Discussion
Simpo Two said:
youngsyr said:
Does it though - he had to take deliberate actions at the start of the flight (overpower/lock Co pilot out), lower cabin pressure, change course, then just sit there for 6 hours doing absolutely nothing.
Not forgetting killing 238 people along with himself.
Any suicide is difficult to understand, but this must be the most bizarre one ever?
You're judging it with a sane mind. Of course suicide requires 'deliberate actions', even if it's just jumping off a motorway bridge.Not forgetting killing 238 people along with himself.
Any suicide is difficult to understand, but this must be the most bizarre one ever?
A few years ago a German pilot deliberately flew an airliner into a mountain, killing all on board. Insanity and rational thought are generally mutually exclusive.
As for MH370, I heard that the u/c was down when it hit - the thought being that it would cause the wreckage to break up further.
It's a well hidden fact that people killing themselves is actually quite common. Around 4x more people kill themselves each year than die in road accidents in the UK. It's around 15 per day.
Murder suicides are incredibly rare though, even more so when the victims are strangers.
If this was a murder suicide, then it is unique in history in the manner in which it was performed - the German pilot you mentioned crashed the plane not long after take off, IIRC. He didn't wait 6 hours before taking control of the plane and crashing it.
youngsyr said:
Does it though - he had to take deliberate actions at the start of the flight (overpower/lock Co pilot out), lower cabin pressure, change course, then just sit there for 6 hours doing absolutely nothing.
Not forgetting killing 238 people along with himself.
Any suicide is difficult to understand, but this must be the most bizarre one ever?
Yes it does. As we don’t know for sure, we can only go by what we do know, and theorise accordingly. So given that, please describe a scenario that fits the circumstances better than a murder-suicide by pilot. Something that sadly isn’t at all uncommon, with numerous documented incidents in the history books, and doubtless others.Not forgetting killing 238 people along with himself.
Any suicide is difficult to understand, but this must be the most bizarre one ever?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_pilot
youngsyr said:
If this was a murder suicide, then it is unique in history in the manner in which it was performed - the German pilot you mentioned crashed the plane not long after take off, IIRC. He didn't wait 6 hours before taking control of the plane and crashing it.
And even more rare with a lack of history of illness. The German guy had a history of mental health issues that should have been brought to the attention of authorities, but wasn’t.MH370 pilots there was zilch IIRC.
This is the best interview I've heard on the subject, the interviewee Jeff Wise seems very well researched and knowledgeable and presents lots of still as yet unanswered questions without any wild speculation or conspiracy theories.
Particularly regarding the disabling of the on board satellite tracking system which seems far from a simple case of flipping a switch, also the highly dubious circumstances under which most of the few bits of wreckage have been found and the wreckage itself not being in quite the condition it would typically have expected to be in...
https://youtu.be/49SFLRDoGw0
Particularly regarding the disabling of the on board satellite tracking system which seems far from a simple case of flipping a switch, also the highly dubious circumstances under which most of the few bits of wreckage have been found and the wreckage itself not being in quite the condition it would typically have expected to be in...
https://youtu.be/49SFLRDoGw0
youngsyr said:
The problem is that you can justify any interpretation with that logic - he was insane, therefore he was possible of anything.
Precisely my point.YOU would not wish to fly six hours to Nowheresville to lose an aeroplane without trace, but I suggest he did: 'I'll make sure they never find me OR the plane' he said, 'It will be a mystery for all time and I will have created it, I will have true power at last'.
Mad? Bingo.
dvs_dave said:
es it does. As we don’t know for sure, we can only go by what we do know, and theorise accordingly. So given that, please describe a scenario that fits the circumstances better than a murder-suicide by pilot. Something that sadly isn’t at all uncommon, with numerous documented incidents in the history books, and doubtless others.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_pilot
Just to qualify the "isn't at all uncommon" comment - within that data there are only 8 I can see that involve large passenger carrying aircraft: not unreasonably, a couple of those are supposition without clear evidence, as with MH370. The majority of the rest are single pilot/single fatality. Murder/suicide with a large aircraft is very uncommon, as a percentage of passenger miles flown.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_pilot
Watching this at the moment.
Beachcomber fella seems like a charlatan.
Aviation journo seems far too attached to his conspiracy theory.
It is odd how the aircraft flew without any civilian radar picking it up in numerous countries, be it air traffic control, or anything else. Not sure you can turn yourself off radar, other than maybe a transponder.
INMARSAT providing Comms to the US military doesn't mean they would fabricate data. Why would they?
It's still all interesting regardless of the loons.
Beachcomber fella seems like a charlatan.
