where are they going to park all the planes?
Discussion
...and then there were three!
BA's presence at Hurn down to 3× A319/320s now. No 747s, and the 3 remaining narrow bodies are on stands at the terminal alongside a Ryanair jet.
The BEA liveried A319 is still there (and looking fabulous). Sorry for lack of photos, but I was out cycling later than planned, and hustling to get home before my dinner ended up in the dog!
BA's presence at Hurn down to 3× A319/320s now. No 747s, and the 3 remaining narrow bodies are on stands at the terminal alongside a Ryanair jet.
The BEA liveried A319 is still there (and looking fabulous). Sorry for lack of photos, but I was out cycling later than planned, and hustling to get home before my dinner ended up in the dog!
yellowjack said:
...and then there were three!
BA's presence at Hurn down to 3× A319/320s now. No 747s, and the 3 remaining narrow bodies are on stands at the terminal alongside a Ryanair jet.
The BEA liveried A319 is still there (and looking fabulous). Sorry for lack of photos, but I was out cycling later than planned, and hustling to get home before my dinner ended up in the dog!
BA had over 50,000 people departing flights out of T5 at Heathrow over the course of last weekend, so the short haul fleet are seeing some upturn in activity, but not so the long haul fleet's, with of course the 747 now history, and maybe the oldest 777's in the fleet possibly going early as well.BA's presence at Hurn down to 3× A319/320s now. No 747s, and the 3 remaining narrow bodies are on stands at the terminal alongside a Ryanair jet.
The BEA liveried A319 is still there (and looking fabulous). Sorry for lack of photos, but I was out cycling later than planned, and hustling to get home before my dinner ended up in the dog!
With the demise of the 747 in BA's fleet, this will also mark the first time since in the post-WW2 era BOAC/BA fleet they will not have a 4 engine aircraft
aeropilot said:
yellowjack said:
...and then there were three!
BA's presence at Hurn down to 3× A319/320s now. No 747s, and the 3 remaining narrow bodies are on stands at the terminal alongside a Ryanair jet.
The BEA liveried A319 is still there (and looking fabulous). Sorry for lack of photos, but I was out cycling later than planned, and hustling to get home before my dinner ended up in the dog!
BA had over 50,000 people departing flights out of T5 at Heathrow over the course of last weekend, so the short haul fleet are seeing some upturn in activity, but not so the long haul fleet's, with of course the 747 now history, and maybe the oldest 777's in the fleet possibly going early as well.BA's presence at Hurn down to 3× A319/320s now. No 747s, and the 3 remaining narrow bodies are on stands at the terminal alongside a Ryanair jet.
The BEA liveried A319 is still there (and looking fabulous). Sorry for lack of photos, but I was out cycling later than planned, and hustling to get home before my dinner ended up in the dog!
With the demise of the 747 in BA's fleet, this will also mark the first time since in the post-WW2 era BOAC/BA fleet they will not have a 4 engine aircraft
surveyor said:
aeropilot said:
yellowjack said:
...and then there were three!
BA's presence at Hurn down to 3× A319/320s now. No 747s, and the 3 remaining narrow bodies are on stands at the terminal alongside a Ryanair jet.
The BEA liveried A319 is still there (and looking fabulous). Sorry for lack of photos, but I was out cycling later than planned, and hustling to get home before my dinner ended up in the dog!
BA had over 50,000 people departing flights out of T5 at Heathrow over the course of last weekend, so the short haul fleet are seeing some upturn in activity, but not so the long haul fleet's, with of course the 747 now history, and maybe the oldest 777's in the fleet possibly going early as well.BA's presence at Hurn down to 3× A319/320s now. No 747s, and the 3 remaining narrow bodies are on stands at the terminal alongside a Ryanair jet.
The BEA liveried A319 is still there (and looking fabulous). Sorry for lack of photos, but I was out cycling later than planned, and hustling to get home before my dinner ended up in the dog!
With the demise of the 747 in BA's fleet, this will also mark the first time since in the post-WW2 era BOAC/BA fleet they will not have a 4 engine aircraft
I'd forgotten about the monster white elephant......although it remains to be seen how long that fleet will stay in storage?
alangla said:
aeropilot said:
Oh yeah............
I'd forgotten about the monster white elephant......although it remains to be seen how long that fleet will stay in storage?
Some of them have been on the move recently, but it seems they've got back to Chateauroux for storage again.I'd forgotten about the monster white elephant......although it remains to be seen how long that fleet will stay in storage?
aeropilot said:
alangla said:
aeropilot said:
Oh yeah............
I'd forgotten about the monster white elephant......although it remains to be seen how long that fleet will stay in storage?
