Paddle Boarding

[monthou]

hopeydaze said:

Talking about safety, I’m thinking about starting to paddle board on rivers. However I’m concerned about other river users, in particular rowers who do everything backwards. How do they see and avoid SUPs?

You see them and keep out of their way. It's not like they're unpredictable.
Or shout out!

[CharlieAlphaMike]

monthou said:

hopeydaze said:

Talking about safety, I’m thinking about starting to paddle board on rivers. However I’m concerned about other river users, in particular rowers who do everything backwards. How do they see and avoid SUPs?

You see them and keep out of their way. It's not like they're unpredictable.
Or shout out!

As above.

You'll be standing up on your board (won't you? ) so you'll have a better view than most other people.

If they're creeping up behind you, That's a slightly different problem. You just have to keep turning your head to see what's around. I had two sailing yachts creep up on me a couple of years ago. They were racing each other and were no more than 20 metres apart. They came up so fast and gave no warning I only saw them at the last minute and had to gybe away quickly. They would have hit me if I hadn't been so quick to react. Complete morons but the exception to the rule I think.

[mcdjl]

hopeydaze said:

Talking about safety, I’m thinking about starting to paddle board on rivers. However I’m concerned about other river users, in particular rowers who do everything backwards. How do they see and avoid SUPs?

Row boats tend to stay on very specific bits of river, generally near rowing clubs. If you avoid those then you're generally ok as most other river users get out of each others way and look where they're going.

[RammyMP]

monthou said:

hopeydaze said:

Talking about safety, I’m thinking about starting to paddle board on rivers. However I’m concerned about other river users, in particular rowers who do everything backwards. How do they see and avoid SUPs?

You see them and keep out of their way. It's not like they're unpredictable.
Or shout out!

I was on Windermere a few weeks ago and heard a loud honking, I was oblivious paddling away, looked behind me and it was one of the tourist boats bearing down on me! I moved out the way but by rights they should have been avoiding me.

[Disastrous]

CharlieAlphaMike said:

Disastrous said:

Anyone had a go of an 13’ 2” Red Paddle Voyager?

For context I do a lot of open-ocean/downwind paddling and have Starboard Pinetek 14’ hard board as my main board.

I want an inflatable for travel/taking my kid/dog out so needs to fill a wide range of tasks.

I’m put off by the twin fin setup, but think the V Hull sways me over the 12’ 6” Red Paddle sport which would have been my default choice, as I suspect that is going to break through bigger swell better.

Anyone ridden both and have any thoughts on what catching a bump is like on these/what their sea manners are like? Appreciate it’s not going to worry my hard board but I’d like to get as close as I can.

I haven't ridden either of the boards you mentioned but given your intended use, that stability will be the priority. The question is, how stable is a SUP with a V-shaped hull? Your hardboard will always be your default choice for those perfect SUP days so that will be your 'performance' board. As you've said, an iSUP won't perform in the same way as your hardboard (although technology has improved massively in recent years).

You know already that a multi-fin setup will give you more control in the surf, will track better but will create more drag than a single fin. With children or dogs on board, that might be what you need.

Not much help I know but that's all I've got.

Cheers CAM - appreciate you replying.

In the end I went with neither!

My research led me to the conclusion that the Red Paddle was a bit Emperor’s New Clothes and not actually that good.

I was in a bit of an analysis paralysis until reading that the Australian maker Honu has recently started supplying the UK. These guys are meant to make phenomenally stiff and light iSUPs with carbon stringers and rails.

They do a 12’6 single fin in a classic touring shape which seems to neatly fit the bill so I’ve ordered one. Arrives tomorrow and I’ll report back as soon as I get it wet.

In other news, I’m heading to Islay for a few days soon. Trying to decide if I’m brave enough to paddle “The Rhinns of Islay” on my own or not (obviously weather decides) but with 8kt tidal streams, shipwreck rocks and so on it is decidedly daunting. Exciting though…

[mcdjl]

Disastrous said:

Cheers CAM - appreciate you replying.

In the end I went with neither!

My research led me to the conclusion that the Red Paddle was a bit Emperor’s New Clothes and not actually that good.

I was in a bit of an analysis paralysis until reading that the Australian maker Honu has recently started supplying the UK. These guys are meant to make phenomenally stiff and light iSUPs with carbon stringers and rails.

They do a 12’6 single fin in a classic touring shape which seems to neatly fit the bill so I’ve ordered one. Arrives tomorrow and I’ll report back as soon as I get it wet.

