MH370

[Otispunkmeyer]

Scabutz said:

jan8p said:

Watched the Netflix documentary on this, just seems to be full of crazy conspiracy theories.

Yeah was a bit disappointed with that. Of course because no one knows they can't present any facts but I would have like to seen some slightly less unhinged "experts" and their crackpot theories.

Especially the French woman, ooh secret cargo, AWACS jamming, then shooting it out of the sky. Yeah OK, sounds entirely plausible despite you having 0 evidence. Still got a book out of it didn't she.

I didn't think AWACS had jamming? if its Jamming then it can't do its actual job surely which is listening?

[mikeswagon]

I took about 3 attempts to get through it all, and still non the wiser.

About the only thing I took from it, was from the guy leading up the search crew on the boats "Opinions are like aholes, we've all got them..."

[Scabutz]

Otispunkmeyer said:

I didn't think AWACS had jamming? if its Jamming then it can't do its actual job surely which is listening?

No I didn't think it did either which is what made her theory all the more batst. Someone told her that it did and she just ran with it

It would be useless to have jamming it wouldn't be able to get close enough to anything, not exactly inconspicuous a plane is it.

[youngsyr]

Scabutz said:

Otispunkmeyer said:

I didn't think AWACS had jamming? if its Jamming then it can't do its actual job surely which is listening?

No I didn't think it did either which is what made her theory all the more batst. Someone told her that it did and she just ran with it

It would be useless to have jamming it wouldn't be able to get close enough to anything, not exactly inconspicuous a plane is it.

I doubt it's public information, but surely jamming would protect it from radar guided missiles, so would serve a purpose?

[ChocolateFrog]

youngsyr said:

ChocolateFrog said:

youngsyr said:

Does it though - he had to take deliberate actions at the start of the flight (overpower/lock Co pilot out), lower cabin pressure, change course, then just sit there for 6 hours doing absolutely nothing.

Not forgetting killing 238 people along with himself.

Any suicide is difficult to understand, but this must be the most bizarre one ever?

As soon as he'd done what he needed to do he would have just taken off his oxygen mask and fallen unconscious with the rest.

People who do this stuff are cowards so there's no way he stayed awake until the end.

Out of morbid intetest, how long would it take you to die from a depressuriaed cabin at 30,000ft? Is it longer than 6 hours - I suspect it might be?


And do cabin crew have a longer duration air supply than passengers? Again, I think it logical that they would, seeing as they're responsible for the safety of the passengers.

Hours I'd assume at ambient temp.

Well within the bounds of probability that a few people regained consciousness as the plane nose dived into the ocean.

[Teddy Lop]

youngsyr said:

Dylano said:

So assuming the pilot locked the co-pilot out of the cockpit and depressurised the cabin and assuming it takes a reasonable length of time for the lack of oxygen to take effect, how come no one on board used either their mobile phones or the cabin flight phone to call anyone?

30,000 feet is 5.5miles, which I believe is outside of the range of a cell phone even if you're directly above it - I've certainly never seen reception on my phone at that height, so that would rule out mobile phones.

The passengers would have been unconscious within about 15 minutes - well within the time it would have taken the cabin crew to try to work out what was happening assuming radio silence from the cockpit and a locked cockpit door. You could also assume that the Captain broadcast a lie about the drop in cabin pressure and even the locked door to stall the cabin crew and first officer. Either way, we can reasonably rule out any actions from the passengers.

That is why I asked about how long the cabin crew O2 lasts - if longer than 15 minutes, which I suspect it would be as they have to assist passengers in an emergency, then that might be a hole in the murder-suicide theory.

Is it possible to drop the cabin pressure without the masks dropping, thus everyone unaware and just passing out? Pretty sure undetected loss of pressure has happened to commercial airliners

Rig a sensor, pull a fuse?

[Willhire89]

foxbody-87 said:

Then when presented with actual bits of plane he doubles down and says they were planted by a Russian shill. Complete fantasy!

I laughed when he said that flaperon aside all the parts 'found' by the guy who thinks (rightly) he's a loon were of course small and therefore easily smuggled from the real crash site in a suitcase to the beaches he found them on......

[48k]

Teddy Lop said:

youngsyr said:

Dylano said:

So assuming the pilot locked the co-pilot out of the cockpit and depressurised the cabin and assuming it takes a reasonable length of time for the lack of oxygen to take effect, how come no one on board used either their mobile phones or the cabin flight phone to call anyone?

30,000 feet is 5.5miles, which I believe is outside of the range of a cell phone even if you're directly above it - I've certainly never seen reception on my phone at that height, so that would rule out mobile phones.

The passengers would have been unconscious within about 15 minutes - well within the time it would have taken the cabin crew to try to work out what was happening assuming radio silence from the cockpit and a locked cockpit door. You could also assume that the Captain broadcast a lie about the drop in cabin pressure and even the locked door to stall the cabin crew and first officer. Either way, we can reasonably rule out any actions from the passengers.

