Discussion
Dylano said:
youngsyr said:
The plane didn't remain at 30,000 feet though, did it?
Yes that's a point, when it did the uturn at the way point didn't it immediately then also drop down to very low level presumably to evade radar?MarkwG said:
As far as I'm aware, there are no confirmed reports of it descending prior to last known position, although self evidently, it must have descended when it ran out of fuel.
Not prior to its last known position, but surely the very fact that to this day there's no certainty about just which route it took from its last known position at the way point means it must have descended low enough to evade radar immediately after its last known position?Dylano said:
MarkwG said:
As far as I'm aware, there are no confirmed reports of it descending prior to last known position, although self evidently, it must have descended when it ran out of fuel.
Not prior to its last known position, but surely the very fact that to this day there's no certainty about just which route it took from its last known position at the way point means it must have descended low enough to evade radar immediately after its last known position?MarkwG said:
No, not necessarily, it's more complex than that. There's little coverage in that area anyway, so the only way to assess the flight trajectory is by combining different returns, of different types, from different radar systems. It wouldn't need to descend to evade detection; switching the transponder off, or a disruption to its operation, would render it invisible to anything but primary radar, which wouldn't be able to assess whether it was level, climbing or descending.
But regardless of how limited the info is from primary radar it's still capable of detecting and tracking an aircraft even if it can't identify it through a transponder return or establish its altitude?So surely the fact that there was no primary radar trace of it immediately after the way point still suggests it descended low enough to evade radar?
youngsyr said:
5 In a Row said:
Surely it doesn't matter how long it takes someone to die from lack of oxygen at 30,000 feet.
The important question is how long doe sit take for them to be incapacitated?
That appears to be a few minutes.
They could be unconscious for hours thereafter but that wouldn't help them trying to break into the cockpit because they'd be unconscious.
The plane didn't remain at 30,000 feet though, did it?The important question is how long doe sit take for them to be incapacitated?
That appears to be a few minutes.
They could be unconscious for hours thereafter but that wouldn't help them trying to break into the cockpit because they'd be unconscious.
I haven't watched the documentary (and from reading this thread I won't be bothering to in the future).
CoolHands said:
In short no one knows jack s
t
A friend is a pilot with BA and when we discussed it he said that there's no doubt the US now exactly where it went (and possibly other countries) but cannot reveal how they know. t You might think they would drop a few hints given the millions spent on searching
Willhire89 said:
A friend is a pilot with BA and when we discussed it he said that there's no doubt the US now exactly where it went (and possibly other countries) but cannot reveal how they know.
You might think they would drop a few hints given the millions spent on searching
Why would a pilot with BA know?You might think they would drop a few hints given the millions spent on searching
CoolHands said:
In short no one knows jack st
Depends really. Maybe someone knows but suited them that it disappeared. The Malaysian government seem very controlling, maybe it was a protest.?t In regards to the disappearance, it is very surprising USA never picked it up etc considering how much they are all over the world.
Dylano said:
MarkwG said:
No, not necessarily, it's more complex than that. There's little coverage in that area anyway, so the only way to assess the flight trajectory is by combining different returns, of different types, from different radar systems. It wouldn't need to descend to evade detection; switching the transponder off, or a disruption to its operation, would render it invisible to anything but primary radar, which wouldn't be able to assess whether it was level, climbing or descending.
But regardless of how limited the info is from primary radar it's still capable of detecting and tracking an aircraft even if it can't identify it through a transponder return or establish its altitude?So surely the fact that there was no primary radar trace of it immediately after the way point still suggests it descended low enough to evade radar?
Having just binged watched the documentary, the only credible theory for the aircraft going missing is one of the aircrew who had knowledge of flying and systems within the aircraft, disabled communications flew the aircraft and crashed it in the middle of or of the deepest oceans in the world where chances of finding the bulk of the sunken debris would be almost impossible given the topography of the ocean floor. I think the one of the Australian mil investigators summed it up when he said something along the lines, It’s like looking for a needle in a haystack, but we need to find the haystack first.
The supposed other two options for the disappearance are complete works of fiction in my opinion, but as another investigator said, Opinions are like aholes everyone has one.
The supposed other two options for the disappearance are complete works of fiction in my opinion, but as another investigator said, Opinions are like a
holes everyone has one.Watched the whole series, certainly a lot of nut job theories out there!!!
Hopefully one day the main wreckage will be found to help determine and learn from whatever happened. Without that everything is just a theory.
From everything I know about it, I definitely lean towards foul play being the cause, the biggest clue is the initial turn off course after last radio contact, even if the entire instrument and radio equipment failed(which is insanely unlikely and nigh on impossible when we know that the flight controls were working), they would remain on their current heading whilst trying to regain function. To abandon a flight path with no radio contact is incredibly reckless.