In other news, I’m heading to Islay for a few days soon. Trying to decide if I’m brave enough to paddle “The Rhinns of Islay” on my own or not (obviously weather decides) but with 8kt tidal streams, shipwreck rocks and so on it is decidedly daunting. Exciting though…

8kt is fast. While I've no idea how fast you are that'll be hard work to paddle with, never mind against. I'd find an easier first paddle for a new toy personally.

[Disastrous]

mcdjl said:

Disastrous said:

Cheers CAM - appreciate you replying.

In the end I went with neither!

My research led me to the conclusion that the Red Paddle was a bit Emperor’s New Clothes and not actually that good.

I was in a bit of an analysis paralysis until reading that the Australian maker Honu has recently started supplying the UK. These guys are meant to make phenomenally stiff and light iSUPs with carbon stringers and rails.

They do a 12’6 single fin in a classic touring shape which seems to neatly fit the bill so I’ve ordered one. Arrives tomorrow and I’ll report back as soon as I get it wet.

In other news, I’m heading to Islay for a few days soon. Trying to decide if I’m brave enough to paddle “The Rhinns of Islay” on my own or not (obviously weather decides) but with 8kt tidal streams, shipwreck rocks and so on it is decidedly daunting. Exciting though…

8kt is fast. While I've no idea how fast you are that'll be hard work to paddle with, never mind against. I'd find an easier first paddle for a new toy personally.

I’m not taking an inflatable out in that!

If there’s a weather window and a favourable tide it’ll be on the hard board if at all. You can’t paddle against an 8kt tidal race but what makes the Rhinns particularly challenging is that there are a lot of reefs and drying rocks which create brutal overfall and eddy currents.

It’s a massive maybe, even on the hard board and obviously will have VHF, PFD etc etc.

Hard to find good info on it as it seems whilst it’s a mighty challenge for a sea kayak, nobody has done it (and written about it) on a SUP.




ETA - these rocks just offshore have to be navigated past (which makes me involuntarily jaw clenched just looking at them)



But the price for making it though is your own beach, just around the corner:



You’ll just need to wait there for 6 hours until the tide turns about can get back

Edited by Disastrous on Thursday 3rd August 07:38

[mcdjl]

I did think I might be warning my grandmother about sucking eggs. That looks like sea kayak territory, not sup to me!

[OutInTheShed]

monthou said:

hopeydaze said:

Talking about safety, I’m thinking about starting to paddle board on rivers. However I’m concerned about other river users, in particular rowers who do everything backwards. How do they see and avoid SUPs?

You see them and keep out of their way. It's not like they're unpredictable.
Or shout out!

With rowers, you need to be careful.
On rivers (like anywhere else) you need to be aware of local regulations which may mean you have to keep clear of rowers.

In some places there is 'politics' around who is paying to use the waterway and who is not.
Try not to upset other users, it will reduce the calls for more regulation.

Shouting at other water users is not a good look and often ineffective.

Generally everyone needs to keep some sort of 360 degree lookout and not let yachts etc creep up on them.

[Disastrous]

mcdjl said:

I did think I might be warning my grandmother about sucking eggs. That looks like sea kayak territory, not sup to me!

It is. Absolutely right. And even then, those waters seem to be considered pretty daunting by the sea kayak crowd from the reports I’ve read.

That said, (and I’ll probably do another post on this if everyone is interested) but I have a long-term goal to try and compete in the Maui to Molokai ocean race which is 26 miles through Pacific swell, so need to put the heavy water hours in.

And I’d argue that a proper hard board has some advantages over a kayak. Slower obviously, so harder to go against a headwind, but the shape and fin setup makes them better suited to running with a tide/swell and you can ‘catch a bump’ in open water and ride it for several hundred metres. Also a viewpoint that the standing position lets you spot crests and breakers better and if you do get knocked off, you just get back on. Kayaks (unless you are able to roll) seem to be a lot more faff (though I’m not an expert).

What I would say to anyone thinking about this is that you need to do almost more work before the paddle. Tidal stream atlases, nautical chart, weather, escape routes, get-outs and put-ins are critical. You need to know the water in your mind before you set off I think, know your tides and have an idea of your speed/times as a stream like that will give you a limited window for success.

Personally, whilst I’ll wear a waist belt on sunny tropical days or whatever, I’d never consider going out in this without wetsuit, proper BA, knife, compass, whistle, VHF, flare etc etc.

