Any 'shoestring' sailors?
Discussion
Audis5b9 said:
Have you got a plan for the osmosis once you come out after this season?
Just now my plan is very outline; grind back, dry out and fill. I'll do plenty of research and decide upon a detailed method and products nearer the time.One benefit of the club I've joined is that there is a crane (for boats up to 2 tonnes) which is available at any time, so it might be beneficial actually to sacrifice some of the sailing season (but not this one!) and do the job during the warmer months mid summer.
Arnold Cunningham said:
D1bram said:
Just now my plan is very outline; grind back, dry out and fill. I'll do plenty of research and decide upon a detailed method and products nearer the time.
One benefit of the club I've joined is that there is a crane (for boats up to 2 tonnes) which is available at any time, so it might be beneficial actually to sacrifice some of the sailing season (but not this one!) and do the job during the warmer months mid summer.
On the shoestring principle, I'd say monitor, spot repair if there are any particular bad spots, but generally don't worry about it too much.One benefit of the club I've joined is that there is a crane (for boats up to 2 tonnes) which is available at any time, so it might be beneficial actually to sacrifice some of the sailing season (but not this one!) and do the job during the warmer months mid summer.
If you find any particularly bad bits, grind and repair. But the removal of the whole gelcoat and redoing it - what a job!!!! And certainly not justified here.
There's usually 2 schools of thought:
1. Osmosis bad, the boat'll sink and we're all going to die
2. Ignore it completely
Somewhere in the middle is about right - keep an eye on it, don't let any bad patches escalate, more so if the osmosis is in any structural areas, but generally, just crack on and enjoy the boat.
When I used to read ALL the magazines like it was religion in the late 80's/ early 90's osmosis was a word which nobody even dared speak out load in a boatyard. It seems the past 30 years of experience has given most the confidence to realise that while it's undesirable it is not the end for your pride and joy.
Out of interest, what would you consider size wise to be a bad patch?
Jaguar steve said:
D1bram said:
to be completely honest, if she looks good from the harbourside when on the mooring then I will be happy!
That's the standard of cosmetic finish I'm happy with too, and that's probably why my boat is back in the water and I could go for a sail yesterday whilst most people are still in the yard and a long way off a launch date 
I popped down the yacht club for a pint last night and was chatting to a guy who had that day got his Coribee AND his Hurley 20 in the water; envious!
On another note, having just said no more spend on the boat I've just messaged a guy about a tohatsu 9.8 for sale locally...
bordseye said:
Being technically minded and as a verean of two osmosis treatments ( one failed) I acquired some knowledge of the dreaded pox.
They say that boats do not sink because of osmosis but I am sure that on rare occasions they do. Digging out the pox on a Sadler, I was 8mm deep in one spot so its easy to see how on a particularly badle laid up hull that the pox could weaken the structure. But it clearly isnt common not least because the worst affected older boats also tended to be the heaviest .
People talk of treating just the blisters which is a bit like treating measles by putting a plaster ofn each spot. In reality the layup is wet with a concentrated solution of styrene etc and the laws of thermodynamics mean that the strenght of the solutions on either side of the gelcoat try to equalise. Hence blisters as osmosis occurs. So the best way by far of treating is to remove the gelcoat and wash the bare laminate with warm fresh water to allow this equalising process to clean out the nasties in the laminate. Then re coat with some sort of gel. So strip the gelcoat in autumn and leave the hull bare to dry out through the winter. The more it gets rained on, the better.
But is this worth it on an old boat? Very doubtful so maybe it is better just to patch and live with it. Just dont think that cures the pox.
The OPs project is great and he will have far more fun pottering with a smaller older boat than he would if he won the lottery and bought a Swan. Bigger is not better in boating. And something to tinker with is more fun than brand new.
Interesting post thanks! I think with my old boat then a patch and live with it route will be the way - though I will do the best job I can.They say that boats do not sink because of osmosis but I am sure that on rare occasions they do. Digging out the pox on a Sadler, I was 8mm deep in one spot so its easy to see how on a particularly badle laid up hull that the pox could weaken the structure. But it clearly isnt common not least because the worst affected older boats also tended to be the heaviest .
