Duxford Beaufighter
Discussion
I wonder.
The basic Hercules engine most likely would have had similar engine mounts no matter what they were fitted to. The Hercules was used on a number of post war designs such as the Hastings, Bristol Freighter and the Noratlas - many of which soldiered on into the 1970s and early 80s.
Spitfires have been re-engined with different mark Merlins to what they had originally. One Griffon Spit was restored with a Griffon from a Shackleton.
Some Sea Furies are now flying with Pratt and Whitney radials.
I think there is probably a bit more to the slow progress of the Beaufighter project than lack of suitable engine.
The basic Hercules engine most likely would have had similar engine mounts no matter what they were fitted to. The Hercules was used on a number of post war designs such as the Hastings, Bristol Freighter and the Noratlas - many of which soldiered on into the 1970s and early 80s.
Spitfires have been re-engined with different mark Merlins to what they had originally. One Griffon Spit was restored with a Griffon from a Shackleton.
Some Sea Furies are now flying with Pratt and Whitney radials.
I think there is probably a bit more to the slow progress of the Beaufighter project than lack of suitable engine.
Historic Aircraft Engines in Australia have been able to work rebuilding Hercules engines since they got 16 tons of Bristol Hercules spare parts found in New Zealand, including the sleeve valves which are very rare.
http://www.warbirdsonline.com.au/2018/07/02/beaufi...
http://www.warbirdsonline.com.au/2018/07/02/beaufi...
Eric Mc said:
That did cross my mind a while ago. However, it would be great to see it fly with Hercules fitted as it would be more representative of Beaufighters and they do sound very different to Merlins.
Apparently the merlin engined variant was deeply unpopular with its crews, if a engine was lost at low speed the wing had a tendency to drop violently which likely ended in a fatal crash.Eric Mc said:
I think there is probably a bit more to the slow progress of the Beaufighter project than lack of suitable engine.
Yes, lack of suitable props anywhere.The lack of suitable props and engines have been the only major issues regarding the lack of progress in recent years.
No other reasons.
Eric Mc said:
Lack of props sounds more plausible.
I really don't get your stance on this Eric. It's been well documented over the years that getting the correct engines has been pretty much impossible and one of the main stumbling blocks.Do you really think they'd invest all that time and money in the restoration so far just to stop at the end because they can't be arsed to fit a couple of Bristol Freighter engines?
I'd like to know for sure why other versions of the Hercules aren't suitable. As I said, other aircraft have flown with different versions of engines that were not originally fitted
Even props aren't insurmountable. Out of production propellers have been manufactured new for a number of restoration projects.
I would suggest that all of the issues could be fixed IF there are adequate funds. And I suspect that this is the real problem.
There would also be the issue of CAA approval for a type that has never been on the civil register. I'd like to know what steps have been taken to start the ball rolling on that score.
I've been visiting Duxford on and off since 1978 and for a number of decades this project has languished. I was actually looking at it only a few weeks ago. There certainly has been progress on the airframe since I had last seen it (2004) but not much considering that is a 15 year time span.
Hasn't it changed hands a few times?
Even props aren't insurmountable. Out of production propellers have been manufactured new for a number of restoration projects.
I would suggest that all of the issues could be fixed IF there are adequate funds. And I suspect that this is the real problem.
There would also be the issue of CAA approval for a type that has never been on the civil register. I'd like to know what steps have been taken to start the ball rolling on that score.
I've been visiting Duxford on and off since 1978 and for a number of decades this project has languished. I was actually looking at it only a few weeks ago. There certainly has been progress on the airframe since I had last seen it (2004) but not much considering that is a 15 year time span.
Hasn't it changed hands a few times?
Eric Mc said:
There would also be the issue of CAA approval for a type that has never been on the civil register. I'd like to know what steps have been taken to start the ball rolling on that score.
Given the aircraft TFC have already operated, EG Curtiss Hawk and Grumman Tigercat, that's hardly a major hurdle.Eric Mc said:
I'd like to know for sure why other versions of the Hercules aren't suitable. As I said, other aircraft have flown with different versions of engines that were not originally fitted
Even props aren't insurmountable. Out of production propellers have been manufactured new for a number of restoration projects.
There would also be the issue of CAA approval for a type that has never been on the civil register. I'd like to know what steps have been taken to start the ball rolling on that score.
All been explained at length directly by Pete Rushen, TFC's Chief Engineer, in various threads on the Flypast Forum over the past 15+ years, in their quest for a solution to the engines/props issue, there's no secrets.Even props aren't insurmountable. Out of production propellers have been manufactured new for a number of restoration projects.
There would also be the issue of CAA approval for a type that has never been on the civil register. I'd like to know what steps have been taken to start the ball rolling on that score.
Eric Mc said:
Hasn't it changed hands a few times?
No.TFC have tried selling it as an unfinished project, and came close a few years back, but the deal fell through, partly because they were selling all their heavier and twin engine fleet when SG had a restriction on his licence for flying the heavy stuff, (B-25 & Tigercat were sold as well as the Mossie) and partly because it seemed there was just no solution to the prop/engine issue.
Nick Grey has recently announced that his Dad has now had to give up all flying, so we won't ever see SG in any of the fleet again, so if they can it airworthy it may stay on the TFC fleet, or it maybe that we see a further reduction in the fleet in the coming years, depending on the funding available. It will be much easier to sell if its flying than not though.
Dr Jekyll said:
Eric Mc said:
There would also be the issue of CAA approval for a type that has never been on the civil register. I'd like to know what steps have been taken to start the ball rolling on that score.
Given the aircraft TFC have already operated, EG Curtiss Hawk and Grumman Tigercat, that's hardly a major hurdle.The CAA in the UK would have a starting point on which to base their permits. As far as I can recall, no Beaufighters have ever flown under civil regulations anywhere in the world, ever - so the CAA would have to sort out the licensing arrangements from scratch. It's not an insurmountable situation of course - they have done this before, notable with the Blenheim. So, it's just another obstacle to overcome.
aeropilot said:
Eric Mc said:
I'd like to know for sure why other versions of the Hercules aren't suitable. As I said, other aircraft have flown with different versions of engines that were not originally fitted
Even props aren't insurmountable. Out of production propellers have been manufactured new for a number of restoration projects.
There would also be the issue of CAA approval for a type that has never been on the civil register. I'd like to know what steps have been taken to start the ball rolling on that score.
All been explained at length directly by Pete Rushen, TFC's Chief Engineer, in various threads on the Flypast Forum over the past 15+ years, in their quest for a solution to the engines/props issue, there's no secrets.Even props aren't insurmountable. Out of production propellers have been manufactured new for a number of restoration projects.
There would also be the issue of CAA approval for a type that has never been on the civil register. I'd like to know what steps have been taken to start the ball rolling on that score.
Eric Mc said:
Hasn't it changed hands a few times?
No.TFC have tried selling it as an unfinished project, and came close a few years back, but the deal fell through, partly because they were selling all their heavier and twin engine fleet when SG had a restriction on his licence for flying the heavy stuff, (B-25 & Tigercat were sold as well as the Mossie) and partly because it seemed there was just no solution to the prop/engine issue.
Nick Grey has recently announced that his Dad has now had to give up all flying, so we won't ever see SG in any of the fleet again, so if they can it airworthy it may stay on the TFC fleet, or it maybe that we see a further reduction in the fleet in the coming years, depending on the funding available. It will be much easier to sell if its flying than not though.
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