It’s been said before but the leash is the single most important thing you have as your board is your primary buoyancy and you need to be attached to it.

My worry on this one is rocks really. Fully kitted out, I’m normally pretty sanguine as you can just float and wait it out. But getting dashed to bits against a sea cliff will ruin your day pretty fast so very much ‘doing the homework’ on this one.

[CharlieAlphaMike]

Disastrous said:

Cheers CAM - appreciate you replying.

In the end I went with neither!

My research led me to the conclusion that the Red Paddle was a bit Emperor’s New Clothes and not actually that good.

I was in a bit of an analysis paralysis until reading that the Australian maker Honu has recently started supplying the UK. These guys are meant to make phenomenally stiff and light iSUPs with carbon stringers and rails.

They do a 12’6 single fin in a classic touring shape which seems to neatly fit the bill so I’ve ordered one. Arrives tomorrow and I’ll report back as soon as I get it wet.

In other news, I’m heading to Islay for a few days soon. Trying to decide if I’m brave enough to paddle “The Rhinns of Islay” on my own or not (obviously weather decides) but with 8kt tidal streams, shipwreck rocks and so on it is decidedly daunting. Exciting though…

I knew that you knew which is why I wasn't going to comment too much

I'm guessing the Honu board is the Honu Sorrento? I couldn't find much information online (nothing on Honu's website) but from what I did find, it looks like a lovely board. My iSUP is a 14' x 26" x 6" which weighs in at 12kg. At just under 10kg, I think the two boards are quite close in terms of their weight but nevertheless,10kg is light for a SUP. I'd love to know how you get on with it and I'll be interested to hear how it compares with your Rigid SUP.

With regard to your planned trip around Islay. Are you planning on paddling around the whole island? Or just part of it? Distance wise, it's not too far but it will certainly be challenging great fun. Navionics confirms there are a lot of hazards around the whole of the island and some deep ocean to the East (some distance from the shore so hopefully not an issue for you) of the island. If I was in the UK, I'd volunteer to do it with you.

I know I don't need to tell you but as well as all your safety equipment, can I suggest you inform the coastguard of your plans and timescales? If you're in contact with them via VHF, you will have covered all bases. I really hope the weather is kind to you and look forward to hearing more about the paddle.

I'm interested to know what type of paddle you'll be using. With all the rock hazards, I'd be in two minds about whether to use my full carbon paddle (I'd hate to damage it on the rocks) or a cheap nylon/aluminium paddle (tougher but not as nice or as efficient to use).

With regard to the Maui to Molokai ocean race. That's going to be a whole different challenge. The distance should be...errr...doable but that's the easy bit. As you said, the hard work will all be done beforehand. Good luck with that and please keep us updated.

[OutInTheShed]

The advantage of kayaks over SUPs is the centre of gravity is much lower, and you have a much better connection to use your body weight to control the boat. Also, you have pretty instant support from the paddles.

Some people are pretty good with SUPs in rough water and surf, but they seem mostly to have been pretty competent surfers as a starting point and they put a lot of hours in. The good guys are great to watch, they will catch waves which 'paddle-less' surfers cannot get to.
But I'm too old and lazy for that.

By comparison, a surf canoe is so easy, it's probably cheating.

Most rough water around the Uk is about the tide, it's much flatter at slack water and it makes a huge difference if the wind and tide are opposed.
There is a lot of info available about tide streams relative to HW times, but much of it falls apart right close to the shore where not many boats go, the tide turns earlier at the shore for one thing. Some places it turns ealier at neaps than springs or v/v. Around here, people racing dinghies have a lot of local knowledge that's not written down.

[monthou]

OutInTheShed said:

Shouting at other water users is not a good look and often ineffective.

Shouting out is a bloody good idea if you're about to have a collision.
'Not a good look'? What on earth?

[OutInTheShed]

monthou said:

OutInTheShed said:

Shouting at other water users is not a good look and often ineffective.

Shouting out is a bloody good idea if you're about to have a collision.
'Not a good look'? What on earth?

When it's you who should be keeping clear, better to STFU and keep clear.

[monthou]

OutInTheShed said:

monthou said:

OutInTheShed said:

Shouting at other water users is not a good look and often ineffective.

Shouting out is a bloody good idea if you're about to have a collision.
'Not a good look'? What on earth?