Some of them have been on the move recently, but it seems they've got back to Chateauroux for storage again.I'd forgotten about the monster white elephant......although it remains to be seen how long that fleet will stay in storage?
The one thing that always got me about BA's 747 vs A380 operation was that they used to be happy to send flocks of 747s to JFK a day, though latterly with a couple of 777s in tow, but never used the A380. Now, I understand there's probably an issue with getting big enough gates at the far end (e.g. when Norwegian used the Hi-Fly A380 it had to go in during the dead of night), especially when BA had their own terminal but given they seem to be moving terminal, could BA be looking to consolidate the JFK operation to a couple of A380s a day plus some 777s for the freight?
alangla said:
The A319 crew taxi also seems to go out there a couple of times a week. Surely they wouldn't be spending all this money unless they're going to bring them back?
The one thing that always got me about BA's 747 vs A380 operation was that they used to be happy to send flocks of 747s to JFK a day, though latterly with a couple of 777s in tow, but never used the A380. Now, I understand there's probably an issue with getting big enough gates at the far end (e.g. when Norwegian used the Hi-Fly A380 it had to go in during the dead of night), especially when BA had their own terminal but given they seem to be moving terminal, could BA be looking to consolidate the JFK operation to a couple of A380s a day plus some 777s for the freight?
The frequency of the flights is part of what made them so attractive I reckon. If you could buy a flexi fare and then take your pick from several flights per day it would be better than the inflexibility of your proposed alternative although I understand what you’re saying.The one thing that always got me about BA's 747 vs A380 operation was that they used to be happy to send flocks of 747s to JFK a day, though latterly with a couple of 777s in tow, but never used the A380. Now, I understand there's probably an issue with getting big enough gates at the far end (e.g. when Norwegian used the Hi-Fly A380 it had to go in during the dead of night), especially when BA had their own terminal but given they seem to be moving terminal, could BA be looking to consolidate the JFK operation to a couple of A380s a day plus some 777s for the freight?
The other factor might have been that the 747’s they used were ‘high J‘ (14F 86J seats) vs 14F 97J on the 380 so if they were filling a lot of those seats reducing the movements wouldn’t have made economic sense. I may be completely wrong of course and there’s a far more obvious explanation.
I’m sure once Asia and the US open up to us again a few 380 services will make sense again. The last 380 flight I took with BA was back from Jo’burg and it was packed.
djc206 said:
alangla said:
The A319 crew taxi also seems to go out there a couple of times a week. Surely they wouldn't be spending all this money unless they're going to bring them back?
The one thing that always got me about BA's 747 vs A380 operation was that they used to be happy to send flocks of 747s to JFK a day, though latterly with a couple of 777s in tow, but never used the A380. Now, I understand there's probably an issue with getting big enough gates at the far end (e.g. when Norwegian used the Hi-Fly A380 it had to go in during the dead of night), especially when BA had their own terminal but given they seem to be moving terminal, could BA be looking to consolidate the JFK operation to a couple of A380s a day plus some 777s for the freight?
The frequency of the flights is part of what made them so attractive I reckon. If you could buy a flexi fare and then take your pick from several flights per day it would be better than the inflexibility of your proposed alternative although I understand what you’re saying.The one thing that always got me about BA's 747 vs A380 operation was that they used to be happy to send flocks of 747s to JFK a day, though latterly with a couple of 777s in tow, but never used the A380. Now, I understand there's probably an issue with getting big enough gates at the far end (e.g. when Norwegian used the Hi-Fly A380 it had to go in during the dead of night), especially when BA had their own terminal but given they seem to be moving terminal, could BA be looking to consolidate the JFK operation to a couple of A380s a day plus some 777s for the freight?
The other factor might have been that the 747’s they used were ‘high J‘ (14F 86J seats) vs 14F 97J on the 380 so if they were filling a lot of those seats reducing the movements wouldn’t have made economic sense. I may be completely wrong of course and there’s a far more obvious explanation.
I’m sure once Asia and the US open up to us again a few 380 services will make sense again. The last 380 flight I took with BA was back from Jo’burg and it was packed.
When any service to and from USA will recommence is anyone's guess though. I was taking to a senior United employee at the weekend, who works in T2 at LHR, and he was very sceptical of seeing any return to flying to/from USA before the end of this year, due to the persistent issues around the virus in the USA.
aeropilot said:
I'm sure BA will return the A380 to LAX and SFO routes again once its deemed appropriate.
When any service to and from USA will recommence is anyone's guess though. I was taking to a senior United employee at the weekend, who works in T2 at LHR, and he was very sceptical of seeing any return to flying to/from USA before the end of this year, due to the persistent issues around the virus in the USA.