That is why I asked about how long the cabin crew O2 lasts - if longer than 15 minutes, which I suspect it would be as they have to assist passengers in an emergency, then that might be a hole in the murder-suicide theory.

Is it possible to drop the cabin pressure without the masks dropping, thus everyone unaware and just passing out? Pretty sure undetected loss of pressure has happened to commercial airliners

Rig a sensor, pull a fuse?

A quick Google suggests that some 777s are fitted with a gas-based oxygen system for passengers rather than generators, and with these it is possible to disable the oxygen flow from the fligh deck.

The Internet said:

The PASS OXY switch in a 777 has three positions: NORM (oxygen masks automatically deploy), ON (oxygen masks manually deployed), and RESET. In the RESET position, passenger oxygen is turned off (though the masks are still deployed). This position is only for 777s configured with gaseous passenger oxygen. Chemical oxygen generators cannot be disabled once started.

[Dylano]

ApOrbital said:

The front fell off.

Nah that was flight TWA-800 which spontaneously blew up and definitely wasn't hit by a missile from the the US Navy exercise being carried out below it and the 150+ witnesses who all reported seeing a missile were all wrong.

[youngsyr]

ChocolateFrog said:

youngsyr said:

ChocolateFrog said:

youngsyr said:

Does it though - he had to take deliberate actions at the start of the flight (overpower/lock Co pilot out), lower cabin pressure, change course, then just sit there for 6 hours doing absolutely nothing.

Not forgetting killing 238 people along with himself.

Any suicide is difficult to understand, but this must be the most bizarre one ever?

As soon as he'd done what he needed to do he would have just taken off his oxygen mask and fallen unconscious with the rest.

People who do this stuff are cowards so there's no way he stayed awake until the end.

Out of morbid intetest, how long would it take you to die from a depressuriaed cabin at 30,000ft? Is it longer than 6 hours - I suspect it might be?


And do cabin crew have a longer duration air supply than passengers? Again, I think it logical that they would, seeing as they're responsible for the safety of the passengers.

Hours I'd assume at ambient temp.

Well within the bounds of probability that a few people regained consciousness as the plane nose dived into the ocean.

That's my suspicion too - relatively inexperienced mountain climbers on Everest have survived for hours without oxygen in freezing cold temperatures and howling gales. Granted they will have acclimatised for a few weeks, but the cold, exposure and exhaustion from weeks of climbing must play a big part in their demise. They certainly don't drop dead after a few minutes.

Some more experienced mountaineers can literally spend a day climbing a mountain without supplemental O2 at 27,000 feet.

[48k]

youngsyr said:

ChocolateFrog said:

youngsyr said:

ChocolateFrog said:

youngsyr said:

Does it though - he had to take deliberate actions at the start of the flight (overpower/lock Co pilot out), lower cabin pressure, change course, then just sit there for 6 hours doing absolutely nothing.

Not forgetting killing 238 people along with himself.

Any suicide is difficult to understand, but this must be the most bizarre one ever?

As soon as he'd done what he needed to do he would have just taken off his oxygen mask and fallen unconscious with the rest.

People who do this stuff are cowards so there's no way he stayed awake until the end.

Out of morbid intetest, how long would it take you to die from a depressuriaed cabin at 30,000ft? Is it longer than 6 hours - I suspect it might be?


And do cabin crew have a longer duration air supply than passengers? Again, I think it logical that they would, seeing as they're responsible for the safety of the passengers.

Hours I'd assume at ambient temp.

Well within the bounds of probability that a few people regained consciousness as the plane nose dived into the ocean.

That's my suspicion too - relatively inexperienced mountain climbers on Everest have survived for hours without oxygen in freezing cold temperatures and howling gales. Granted they will have acclimatised for a few weeks, but the cold, exposure and exhaustion from weeks of climbing must play a big part in their demise. They certainly don't drop dead after a few minutes.

Some more experienced mountaineers can literally spend a day climbing a mountain without supplemental O2 at 27,000 feet.

If your suspicion is that the passengers survived for hours, what's your theory as to what happened?

(Apologies if you have already posted it I haven't read the whole thread)

[youngsyr]

48k said:

If your suspicion is that the passengers survived for hours, what's your theory as to what happened?

(Apologies if you have already posted it I haven't read the whole thread)

I honestly don't have one.

It's not that I think the passengers survived for hours, it's that if the and/or the cabin crew didn't pass out never to recover consciousness within the first 15 minutes, it pokes a hole in the murder-suicide theory.

[48k]

youngsyr said:

48k said:

If your suspicion is that the passengers survived for hours, what's your theory as to what happened?

(Apologies if you have already posted it I haven't read the whole thread)

I honestly don't have one.

It's not that I think the passengers survived for hours, it's that if the and/or the cabin crew didn't pass out never to recover consciousness within the first 15 minutes, it pokes a hole in the murder-suicide theory.

