RE: Airspeeder aerial racing series announced

RE: Airspeeder aerial racing series announced

Author
Discussion

Munter

31,319 posts

241 months

Wednesday 3rd July 2019
quotequote all
300bhp/ton said:
I suppose technically they are rotary wings. But yes, unless they can auto rotate (would require variable pitch and other things), then engine failure or power supply problems would see them tumble like a brick.
Central Power failure would be an issue. But single engine failure should be ok. You've got 8, I assume it'd supposed to be able to fly with 4 as it's 2 in each corner.

The existing "octocopter" drones can fly with an engine out.

Lose power to all of them though...I think we're looking at a ballistic situation.

CanAm

9,206 posts

272 months

Wednesday 3rd July 2019
quotequote all
Munter said:
Central Power failure would be an issue. But single engine failure should be ok. You've got 8, I assume it'd supposed to be able to fly with 4 as it's 2 in each corner.

The existing "octocopter" drones can fly with an engine out.

Lose power to all of them though...I think we're looking at a ballistic situation.
No problem, you get a Ballistic Recovery System (aircraft parachute).....if you're high enough.But I guess these things wont go very high.

Munter

31,319 posts

241 months

Wednesday 3rd July 2019
quotequote all
CanAm said:
Munter said:
Central Power failure would be an issue. But single engine failure should be ok. You've got 8, I assume it'd supposed to be able to fly with 4 as it's 2 in each corner.

The existing "octocopter" drones can fly with an engine out.

Lose power to all of them though...I think we're looking at a ballistic situation.
No problem, you get a Ballistic Recovery System (aircraft parachute).....if you're high enough.But I guess these things wont go very high.
20 meters according to the story...that doesn't feel like enough height. But I know the sum total of naff all about parachute deployment.

bakerstreet

4,763 posts

165 months

Wednesday 3rd July 2019
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Looks like an amazing idea, but like the Welsh TVR project I can't really see it happening.


Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

279 months

Wednesday 3rd July 2019
quotequote all
Shouldn’t be beyond the wit of engineers to install a back up power pack / motor to get the machine down safely in the event of a system failure.

It’s the future - non flying cars will be banned and all roads will be turned into cycle tracks.

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

190 months

Wednesday 3rd July 2019
quotequote all
Ayahuasca said:
Shouldn’t be beyond the wit of engineers to install a back up power pack / motor to get the machine down safely in the event of a system failure. .
do you have an example of such systems on current aircraft and helicopters?

Eric Mc

122,032 posts

265 months

Wednesday 3rd July 2019
quotequote all
Here's an example of one of the current systems at work -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oJngucEac4

Listen to what the pilot says.

These airspeeders would leave you with no chance. In the real world, physics mean more than hype.

Kawasicki

13,084 posts

235 months

Wednesday 3rd July 2019
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Looks dangerous.

Bring it on.

Eric Mc

122,032 posts

265 months

Wednesday 3rd July 2019
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I take it you won’t be volunteering.

Kawasicki

13,084 posts

235 months

Wednesday 3rd July 2019
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Eric Mc said:
I take it you won’t be volunteering.
No way, will only watch the crash highlights on t’internet...but I think it is brilliant that people will queue up to do daft stuff.

Eric Mc

122,032 posts

265 months

Wednesday 3rd July 2019
quotequote all
I actually don't think anybody will - unless they are suicidal. I honestly can't see any authority letting such devices be unleashed. The certainty of death in an incident is pretty much 100%.

big_rob_sydney

3,403 posts

194 months

Wednesday 3rd July 2019
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300bhp/ton said:
big_rob_sydney said:
300bhp/ton said:
big_rob_sydney said:
They say racing improves the breed. Great, let's see it.

I do hope these work out, because I'd love to escape the drudgery of commuting and being stuck in traffic. Anything that offers a chance at that, I say bring it on !

I also wonder how cool these new experiences might be. I remember my first few road trips in cars and on bikes, and how much fun they were. I would hope this is the same, and possibly even more so.

So besides offering practicalities like saving us time freed from gridlock, I expect they can also offer us huge amounts of fun.
I assume you are alluding to flying cars. You do realise they already exist. They are called airplanes. wink
I guess it depends how far you really want to stretch the definition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrafugia_Transitio...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AeroMobil_s.r.o._Aer...

Theres also a bunch of drone / helicopter style EV's coming too, with these being among the first to market (give or take).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehang_UAV
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Hawk_Corporati...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Passenger_Air...
The definition doesn't need stretching at all.