People talk of treating just the blisters which is a bit like treating measles by putting a plaster ofn each spot. In reality the layup is wet with a concentrated solution of styrene etc and the laws of thermodynamics mean that the strenght of the solutions on either side of the gelcoat try to equalise. Hence blisters as osmosis occurs. So the best way by far of treating is to remove the gelcoat and wash the bare laminate with warm fresh water to allow this equalising process to clean out the nasties in the laminate. Then re coat with some sort of gel. So strip the gelcoat in autumn and leave the hull bare to dry out through the winter. The more it gets rained on, the better.
But is this worth it on an old boat? Very doubtful so maybe it is better just to patch and live with it. Just dont think that cures the pox.
The OPs project is great and he will have far more fun pottering with a smaller older boat than he would if he won the lottery and bought a Swan. Bigger is not better in boating. And something to tinker with is more fun than brand new.
If you could arrange the lotto win I would be very happy to do the new Swan thing next, contrast, compare and report back
Jaguar steve said:
D1bram said:
Yes as much as I am enjoying the process I am really keen to actually get sailing asap. Did you say you're in a Leisure 20 Steve or is that a previous boat?
That's what they're for. 
L20 was my previous boat, I sold that a while back, chartered abroad for a few seasons then bought a Hunter Ranger 245 which is a keeper.
Probably.
Very brief update...
Spent the weekend working on the boat again, mainly solo due to childcare, and made some good progress.
Second layer of glass where the rudder tube is going and I also soaked the wooden seacock backer in resin and got that positioned on a bed of thickened resin.
Big news is though I managed to finish sanding the hull and sikaflexing under the rubbing strake so now have her in primer....
It was a challenge with changeable weather and a neighbour who was sanding... but there it is. Unfortunately I started with the second coat and it started to rain, hopefully heading up tonight weather dependant to get that on.
I quite like the white, but she is going back to red.
Also got quite a bit of the deck sanded
Spent the weekend working on the boat again, mainly solo due to childcare, and made some good progress.
Second layer of glass where the rudder tube is going and I also soaked the wooden seacock backer in resin and got that positioned on a bed of thickened resin.
Big news is though I managed to finish sanding the hull and sikaflexing under the rubbing strake so now have her in primer....
It was a challenge with changeable weather and a neighbour who was sanding... but there it is. Unfortunately I started with the second coat and it started to rain, hopefully heading up tonight weather dependant to get that on.
I quite like the white, but she is going back to red.
Also got quite a bit of the deck sanded
This weeks boat plans were somewhat scuppered (ahaha) by friends visiting - which was great but obviously impacted my programme...
So I booked Thursday and Friday off work (should really tally up holiday used as well as costs incurred!) and get on then. Thursday was looking so-so weather wise but all good for Friday.
Thursday arrives, looking a bit dull here, so off we set. Arrived at the boat to find the wind blowing hard right into the cockpit and within 5 minutes the heavens opened and it was clear that beyond a bit of interior paint (which the other half was cracking on with) nothing would get done... too cold. too wet and too windy. I was grumpy. We headed home and with a beer in hand I started instead crafting a base plate for my short term mast support.
I think I mentioned early on that the boat is suffering (as most H22's do) from mast compression - where the coachroof or cabin top sags under the weight of the mast and tension in the rig is lost. Originally I planned to ignore this altogether this season and sort next winter, but it's been niggling at me how the sailing performance is likely to be affected so I started looking at an easy to implement solution.
A kingpost (ie a post from below the mast down to the top of the keel) is the simplest method and indeed most larger boats rely on this method, but in the H22 it would make the already small forecabin very cramped indeed. There are some great example of laminated beams being added to the cabin roof, and while this is a far more elegant solution I haven't the time or inclination just now.
I have therefore decided on a demountable king post - which will be most of the time but can be removed for sleeping. I bought a small acrow support which I will simple wind up to a pre-marked height each time I refit it. So on Thursday the one useful thing I did was mark the roof and keel top profiles.
This is the bottom plate - I made a box of plywood and have filled it with fibre glass, then added some more ply to build it up. I will infill with thickened resin then put another sheet of fibreglass underneath before sanding and coating it all in resin. There's a million ways I could have done this, many probably more efficient but just now I'm enjoying messing with fibreglass
My partner also busied herself with making liners for the forecabin hull walls, she has ordered new 4" cushions for the forecabin, sewn new curtains and painted much of the cabin. I'll get some photographs soon.