Can you explain how it pokes a hole in the murder-suicide theory? The passengers and cabin crew would not be able to access the flight deck.

[Dylano]

48k said:

Can you explain how it pokes a hole in the murder-suicide theory? The passengers and cabin crew would not be able to access the flight deck.

As I've already mentioned, even if there was no mobile signal how come the cabin air phone wasn't used, which I'm guessing are sat phones? Or was this plane not equipped with an air phone?

Also regarding the disabling of the radar/satellite identification info, this apparently has to be done by accessing the electronics suite via a floor hatch in the main cabin and can't be done from the cockpit... so who did that?

[48k]

Dylano said:

48k said:

Can you explain how it pokes a hole in the murder-suicide theory? The passengers and cabin crew would not be able to access the flight deck.

As I've already mentioned, even if there was no mobile signal how come the cabin air phone wasn't used, which I'm guessing are sat phones? Or was this plane not equipped with an air phone?

Also regarding the disabling of the radar/satellite identification info, this apparently has to be done by accessing the electronics suite via a floor hatch in the main cabin and can't be done from the cockpit... so who did that?

"even if there was no mobile signal how come the cabin air phone wasn't used," - personally I believe everyone was unconscious on their way to being dead, if not dead already, so that's not really a relevant question for me.

"Also regarding the disabling of the radar/satellite identification info, this apparently has to be done by accessing the electronics suite via a floor hatch in the main cabin and can't be done from the cockpit... so who did that?" - is it feasible to think that- with an aircraft full of dead or unconscious people - the captain simply left the flight deck and went down the access hatch? He'd have to know what he was doing when down there of course, but is it feasible?

Having read a lot about this incident and watched a couple of documentaries, my gut feel is to follow the principle of Occam's razor in that pilot suicide seems to best fit the available facts but we may never find out what really happened.

[dvs_dave]

48k said:

"even if there was no mobile signal how come the cabin air phone wasn't used," - personally I believe everyone was unconscious on their way to being dead, if not dead already, so that's not really a relevant question for me.

"Also regarding the disabling of the radar/satellite identification info, this apparently has to be done by accessing the electronics suite via a floor hatch in the main cabin and can't be done from the cockpit... so who did that?" - is it feasible to think that- with an aircraft full of dead or unconscious people - the captain simply left the flight deck and went down the access hatch? He'd have to know what he was doing when down there of course, but is it feasible?

Having read a lot about this incident and watched a couple of documentaries, my gut feel is to follow the principle of Occam's razor in that pilot suicide seems to best fit the available facts but we may never find out what really happened.

I’m with you on this theory and the reasoning as to why. Could there be a more outlandish explanation that’s actually the truth? Yes, but from the evidence available, there’s simply nothing to be able to rationally suggest otherwise.

[Dylano]

48k said:

"even if there was no mobile signal how come the cabin air phone wasn't used," - personally I believe everyone was unconscious on their way to being dead, if not dead already, so that's not really a relevant question for me.

"Also regarding the disabling of the radar/satellite identification info, this apparently has to be done by accessing the electronics suite via a floor hatch in the main cabin and can't be done from the cockpit... so who did that?" - is it feasible to think that- with an aircraft full of dead or unconscious people - the captain simply left the flight deck and went down the access hatch? He'd have to know what he was doing when down there of course, but is it feasible?

Having read a lot about this incident and watched a couple of documentaries, my gut feel is to follow the principle of Occam's razor in that pilot suicide seems to best fit the available facts but we may never find out what really happened.

I agree pilot suicide is the most likely explanation but neither of your answers really make sense, unless everyone in the cabin, including the cabin crew and the locked out co-piolt, were all rendered unconscious/dead due to oxygen starvation in a very short time period and too quickly for them to even realise there was any issue at all?

[RobGT81]

Dylano said:

I agree pilot suicide is the most likely explanation but neither of your answers really make sense, unless everyone in the cabin, including the cabin crew and the locked out co-piolt, were all rendered unconscious/dead due to oxygen starvation in a very short time period and too quickly for them to even realise there was any issue at all?

Isn't that more or less what happened with the Helios flight? I think a couple of people made it to the cockpit with portable oxygen but no radio messages were sent out. They only know people made it to the cockpit because the F16s spotted them visually before it ran out of fuel.

[5 In a Row]

Surely it doesn't matter how long it takes someone to die from lack of oxygen at 30,000 feet.
The important question is how long doe sit take for them to be incapacitated?

That appears to be a few minutes.
They could be unconscious for hours thereafter but that wouldn't help them trying to break into the cockpit because they'd be unconscious.

[youngsyr]

5 In a Row said:

Surely it doesn't matter how long it takes someone to die from lack of oxygen at 30,000 feet.
The important question is how long doe sit take for them to be incapacitated?

That appears to be a few minutes.
They could be unconscious for hours thereafter but that wouldn't help them trying to break into the cockpit because they'd be unconscious.

The plane didn't remain at 30,000 feet though, did it?