Does anyone know anything about this plane?

[Astacus]

This is my grandfathers plane. He may have built it himself as he was an engineer working at Shorts during the war. He flew it out of various small fields in Kent. The prop, which I still have, was dated September 1924, when he would have been 23.



I am trying to find any information I can on the plane so if anyone has any info or can suggest anywhere I can ask I would be very grateful

Thanks

[Tony1963]

I doubt I’ll be any use for this, but maybe some close up shots might help. Engine, prop, sides of the fuselage... just one detail might be all it needs for one of the forum’s proppa spottas

[Eric Mc]

My first thought was that it might be a Comper Swift - although it doesn't look tubby enough.



Can you make out any registration markings in the original picture?

[Astacus]

Thanks Both. I can't see the there are any markings on the visible portion o the fuselage, but there is something just behind the engine. The engine seems to be an inverted V twin, rather like a JAP. The plane looks very small. Probably a single seater with an open cockpit

[Astacus]

This is about as good as I can get on the side markings

|https://thumbsnap.com/rZXSOgbo[/url]

Could it be something like NATT? The problem is aircraft registrations for there period should be G-E*** or G-A*** post 1929

And this of the engine

Edited by Astacus on Thursday 16th April 17:06

[Eric Mc]

Anything letters visible under the wings? Up to 1930, British heavier than air aircraft carried registrations in the block G-Exxx For example, G-ECAN was/is a de Havilland DH84 Dragon (it still exists).



The system was revamped in 1930 and started again with G-AAAA.

[Astacus]

No Nothing under the wings. Too much shadow.

[Steve_D]

Have you taken the photo out of the frame to see if anything is written on the back? A very common practice back in the day.

Steve

[DavieBNL]

It looks extremely small and you say he flew in Kent. It may be worth doing some digging on flying that went on at Lympne during the 1920s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lympne_light_aircraf...

[Eric Mc]

Astacus said:

No Nothing under the wings. Too much shadow.

That's a pity because pre-World War 2, civil registration letters had to cover the entire wing span. This was an era before most aircraft were fitted with radio so visual identification of an aeroplane was essential. It was also great for plane spotters

[Simpo Two]

Astacus said:

Could it be something like NATT? The problem is aircraft registrations for there period should be G-E*** or G-A*** post 1929

The prop is 1924 so the photo could be pre-1929.

I guessed G-NATT, which is currently here: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-natt

However it's an odd place to put the reg number so perhaps it's to do with the engine.

The aeroplane might be a one-off.

[Eric Mc]

Simpo Two said:

The prop is 1924 so the photo could be pre-1929.

I guessed G-NATT, which is currently here: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-natt

There would have been no British regsitrations starting with "G-N..." back then. Registrations were issued pretty much in strict alphabetic order.

[Simpo Two]

Maybe someone at Shuttleworth might be able to throw some light on the mystery.

[Astacus]

Steve_D said:

Have you taken the photo out of the frame to see if anything is written on the back? A very common practice back in the day.

Steve

Yes, Its very firmly stuck to a mount board. I was told years ago the the photo came from Flight Magazine, but I don't think this is true. Flight is completely digitised and I have run searches with no luck.

[Astacus]

DavieBNL said:

It looks extremely small and you say he flew in Kent. It may be worth doing some digging on flying that went on at Lympne during the 1920s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lympne_light_aircraf...

Fascinating Wiki, thanks might be worth a look. Interesting that some of the planes listed had v twins or used motorcycle engines!

Edited by Astacus on Thursday 16th April 19:03

[Astacus]

Simpo Two said:

The prop is 1924 so the photo could be pre-1929.

I guessed G-NATT, which is currently here: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-natt

However it's an odd place to put the reg number so perhaps it's to do with the engine.

The aeroplane might be a one-off.

Family legend is that he built it himself using tea crates, but this is probably another dead end. There are many Many family legends about my Grandfather and most of them seem to have been made up by my Grandmother.

[Astacus]

Simpo Two said:

Maybe someone at Shuttleworth might be able to throw some light on the mystery.

Yes. I emailed them a couple of years ago, but they never got back to me.
Latest idea is to see if his pilots license was registered with the aero club.

[GliderRider]

The Shuttleworth Collection at Old Warden in Bedfordshire have both originals and replicas of a number of aircraft that took part in the 1923 and 1924 Lympne Light Aeroplane Trials. If you post your picture on their Facebook page, someone should be able to help.

The only inverted V-Twin engine to which I can find a reference is the Blackburne Tomtit, and that doesn't have those distinctive chrome discs on the valve rocker shafts.

There is always a possibility that it was assembled from bits from other aircraft, as a lot of this went on. Some aircraft appeared both as monoplanes and biplanes, or first high wing , then low wing.

[Astacus]

Thanks , yes I had just alighted on the B&B Tomtit engine.



there are some tempting similarities, but as you say the shiny discs over the rockers are absent. The crank case and the exhausts are similar. It's tempting to imagine you can see the crank case bolts to the side and the central bolt. Maybe it had some sort of modified cylinder head.

Edited by Astacus on Thursday 16th April 19:26

[Dr Jekyll]

Eric Mc said:

Anything letters visible under the wings? Up to 1930, British heavier than air aircraft carried registrations in the block G-Exxx For example, G-ECAN was/is a de Havilland DH84 Dragon (it still exists).



The system was revamped in 1930 and started again with G-AAAA.

Although that Dragon was built during WW2 so not a good example.