As much as I hate the thought of it, the suicide theory makes the most sense, although this theory does have inconsistencies as well.
The only other theories that could even remotely make sense to me is an attempted hijack gone wrong or an unnoticed cabin pressure drop causing hypoxia and delusion before passing out.
Hopefully one day the main wreckage will be found to help determine and learn from whatever happened. Without that everything is just a theory.
From everything I know about it, I definitely lean towards foul play being the cause, the biggest clue is the initial turn off course after last radio contact, even if the entire instrument and radio equipment failed(which is insanely unlikely and nigh on impossible when we know that the flight controls were working), they would remain on their current heading whilst trying to regain function. To abandon a flight path with no radio contact is incredibly reckless.
As much as I hate the thought of it, the suicide theory makes the most sense, although this theory does have inconsistencies as well.
The only other theories that could even remotely make sense to me is an attempted hijack gone wrong or an unnoticed cabin pressure drop causing hypoxia and delusion before passing out.
For me it was a suicide act. One designed to be as cruel as possible to avoid the blackbox ever being found (or planned as much so as possible) to cause maximum anguish to others.
Suicide can be a selfish act, take everyone with that act like the German Wings flight, jump from a building not caring who or what you land on etc.
Suicide can be a selfish act, take everyone with that act like the German Wings flight, jump from a building not caring who or what you land on etc.
Raccaccoonie said:
CoolHands said:
In short no one knows jack st
Depends really. Maybe someone knows but suited them that it disappeared. The Malaysian government seem very controlling, maybe it was a protest.?t In regards to the disappearance, it is very surprising USA never picked it up etc considering how much they are all over the world.
Or, elements within intel know exactly where it is but don't want to divulge mil capability over a trifling foreigner civvie concern.
The storyline may have more than one element thrawting those speculating an agenda that fits the known facts.
48k said:
For me the biggest clue that this was a deliberate action was the fact that the police recovered Microsoft Flight Simulator routes from the pilot's home simulator, showing he was effectively doing "practice runs" about a month beforehand.
Maybe that was planted by the Russian security services 
48k said:
For me the biggest clue that this was a deliberate action was the fact that the police recovered Microsoft Flight Simulator routes from the pilot's home simulator, showing he was effectively doing "practice runs" about a month beforehand.
It showed nothing of the sort. Loads of pilots have flight simulator games. Flight sims are very popular. Loads of pilots have models of planes too. It turns out, loads of pilots just love planes. It's just the ultra-thick soul-destroyingly boring types who take up journalism who think it's unusual.Let's cut to the chase - a professional pilot doesn't need to "practise" flying in a straight line. They'll have thousands of hours "practise" flying a heading.
If this evidence wasn't thin enough, MS Flightsim has an enormously used feature which all who've ever owned it will know wherein you press a key on the keyboard and use a mouse or joystick to "slew" the plane rapidly through different heights or across the globe. You don't need to sit at your computer for 6 hours "flying" somewhere, you can just shoot over to somewhere else and fly there instead. They even say in the Netfux programme that upon rechecking his Flightsim data that's exactly what he did - he was flying around local to where he lived and went to fly around the south Indian Ocean instead.
Pretty much everyone who plays with Flightsims does this, and it only looks suspicious to someone who doesn't know this.
jamieduff1981 said:
48k said:
For me the biggest clue that this was a deliberate action was the fact that the police recovered Microsoft Flight Simulator routes from the pilot's home simulator, showing he was effectively doing "practice runs" about a month beforehand.
It showed nothing of the sort. Loads of pilots have flight simulator games. Flight sims are very popular. Loads of pilots have models of planes too. It turns out, loads of pilots just love planes. It's just the ultra-thick soul-destroyingly boring types who take up journalism who think it's unusual.Let's cut to the chase - a professional pilot doesn't need to "practise" flying in a straight line. They'll have thousands of hours "practise" flying a heading.
If this evidence wasn't thin enough, MS Flightsim has an enormously used feature which all who've ever owned it will know wherein you press a key on the keyboard and use a mouse or joystick to "slew" the plane rapidly through different heights or across the globe. You don't need to sit at your computer for 6 hours "flying" somewhere, you can just shoot over to somewhere else and fly there instead. They even say in the Netfux programme that upon rechecking his Flightsim data that's exactly what he did - he was flying around local to where he lived and went to fly around the south Indian Ocean instead.
Pretty much everyone who plays with Flightsims does this, and it only looks suspicious to someone who doesn't know this.
It never fails to amaze me that people will immediately question the integrity of Immersat without any evidence of wrongdoing, but will believe without question an unknown "journalist", who has a massive vested interest in saying something interesting/contraversial regardless of its veracity.
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