Aviation journo seems far too attached to his conspiracy theory.
It is odd how the aircraft flew without any civilian radar picking it up in numerous countries, be it air traffic control, or anything else. Not sure you can turn yourself off radar, other than maybe a transponder.
INMARSAT providing Comms to the US military doesn't mean they would fabricate data. Why would they?
It's still all interesting regardless of the loons.
youngsyr said:
Does it though - he had to take deliberate actions at the start of the flight (overpower/lock Co pilot out), lower cabin pressure, change course, then just sit there for 6 hours doing absolutely nothing.
Not forgetting killing 238 people along with himself.
Any suicide is difficult to understand, but this must be the most bizarre one ever?
As soon as he'd done what he needed to do he would have just taken off his oxygen mask and fallen unconscious with the rest. Not forgetting killing 238 people along with himself.
Any suicide is difficult to understand, but this must be the most bizarre one ever?
People who do this stuff are cowards so there's no way he stayed awake until the end.
It seems a bit contradictory that the pilot has gone to so much planning and preparation to carry out his masterplan and yet not left any form of note behind detailing what he's done and why he's done it.
I would have thought having gone into so much planning in order to carry this out he would want some form of recognition of his genius or want to raise publicity for whatever issue it was he possibly had a grudge about.
Most criminals carrying out what they consider to be the perfect crime usually want to earn recognition of their genius and achieve a form of notoriety, even if it is posthumously.
I would have thought having gone into so much planning in order to carry this out he would want some form of recognition of his genius or want to raise publicity for whatever issue it was he possibly had a grudge about.
Most criminals carrying out what they consider to be the perfect crime usually want to earn recognition of their genius and achieve a form of notoriety, even if it is posthumously.
MarkwG said:
dvs_dave said:
Yes it does. As we don’t know for sure, we can only go by what we do know, and theorise accordingly. So given that, please describe a scenario that fits the circumstances better than a murder-suicide by pilot. Something that sadly isn’t at all uncommon, with numerous documented incidents in the history books, and doubtless others.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_pilot
Just to qualify the "isn't at all uncommon" comment - within that data there are only 8 I can see that involve large passenger carrying aircraft: not unreasonably, a couple of those are supposition without clear evidence, as with MH370. The majority of the rest are single pilot/single fatality. Murder/suicide with a large aircraft is very uncommon, as a percentage of passenger miles flown.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_pilot
Of course there could be other explanations, but none fit the circumstances anywhere near as well. Additional evidence would need to present itself before other possibilities could be reasonably considered, and so far it hasn’t.
dvs_dave said:
MarkwG said:
dvs_dave said:
Yes it does. As we don’t know for sure, we can only go by what we do know, and theorise accordingly. So given that, please describe a scenario that fits the circumstances better than a murder-suicide by pilot. Something that sadly isn’t at all uncommon, with numerous documented incidents in the history books, and doubtless others.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_pilot
Just to qualify the "isn't at all uncommon" comment - within that data there are only 8 I can see that involve large passenger carrying aircraft: not unreasonably, a couple of those are supposition without clear evidence, as with MH370. The majority of the rest are single pilot/single fatality. Murder/suicide with a large aircraft is very uncommon, as a percentage of passenger miles flown.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_pilot
Of course there could be other explanations, but none fit the circumstances anywhere near as well. Additional evidence would need to present itself before other possibilities could be reasonably considered, and so far it hasn’t.
MarkwG said:
Not semantics, thanks, analysis of the data. Eight times barely registers as a statistic, let alone qualifies as common. Naturally, it's heart breaking & horrendous for anyone involved, but exaggerating the likelihood isn't helpful.
Ok cool. What do you think happened, and why?jan8p said:
youngsyr said:
If this was a murder suicide, then it is unique in history in the manner in which it was performed - the German pilot you mentioned crashed the plane not long after take off, IIRC. He didn't wait 6 hours before taking control of the plane and crashing it.
And even more rare with a lack of history of illness. The German guy had a history of mental health issues that should have been brought to the attention of authorities, but wasn’t.MH370 pilots there was zilch IIRC.
Teddy Lop said:
No expert on Malaysian culture but I'd wager talking about such stuff is not the done thing, compared to the west. Could also explain why he'd go to inexplicable seeming lengths to cover up the deed, family shame and all that.
So then why do it in such a way. Just quietly go snd hang yourself in the woods.There was a study years ago and they classified typed of suicide and one definitely involved taking others with them, but in those instances they almost wanted the infamy in death.
I do though think out of all the possibilities that pilot suicide is the most likely. But it still has a fair few unanswered questions.
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