If that's going to be the case, one wonders if it would be worth their while taking some of the end-of-life 777s and totally gutting them to use as cabin freighters. I think Lufthansa and some others have already done that & apparently the Hi-Fly A380 is now missing a large percentage of its seats. From what I've seen, I think BA are just covering the seats but they're still in place.When any service to and from USA will recommence is anyone's guess though. I was taking to a senior United employee at the weekend, who works in T2 at LHR, and he was very sceptical of seeing any return to flying to/from USA before the end of this year, due to the persistent issues around the virus in the USA.
bit of a noob question,
What happens to the 747 pilots, Presuming the 747 captions and first officers would generally be among the more experienced pilots at BA as not many new pilots would of been put onto 747 type rating knowing they would be retired in the near future.
So you now have a load of experienced pilots with type ratings on 747 and no planes to fly, Are they going to be sent off on type ratings for 787/777/a350 or added to the short haul fleet? type ratings are im lead to believe expensive and how will their seniority factor in.
What happens to the 747 pilots, Presuming the 747 captions and first officers would generally be among the more experienced pilots at BA as not many new pilots would of been put onto 747 type rating knowing they would be retired in the near future.
So you now have a load of experienced pilots with type ratings on 747 and no planes to fly, Are they going to be sent off on type ratings for 787/777/a350 or added to the short haul fleet? type ratings are im lead to believe expensive and how will their seniority factor in.
PaulWoof said:
bit of a noob question,
What happens to the 747 pilots, Presuming the 747 captions and first officers would generally be among the more experienced pilots at BA as not many new pilots would of been put onto 747 type rating knowing they would be retired in the near future.
So you now have a load of experienced pilots with type ratings on 747 and no planes to fly, Are they going to be sent off on type ratings for 787/777/a350 or added to the short haul fleet? type ratings are im lead to believe expensive and how will their seniority factor in.
That's being currently argued over within BA......and not all current 747 flight crew are all senior close to retirement age. As shown elsewhere on PH a lot of BA 747 FO's have only recently (past few years) gone over to the 747 after BA stopped flying the 767, and some 767 Captains may have gone over the to 747 as well to replace retiring 747 Captains.What happens to the 747 pilots, Presuming the 747 captions and first officers would generally be among the more experienced pilots at BA as not many new pilots would of been put onto 747 type rating knowing they would be retired in the near future.
So you now have a load of experienced pilots with type ratings on 747 and no planes to fly, Are they going to be sent off on type ratings for 787/777/a350 or added to the short haul fleet? type ratings are im lead to believe expensive and how will their seniority factor in.
Some of the lucky ones might get retrained in the ways of Airbus to replace the existing Airbus crews getting moved up to the A350, but I suspect with only the 787 and 777 left from Boeing in the BA fleet, the vast majority of the 747 flight crews will be out of a job or being taking early retirement.
aeropilot said:
PaulWoof said:
bit of a noob question,
What happens to the 747 pilots, Presuming the 747 captions and first officers would generally be among the more experienced pilots at BA as not many new pilots would of been put onto 747 type rating knowing they would be retired in the near future.
So you now have a load of experienced pilots with type ratings on 747 and no planes to fly, Are they going to be sent off on type ratings for 787/777/a350 or added to the short haul fleet? type ratings are im lead to believe expensive and how will their seniority factor in.
That's being currently argued over within BA......and not all current 747 flight crew are all senior close to retirement age. As shown elsewhere on PH a lot of BA 747 FO's have only recently (past few years) gone over to the 747 after BA stopped flying the 767, and some 767 Captains may have gone over the to 747 as well to replace retiring 747 Captains.What happens to the 747 pilots, Presuming the 747 captions and first officers would generally be among the more experienced pilots at BA as not many new pilots would of been put onto 747 type rating knowing they would be retired in the near future.
So you now have a load of experienced pilots with type ratings on 747 and no planes to fly, Are they going to be sent off on type ratings for 787/777/a350 or added to the short haul fleet? type ratings are im lead to believe expensive and how will their seniority factor in.
Some of the lucky ones might get retrained in the ways of Airbus to replace the existing Airbus crews getting moved up to the A350, but I suspect with only the 787 and 777 left from Boeing in the BA fleet, the vast majority of the 747 flight crews will be out of a job or being taking early retirement.
How long before captains and first officers pack it in?
aeropilot said:
PaulWoof said:
bit of a noob question,
What happens to the 747 pilots, Presuming the 747 captions and first officers would generally be among the more experienced pilots at BA as not many new pilots would of been put onto 747 type rating knowing they would be retired in the near future.
