Hawker Typhoon rebuild

[Eric Mc]

I’ve chatted to these guys at Farnborough and Duxford.

[eccles]

Cheeky Jim said:

I completely get the desire to have an original, that would always be the primary goal I think. But I'd not really thought about all the approvals etc that needs to be completed to get a(ny) design into the air. I guess that it all boils down to the cost / value discussion.

Just seems sad, there are so many beautiful older aircraft of which there are none left, but with some creative design could be made again using modern materials...although i'm not sure how easy it would be to build a brand new Merlin engine for example from scratch!

I guess its just too difficult/expensive and never going to be enough volume to make it worthwhile.

You mention building old aircraft out of modern materials.... the thing is although modern sheet metal isn't exactly the same spec as the wartime stuff, most modern, metal aircraft up to pretty recently, are built the same way as the old stuff.

They're still frames , longerons, stringers and skins. Up until a few years ago, the same spec rivets were used as the wartime ones, and the more modern universal type rivets aren't far off the same spec as the old ones. We still use tools that are the same or very similar to the tools they used back in wartime to put the things together .

If you went for composite construction, then it will be a designed from scratch aircraft, with all the associated costs that entails.

[aeropilot]

Tempest_5 said:

They have a significant amount of structure and a Napier Sabre.

The issue though, is that there is a significant difference between having a Napier Sabre, and having a flight capable and airworthy Napier Sabre

[lufbramatt]

aeropilot said:

Tempest_5 said:

They have a significant amount of structure and a Napier Sabre.

The issue though, is that there is a significant difference between having a Napier Sabre, and having a flight capable and airworthy Napier Sabre

IIRC they don't even know if its internally complete, don't think they've opened it up, just weighed it to see if it was vaguely near the book weight.

[Tempest_5]

Working as a project engineer in aerospace I appreciate the aggro getting a fully functioning Napier Sabre running and certified for flight, but they have to start somewhere.

Though on a far smaller scale I have had a few car engines that I have had to resurrect over the years. Though they only had 4 cylinders, not 24, and were conventional and nowhere near as complex. They started out as less than pristine.

Who knows, they might start a small renaissance in Napier engines. That would be something, a Typhoon & Tempest 5 in the air together.

There is a Tempest 5 project that has been knocking around for years. I'm not sure of it's current status. It always seems to be on the verge of getting somewhere then petters out for a bit.

Anyway, at least they don't have the Beaufighter rebuild engine issues.

Here is some more info,

https://vintageaviationecho.com/hawker-typhoon-rb3...

The Vintage Aviation Echo website is a good read in general if you are that way inclined.

[KR158]

Hi,

I've an interest in this era of Aircraft but generally my knowledge is pretty limited to the more obvious stuff. Can I ask, what's the difference between a Typhoon & a Tempest? They look pretty similar, is one a derivitive of the other? Any explanation is gratefuly recieved.

[Yertis]

KR158 said:

Hi,

I've an interest in this era of Aircraft but generally my knowledge is pretty limited to the more obvious stuff. Can I ask, what's the difference between a Typhoon & a Tempest? They look pretty similar, is one a derivitive of the other? Any explanation is gratefuly recieved.

We had a bit of a ding-dong about this on here the other day. The Tempest is an evolution of the Typhoon, with a longer fuselage and thinner, elliptical-shape wings. The Tempest delivered the performance the Typhoon had promised, and with a lot of the Typhoon's bugs ironed out for good measure. There are, of course, other details but that's the nub of it.

I love both, the Tempest in particular (although not quite enough to name myself after it )

[KR158]

Apologies for missing the earlier discussion, I've no idea how on earth I missed that in the vastness of a whole two Pages!

I'm really looking forward to this project taking shape and, hopefully to the skies shortly thereafter. Apparently the Napier Sabre produces a sound like nothing else. Definitely something to look forward to!

[Yertis]

KR158 said:

Apologies for missing the earlier discussion, I've no idea how on earth I missed that in the vastness of a whole two Pages!

Don't worry I wasn't having a dig, it was another thread about Typhoons, weeks ago. I only mentioned it in passing.

[saaby93]

KR158 said:

Apologies for missing the earlier discussion, I've no idea how on earth I missed that in the vastness of a whole two Pages!

I'm really looking forward to this project taking shape and, hopefully to the skies shortly thereafter. Apparently the Napier Sabre produces a sound like nothing else. Definitely something to look forward to!

-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsQZjkn5qLs

[KR158]

Yertis said:

Don't worry I wasn't having a dig, it was another thread about Typhoons, weeks ago. I only mentioned it in passing.

Oh, good grief, it never occured to me that anyone might be having a dig, not at all, I was making fun of myself, so don't worry.

I'm far too easy going to worry about stuff like that, inferred, acidental or otherwise

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I'd been pondering the differences between the two types recently anyway, so was glad to have someone definitively answer it for me. Much appreciated.

[KR158]

saaby93 said:

KR158 said:

Apologies for missing the earlier discussion, I've no idea how on earth I missed that in the vastness of a whole two Pages!

I'm really looking forward to this project taking shape and, hopefully to the skies shortly thereafter. Apparently the Napier Sabre produces a sound like nothing else. Definitely something to look forward to!

-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsQZjkn5qLs

Enjoyed that! Thank you for posting.

[Eric Mc]

KR158 said:

Oh, good grief, it never occured to me that anyone might be having a dig, not at all, I was making fun of myself, so don't worry.

I'm far too easy going to worry about stuff like that, inferred, acidental or otherwise

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I'd been pondering the differences between the two types recently anyway, so was glad to have someone definitively answer it for me. Much appreciated.

There were also quite significant differences between different versions of the Typhoon and different versions of the Tempest.

Typhoon prototype -



Early production version -



Later production variant -



Tempest MkII -



Tempest V -

[Dr Jekyll]

You can see the Hurricane ancestry in the first picture.

[Scotty2]

Fantastic animations. Hypnotic even:

https://www.hawkertempest.se/index.php/contributio...



https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2...

Edited by Scotty2 on Thursday 3rd December 12:18

[saaby93]

Technology moves on
air cooled V12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bq73voK5dA

and then the jet engine came to town
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkbExzH-5tQ

[KR158]

Eric Mc said:

KR158 said:

Oh, good grief, it never occured to me that anyone might be having a dig, not at all, I was making fun of myself, so don't worry.

I'm far too easy going to worry about stuff like that, inferred, acidental or otherwise

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I'd been pondering the differences between the two types recently anyway, so was glad to have someone definitively answer it for me. Much appreciated.

There were also quite significant differences between different versions of the Typhoon and different versions of the Tempest.

Typhoon prototype -



Early production version -



Later production variant -



Tempest MkII -



Tempest V -

The Hurricane lineage is easy to see. Thank you for posting these Pictures, it really illustrates the variations, evolution & differences. Thanks for that.

[Ayahuasca]

KR158 said:

The Hurricane lineage is easy to see. Thank you for posting these Pictures, it really illustrates the variations, evolution & differences. Thanks for that.

Remove the rudder from the Tempest’s fin and ...... Hawker Harrier fin!

[Dr Jekyll]

Ayahuasca said:

Remove the rudder from the Tempest’s fin and ...... Hawker Harrier fin!

Or Hunter or Hawk fin.

[saaby93]

they werent designing planes from scratch nor the factories to assemble them - time was short.
Amazing engine