Friday, luckily was a better day weather wise, so with a cut of off 2pm (back for a much needed haircut before friends arrived!) I raced up to the boat and managed to;
- Finish the second coat of primer
- Fit the rudder tube, with a small bit of sanding here and there it is now a perfect fit
- Fit the new skin fitting under the sink
Sunday, our friends went home and so I thought I'd get up there for the afternoon. But aside from a bit of sanding to the primer I decided to sack work off in favour of getting the tender and outboard on the river with my Stepson. Totally worth it, he loved it!
Launch day is fast approaching (22/04) and with family visiting this weekend we're now up against it! I'm heading up tonight to finish sanding back the primer and possibly get a first top coat on, Wednesday evening for the second coat and then I have been excused family activities to spend the day there Friday leaving Monday when we both can get up.
I have accepted the deck isn't getting painted before launch, so now my to do jobs before the 22nd are
- rudder back in
- top coats on topsides x2
- replace halyards
- refit sails
- good tidy and make sure all safety kit is in its place
So I booked Thursday and Friday off work (should really tally up holiday used as well as costs incurred!) and get on then. Thursday was looking so-so weather wise but all good for Friday.
Thursday arrives, looking a bit dull here, so off we set. Arrived at the boat to find the wind blowing hard right into the cockpit and within 5 minutes the heavens opened and it was clear that beyond a bit of interior paint (which the other half was cracking on with) nothing would get done... too cold. too wet and too windy. I was grumpy. We headed home and with a beer in hand I started instead crafting a base plate for my short term mast support.
I think I mentioned early on that the boat is suffering (as most H22's do) from mast compression - where the coachroof or cabin top sags under the weight of the mast and tension in the rig is lost. Originally I planned to ignore this altogether this season and sort next winter, but it's been niggling at me how the sailing performance is likely to be affected so I started looking at an easy to implement solution.
A kingpost (ie a post from below the mast down to the top of the keel) is the simplest method and indeed most larger boats rely on this method, but in the H22 it would make the already small forecabin very cramped indeed. There are some great example of laminated beams being added to the cabin roof, and while this is a far more elegant solution I haven't the time or inclination just now.
I have therefore decided on a demountable king post - which will be most of the time but can be removed for sleeping. I bought a small acrow support which I will simple wind up to a pre-marked height each time I refit it. So on Thursday the one useful thing I did was mark the roof and keel top profiles.
This is the bottom plate - I made a box of plywood and have filled it with fibre glass, then added some more ply to build it up. I will infill with thickened resin then put another sheet of fibreglass underneath before sanding and coating it all in resin. There's a million ways I could have done this, many probably more efficient but just now I'm enjoying messing with fibreglass
My partner also busied herself with making liners for the forecabin hull walls, she has ordered new 4" cushions for the forecabin, sewn new curtains and painted much of the cabin. I'll get some photographs soon.
Friday, luckily was a better day weather wise, so with a cut of off 2pm (back for a much needed haircut before friends arrived!) I raced up to the boat and managed to;
- Finish the second coat of primer
- Fit the rudder tube, with a small bit of sanding here and there it is now a perfect fit
- Fit the new skin fitting under the sink
Sunday, our friends went home and so I thought I'd get up there for the afternoon. But aside from a bit of sanding to the primer I decided to sack work off in favour of getting the tender and outboard on the river with my Stepson. Totally worth it, he loved it!
Launch day is fast approaching (22/04) and with family visiting this weekend we're now up against it! I'm heading up tonight to finish sanding back the primer and possibly get a first top coat on, Wednesday evening for the second coat and then I have been excused family activities to spend the day there Friday leaving Monday when we both can get up.
I have accepted the deck isn't getting painted before launch, so now my to do jobs before the 22nd are
- rudder back in
- top coats on topsides x2
- replace halyards
- refit sails
- good tidy and make sure all safety kit is in its place
sanguinary said:
Great thread, thanks for keeping it up to date.... it almost makes me want to get into cheap sailing. (I know I can't commit the time you are, so I'd simply not see the water!)
Having said that, I'm going to be rather envious when you post your first pictures under sail...
I genuinely can't believe how much time I have managed to put into it... not without sacrifice elsewhere I hasten to add! But I think once I had committed it was a great motivator.Having said that, I'm going to be rather envious when you post your first pictures under sail...