So you now have a load of experienced pilots with type ratings on 747 and no planes to fly, Are they going to be sent off on type ratings for 787/777/a350 or added to the short haul fleet? type ratings are im lead to believe expensive and how will their seniority factor in.
That's being currently argued over within BA......and not all current 747 flight crew are all senior close to retirement age. As shown elsewhere on PH a lot of BA 747 FO's have only recently (past few years) gone over to the 747 after BA stopped flying the 767, and some 767 Captains may have gone over the to 747 as well to replace retiring 747 Captains.What happens to the 747 pilots, Presuming the 747 captions and first officers would generally be among the more experienced pilots at BA as not many new pilots would of been put onto 747 type rating knowing they would be retired in the near future.
So you now have a load of experienced pilots with type ratings on 747 and no planes to fly, Are they going to be sent off on type ratings for 787/777/a350 or added to the short haul fleet? type ratings are im lead to believe expensive and how will their seniority factor in.
Some of the lucky ones might get retrained in the ways of Airbus to replace the existing Airbus crews getting moved up to the A350, but I suspect with only the 787 and 777 left from Boeing in the BA fleet, the vast majority of the 747 flight crews will be out of a job or being taking early retirement.
Traditionally airlines operated by what was called LIFO (last in first out) there was a seniority list and the day you joined you were on the bottom, maybe next month some more pilots got recruited and some at the top retired you moved up a few places.
If there were any redundancies, the airline would work out how many had to go and those poor pilots would be removed from the bottom, regardless of fleet and there might need to be some reshuffling above them to get the numbers right. Which is obviously more expensive as it might involve people retraining on different types.
Recent thought, although it’s never actually been legally tested, is that LIFO is indirect age discrimination and not a legally robust way of making redundancy (as the youngest pilots tend to be the newest). So some airlines a few years ago made redundancy matrixes where LIFO was a factor but others like performance or disciplinary measures etc came into it also.
BA initially announced that pilots on fleets no longer needed would just be made redundant, ignoring lifo or any possible redundancy matrix completely.
Now the pilots’ union Balpa and the airline management are in negotiations about this, same is happening at other U.K. airlines where an entire base might be closing etc like in easyJet or ones where fleets are being reduced (similar to BA) like virgin.
It’s pretty unchartered waters for airlines at the moment. Most (U.K.) airlines have already announced large pilot redundancy numbers except Tui who have made an agreement where there’s no redundancy but everyone gets a pay cut until work picks up again. That kind of agreement is what other airlines unions are trying for now also. Unfortunately also some airlines are trying to reduce pay and conditions at the same time.
Obviously different airlines are going to be affected differently by covid depending on their route network and types of passenger etc they fly so the numbers of redundancy (if any) will vary between different types of airline.
Thankyou4calling said:
I’ve seen an Emirates 380 leaving Heathrow today. Saw one on Monday (I think) as well.
Would these be passenger services?
Is there sufficient demand?
Yeah, they will be PAX services, the A380 is notoriously bad for cargo hold weight restrictions, so is almost certainly not viable to run as a cargo only service. Would these be passenger services?
Is there sufficient demand?
EK have been using the 777 for cargo only flights.
towser44 said:
Yep, they re-start at Manchester twice daily 1st August with A380s too
Unfortunately not, they were scheduled to do so but it's been pushed back again.Still a 777 once a day until 1st October(!)
Then twice daily (1 777 and 1 380) from 1st October and then the 3rd daily service doesn't start up again until the end of March next year!
Sadly this change in schedule is hammering nails into my redundancy coffin.
djc206 said:
I’m sure once Asia and the US open up to us again a few 380 services will make sense again. The last 380 flight I took with BA was back from Jo’burg and it was packed.
Every BA flight I've ever taken between LHR and JNB has been packed.They used to run an A380 and a 747 with a 3rd flight added to the schedule some times of the year in a 787. Even flying 3 times per day all flights appeared to be packed.
Last year they moved to 2x A380s supplemented by a 787.
BA pricing really reflected the direct availability they had, I never got a business seat less than £5,000. Emirates would be around £3,500. South African also sub £4,000.
We've just set our budget for the year starting October - company wide, travel costs are on average 40% of the level we budgeted for the current year. If that is a similar position across many business travellers, then the number or routes the remaining A380s can be made use of on are going to be very limited.
I'm sure I saw one that's been repurposed for cargo. With weight limits as you note, but I guess someone decided there's enough demand to justify it
Kiribati268 said:
Yeah, they will be PAX services, the A380 is notoriously bad for cargo hold weight restrictions, so is almost certainly not viable to run as a cargo only service.
Here it is :
https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/a380-hi-fly...
Not a proper cargo config, for sure.
https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/a380-hi-fly...
Not a proper cargo config, for sure.
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