BA 787 Nosegear Collapse at Heathrow.

[aeropilot]

MB140 said:

aeropilot said:

I don't know of any designer that chases the bottom line......initially.

What usually happens is a project manager type along with the bean counters, review the design and then instruct the designers to find ways of saving a few pence.........(which usually costs more in design time, than the saving is, but the bean counters justify their salary but declaring a saving )

Apologies aeropilot. You’re 100% correct. The designer designs the optimal solution and is then told by an account. Brilliant make it cheaper.

Fools like me then blame the designer not considering the constraints on the designer.


We’re just the muppets who are out on the line trying to wire lock a load of bolts in the blind one handed in a torture position when a simple access panel means a job that should take 30 mins ends up taking a day.

(Tornado GR4 laser ranger? springs to mind not that I still have nightmares from 1997/8 Pre haddan-cave and the MAA it was amazing the number that weren’t actually wire locked. ) Once one came of in flight in goose it resulted in fleet checks. Not that I had about a dozen aircraft to do as part of a UTI.

The other problem today is disconnected design teams where what was done in one office 50+ years ago, is now split across who knows how many different 'teams' spread around the world let alone within on building or office.
Technology and modelling are supposed to make it easier, but it doesn't. All it does is mean the bean counters say the design team needs fewer people to do the job and in less time, while the management teams of non-designers and spreadsheet pushers just seem to get ever bigger

[Eric Mc]

MB140 said:

Apologies aeropilot. You’re 100% correct. The designer designs the optimal solution and is then told by an account. Brilliant make it cheaper.

Fools like me then blame the designer not considering the constraints on the designer.


We’re just the muppets who are out on the line trying to wire lock a load of bolts in the blind one handed in a torture position when a simple access panel means a job that should take 30 mins ends up taking a day.

(Tornado GR4 laser ranger? springs to mind not that I still have nightmares from 1997/8 Pre haddan-cave and the MAA it was amazing the number that weren’t actually wire locked. ) Once one came of in flight in goose it resulted in fleet checks. Not that I had about a dozen aircraft to do as part of a UTI.

What does any of that last paragraph mean?

Poor communications and poor work practices also play their part.

[MB140]

Eric Mc said:

MB140 said:

Apologies aeropilot. You’re 100% correct. The designer designs the optimal solution and is then told by an account. Brilliant make it cheaper.

Fools like me then blame the designer not considering the constraints on the designer.


We’re just the muppets who are out on the line trying to wire lock a load of bolts in the blind one handed in a torture position when a simple access panel means a job that should take 30 mins ends up taking a day.

(Tornado GR4 laser ranger? springs to mind not that I still have nightmares from 1997/8 Pre haddan-cave and the MAA it was amazing the number that weren’t actually wire locked. ) Once one came of in flight in goose it resulted in fleet checks. Not that I had about a dozen aircraft to do as part of a UTI.

What does any of that last paragraph mean?

Poor communications and poor work practices also play their part.

Sorry Eric,

Around 1997/8 I used to work on Tornado GR1 and GR4. On the GR4 there was an additional laser ranger and fairing added to the starboard lower nose section. This whole pod was bolted on by 4(? It’s 20 plus years it might be more or less nuts and that should be wire locked together for security).

Whilst out in goose bay (low level flight training area in north east Canada) one of the GR4 came back minus its laser ranging pod. A quick inspection showed the nuts had come off in flight and the pod fell off (not metal fatigue or anything else.

This resulted in a UTI (urgent technical instruction, basically stipulated no GR4 could fly before an inspection and any rectification was carried out.)

This resulted in me having to first off gain access via a tiny panel 2”x4” about 2ft behind the bolts stuck up in the nose undercarriage bay.

To inspect the bolts required the use of a touch and mirrors. It was subsequently found quite few of the fleet had no wire locking in place.

Due to very poor design it meant about 4 hours (and sometimes more if the wire locking holes weren’t favourable and lots of blood and sweating to wire lock all the bolts together, using 1 hand totally by feel.

Now if someone from the design team had thought about it they would have made an access panel inside the nose gear panel to allow decent access or at least the ability to see what your doing.

I believe there is an Air Accident Investigation episode where an aircraft was destroyed and people hurt when a modification was required to a slat track. This meant assembling the bolt totally blind. The tech got it wrong (remember working by feel) and the bolt came loose. When the pilot retracted the slats on landing it punctured the fuel tank which resulted in fuel leaking out over the hot engine. The whole plane was destroyed in about 2 mins.

Again if someone designing the mod had actually been out and attempted it they would have seen it was an accident waiting to happen.

Reference comms and work practices I agree.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/videos/category/his...

[dvs_dave]

Ah yes, the “ol’ boys” moaning about how things were better back in the good old days, just like everyone before them.

Imagine how much better things must have been before them, compared to now!