
PS If you can't work it out, then there are plenty of quiet welsh hilltops and fresh air available for "comprehension practice".
PPS Actually Ginetta IS accurate in EVERYTHING she said. Go read ALL of what she has written again-comprehension not a closed mind is paramount.
Well, we've had a look through the Regulatory Articles this morning, especially the Flight 2000 series and, all we can see is that word "responsibility". At no point does it mention ownership.
Of course, if anyone can guide us to where the RAs say "ownership", we would be very grateful.
Of course, if anyone can guide us to where the RAs say "ownership", we would be very grateful.
Tony1963 said:
Well, we've had a look through the Regulatory Articles this morning, especially the Flight 2000 series and, all we can see is that word "responsibility". At no point does it mention ownership.
Of course, if anyone can guide us to where the RAs say "ownership", we would be very grateful.
and 'ownership' needs looking up too, to examine its various meaningsOf course, if anyone can guide us to where the RAs say "ownership", we would be very grateful.
Pedantry matters ?
Kccv23highliftcam said:
The clue to what you are missing is written below the Eagle picture.
It is focused on BOTH however with the emphasis firmly on the LATTER.
You will just have to comprehend and observe at the same time.The phrase "say what you see" is valid...
PS If you can't work it out, then there are plenty of quiet welsh hilltops and fresh air available for "comprehension practice".
PPS Actually Ginetta IS accurate in EVERYTHING she said. Go read ALL of what she has written again-comprehension not a closed mind is paramount.
Why don't you actually TELL us what's going on in the photos YOU'VE posted, like more than one person has asked, and as such is good etiquette? We get it, you fly or you're involved with it, and you know a lot, but my god you're hard work... It's 2 guys in a plane, the one in the back seat is what, pretending to shoot himself in the head? It's hard enough to see on those tiny photos. It is focused on BOTH however with the emphasis firmly on the LATTER.
You will just have to comprehend and observe at the same time.The phrase "say what you see" is valid...
PS If you can't work it out, then there are plenty of quiet welsh hilltops and fresh air available for "comprehension practice".
PPS Actually Ginetta IS accurate in EVERYTHING she said. Go read ALL of what she has written again-comprehension not a closed mind is paramount.
And Ginetta might be accurate, but she's coming across as such a bullish d
head, that nobody wants to engage with her, or even read her posts. She (I am yet to be convinced though, given the drunk-scaffolder levels of rage) could take offence and start an argument in an empty (mess) room. 
OpulentBob said:
Kccv23highliftcam said:
The clue to what you are missing is written below the Eagle picture.
It is focused on BOTH however with the emphasis firmly on the LATTER.
You will just have to comprehend and observe at the same time.The phrase "say what you see" is valid...
PS If you can't work it out, then there are plenty of quiet welsh hilltops and fresh air available for "comprehension practice".
PPS Actually Ginetta IS accurate in EVERYTHING she said. Go read ALL of what she has written again-comprehension not a closed mind is paramount.
Why don't you actually TELL us what's going on in the photos YOU'VE posted, like more than one person has asked, and as such is good etiquette? We get it, you fly or you're involved with it, and you know a lot, but my god you're hard work... It's 2 guys in a plane, the one in the back seat is what, pretending to shoot himself in the head? It's hard enough to see on those tiny photos. It is focused on BOTH however with the emphasis firmly on the LATTER.
You will just have to comprehend and observe at the same time.The phrase "say what you see" is valid...
PS If you can't work it out, then there are plenty of quiet welsh hilltops and fresh air available for "comprehension practice".
PPS Actually Ginetta IS accurate in EVERYTHING she said. Go read ALL of what she has written again-comprehension not a closed mind is paramount.
And Ginetta might be accurate, but she's coming across as such a bullish d
head, that nobody wants to engage with her, or even read her posts. She (I am yet to be convinced though, given the drunk-scaffolder levels of rage) could take offence and start an argument in an empty (mess) room. Tony1963 said:
Well, we've had a look through the Regulatory Articles this morning, especially the Flight 2000 series and, all we can see is that word "responsibility". At no point does it mention ownership.
Of course, if anyone can guide us to where the RAs say "ownership", we would be very grateful.
Has anyone got a print of a RAF officers commissioning scroll ?Of course, if anyone can guide us to where the RAs say "ownership", we would be very grateful.
I'll say this slowly.
Who owns the aircraft? HMG
When they go bombing over Iraq/Syria do they do it on a whim?, or at the bequest of HMG directed under order by their superior officers under the legitimate chain of command. Yes?
This legitimises the individual actions of state warfare. Yes?
When they take control of the the aircraft they become the sword arm of the government. Yes?
Who owns the aircraft?
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