Car, as in carriage. Coming from horseless carriage, and carriage itself being a wheeled vehicle for people. So technically anything multi rotor without wheels is no form of carriage as it lacks the "wheel" part. However in the spirit of the definition being to transport people. Then current flying machines such as helicopters and fixed wing aircraft do this perfectly.

These "drone" style flying machines are just an extension of a multi-rotor concept and by and large don't differ from a regular helicopter in how they fly. Therefore they should be treated the same as a helicopter. They are not cars.

And as for your talk about "because I'd love to escape the drudgery of commuting".

How would these racing machines solve this?

All aviation is strictly regulated, in terms of use. You need to have approval, craft need to be certified, a much stricter and tougher and lengthy licence process, you have to potentially file flight plans and there is a lot of restricted air space.

All flying machines have very strict maintenance schedules on them, and in most cases you can only use certified parts and certified people to work on them.

Not to mention the obvious things such as if a car breaks down or is in a minor collision it will just roll to a stop. Any airborne craft cannot do this.

And surely if you move all the traffic from the roads, then the airways will be just as congested, probably worse.
Personally, rather than focusing on semantics, I'd rather take the view that this is just a new platform that is evolving, in much the same way that we moved on from walking, to horses, to powered machines.

And in the same vein, some of this looks to be great fun.

Yes, you're quite right, maintenance, etc. But cars require maintenance too, and we have a pretty well understood aviation industry, so the basics are in place. I'd totally get the concern around whether or not an individual would cut corners on maintenance, and hopefully this gets sorted. I'm sure we could talk about ballistic parachutes, and government mandated maintenance, if needs be, but above all else, dude, don't be a killjoy.

Eric Mc

122,032 posts

265 months

Wednesday 3rd July 2019
quotequote all
The problem is certification and standards. Aviation certification and standards are orders of magnitude ahead of what is required for land based vehicles. Personal "flivvers" (as envisaged in the 1920s) will never be affordable as long as the certification process remains as it is.

I even think the autonomous drones so touted by the likes of Amazon and Google are a long way off - let alone human carrying contraptions.

CanAm

9,206 posts

272 months

Thursday 4th July 2019
quotequote all
The Kitty Hawk Flyer (see page 1) "was revealed on June 6, 2018: it does not need a pilot license as it is built under US FAR Part 103 ultralight regulations."
yikes

It has a quoted Service Ceiling of only 20ft, so it sounds like it can only operate under ground effect.

Kawasicki

13,084 posts

235 months

Thursday 4th July 2019
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
I actually don't think anybody will - unless they are suicidal. I honestly can't see any authority letting such devices be unleashed. The certainty of death in an incident is pretty much 100%.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCn0ITRHWS64_zRz5WWeQBkQ

Neonblau

875 posts

133 months

Thursday 4th July 2019
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
The problem is certification and standards. Aviation certification and standards are orders of magnitude ahead of what is required for land based vehicles. Personal "flivvers" (as envisaged in the 1920s) will never be affordable as long as the certification process remains as it is.

I even think the autonomous drones so touted by the likes of Amazon and Google are a long way off - let alone human carrying contraptions.
And on top of all that you need insurance. TP liability would be massive and priced accordingly.

Eric Mc

122,032 posts

265 months

Thursday 4th July 2019
quotequote all
Kawasicki said:
Link amended so it works.

Hmm - you could combine your morning wash with the commute.

Kawasicki

13,084 posts

235 months

Thursday 4th July 2019
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Kawasicki said:
Link amended so it works.

Hmm - you could combine your morning wash with the commute.
Thanks!

big_rob_sydney

3,403 posts

194 months

Thursday 4th July 2019
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
The problem is certification and standards. Aviation certification and standards are orders of magnitude ahead of what is required for land based vehicles. Personal "flivvers" (as envisaged in the 1920s) will never be affordable as long as the certification process remains as it is.

I even think the autonomous drones so touted by the likes of Amazon and Google are a long way off - let alone human carrying contraptions.
I'm out of the loop on the detail, but I believe ehang actually flew real people in dubai last year?

Eric Mc

122,032 posts

265 months

Thursday 4th July 2019
quotequote all
So.

Technically demonstrating that something can be done is a very long way from it becoming a normal thing - and a VERY long way from various authorities all around the world certifying it.

Getting back to the original topic, wasn't this series announced originally about ten years ago? And if so, what happened in that gap between then and now?

The whole thing smacks to me of the dumb "Mars One" project which was total and absolute hype (not to mention "tripe").