When it's you who should be keeping clear, better to STFU and keep clear.

Obviously the idea is to keep clear.
What do you do when something's gone wrong and a collision's about to happen though? Keep quiet because shouting's not the done thing?
FFS.

[croyde]

So it's been 3 years since I bought my board after a wobbly lesson on the tidal Thames which started with my legs almost spasming, I say almost, they were shaking like crazy as the instructor told me to stand up.

But I relaxed into it and enjoyed the glide with the tide, lunch then back with the turning tide.

Only been on the Thames near Walton and on the sea off of the Isle of Skye on my own board.

Not been on mine at all this year but hired a board last week in Thassos, from a tourist shop on the beach near the port.

The owner took it straight down to the sea through all the sun beds and threw it on the water, ignoring my request for me to carry it to our quiet part of the sand

So I got on it fully dressed, phone and money in my pockets, and paddled it out on my knees to beach it where my friend had bagged a spot under the shade of a big tree. It was 30c plus.

Once dressed for the sea, a rash vest, long shorts, reef shoes and a hat, I burn in front of a 60w bulb, I headed out.

But could I stand, no! it was like day one. Legs shaking and despite the heat I didn't want to fall in as there were a lot of rocks just below the surface.

Stuck to staying on my knees then let my friend have a go. She's never been on a SUP before and her attempts to stand were like mine but she did manage it........before me

I did stand second time out but still didn't feel confident and to think I have managed to survive the wakes of fast boats on the Thames and have paddled standing up for hours, especially up in Skye.

So begs the question, seeing that it was a rental hanging outside a shop, I reckon it had been well used and the pressure not checked as there was a lot of give. It was bending where I stood and my feet were feeling a lot of give.

Would the fact that it was not rigid make it harder to stand up?

Hoping that's the answer, not that I was being crap

[markymarkthree]

croyde said:

So it's been 3 years since I bought my board after a wobbly lesson on the tidal Thames which started with my legs almost spasming, I say almost, they were shaking like crazy as the instructor told me to stand up.

But I relaxed into it and enjoyed the glide with the tide, lunch then back with the turning tide.

Only been on the Thames near Walton and on the sea off of the Isle of Skye on my own board.

Not been on mine at all this year but hired a board last week in Thassos, from a tourist shop on the beach near the port.

The owner took it straight down to the sea through all the sun beds and threw it on the water, ignoring my request for me to carry it to our quiet part of the sand

So I got on it fully dressed, phone and money in my pockets, and paddled it out on my knees to beach it where my friend had bagged a spot under the shade of a big tree. It was 30c plus.

Once dressed for the sea, a rash vest, long shorts, reef shoes and a hat, I burn in front of a 60w bulb, I headed out.

But could I stand, no! it was like day one. Legs shaking and despite the heat I didn't want to fall in as there were a lot of rocks just below the surface.

Stuck to staying on my knees then let my friend have a go. She's never been on a SUP before and her attempts to stand were like mine but she did manage it........before me

I did stand second time out but still didn't feel confident and to think I have managed to survive the wakes of fast boats on the Thames and have paddled standing up for hours, especially up in Skye.

So begs the question, seeing that it was a rental hanging outside a shop, I reckon it had been well used and the pressure not checked as there was a lot of give. It was bending where I stood and my feet were feeling a lot of give.

Would the fact that it was not rigid make it harder to stand up?

Hoping that's the answer, not that I was being crap

Simple answer, yes.
I like mine to be about 15lbs.
Also if it was a narrower board than what you are used to, that could also make a difference.

[Disastrous]

I was going to say ‘not fully inflated’ before you even asked the question.

I hate when rental places do this - makes the experience absolute dogst if you’re not an experienced paddler and properly puts people off.

But very short answer: It was the board.

[CharlieAlphaMike]

croyde. Your question has been answered already.

Personally, I'd have insisted the owner inflated the board to the right pressure before I went out. Don't let it spoil things for you though. Just get out on your own board more often. Practice makes perfect so even on an underinflated board, you could still have some fun.

[croyde]

CharlieAlphaMike said:

croyde. Your question has been answered already.

Personally, I'd have insisted the owner inflated the board to the right pressure before I went out. Don't let it spoil things for you though. Just get out on your own board more often. Practice makes perfect so even on an underinflated board, you could still have some fun.

Cheers. We did have fun, even went two up.

Tried that with my son in Skye before but he's much bigger than me so we ended up with some sort of submersible