Will be honest and admit that it has taken a lot more than I originally though and I'm quite glad I didn't go for a much bigger boat (it seems that bigger boats are more often available for next to nothing; I can see why!).
I would say to anyone; go for it.
One lesson I have learnt though... If I were to start again tomorrow I'd make some basic safety checks/repairs then dropped her in the water and motor down the coast to Sunderland and lift out at this end. She would have made it no problem at all and having her closer to home would have been a huge bonus.
sanguinary said:
D1bram said:
One lesson I have learnt though... If I were to start again tomorrow I'd make some basic safety checks/repairs then dropped her in the water and motor down the coast to Sunderland and lift out at this end. She would have made it no problem at all and having her closer to home would have been a huge bonus.
If she's nearer to home though, you may have taken your foot off the gas a little and not made the progress you have.Anyway, I managed to get up tonight and sanded flat the primer…
Feels a bit disheartening in a way as she looks patchy again now, but she’s smooth as the babies proverbial… and I’ll hopefully get the first coat of red on Wednesday night
tr7v8 said:
Looking good, but am I allowed to say I preferred the white?
Fair comment! I almost felt the same but having already (over) bought the red I cracked on.I love it to be fair, it’s gone one really well. I thinned it 10% with thinners 100 and used a flocked roller and I also tipped it despite that apparently not being needed with toplac plus.
I’m very pleased so far
Plymo said:
I've just found this thread - what a lovely job you've done on your boat! I looked at H22s (I'm a sucker for long keel traditional stuff) and ended up buying a 24/70 - it's also a great design though mine was a bit of a lemon in the sails and engine department. I sold it, which has to be one of the worst boat related decisions I've made so far, I still miss my "little big boat"!
It's definitely possible to sail on a budget, as I've done to a greater or lesser degree since I was a teenager.
Current boat is an Itchen Ferry - it's a strange 70s combination of a hull modelled on an old sailing fishing boat, with a modern cabin top that gives it impressive accommodation with the drawbacks you can expect from that...
Weighs 3 tons and has a keel running from stem to stern and a rudder like a barn door, it sails like it's on rails but causes chaos in marinas!
When conditions are even slightly ropey she won't really make any progress to windward - leaving salcombe I could see the same spot even after 4 hours of beating into a f4-5
Still, you can have fun in any boat, and I recently sailed it from Poole to Swansea singlehanded in 8 days (plus 4 waiting for weather windows) to hopefully get more sailing in now it's only half an hour away
For a small (and don't tell her - very tubby) boat it's been about a lot. It's definitely still possible to have fun on a small boat on a modest budget
Maybe one day I'll move up the ladder and get a centaur, or something folkboat-ish like a Contessa 26, Invicta, Cutlass or similar for a bit better sailing performance. For an ex dinghy racer the rig of an itchen ferry is disappointing to say the least
Interesting boat the Itchen Ferry, as you say, a bit tubby perhaps but nonetheless charming! Didn't they do them in various sizes (stretching the original hull)?It's definitely possible to sail on a budget, as I've done to a greater or lesser degree since I was a teenager.
Current boat is an Itchen Ferry - it's a strange 70s combination of a hull modelled on an old sailing fishing boat, with a modern cabin top that gives it impressive accommodation with the drawbacks you can expect from that...
Weighs 3 tons and has a keel running from stem to stern and a rudder like a barn door, it sails like it's on rails but causes chaos in marinas!
When conditions are even slightly ropey she won't really make any progress to windward - leaving salcombe I could see the same spot even after 4 hours of beating into a f4-5
Still, you can have fun in any boat, and I recently sailed it from Poole to Swansea singlehanded in 8 days (plus 4 waiting for weather windows) to hopefully get more sailing in now it's only half an hour away
For a small (and don't tell her - very tubby) boat it's been about a lot. It's definitely still possible to have fun on a small boat on a modest budget
Maybe one day I'll move up the ladder and get a centaur, or something folkboat-ish like a Contessa 26, Invicta, Cutlass or similar for a bit better sailing performance. For an ex dinghy racer the rig of an itchen ferry is disappointing to say the least
Quick update;
Sunday, we did a big family lunch then my partner and I got up to the boat, was a nice afternoon and big spring tide so decided we'd get the dinghy out again.
Had a gentle motor up to Warkworth and the back down to the harbour, spotted a convenient space between two trawlers right in front of the Fish Shack so we tied up and went ashore and had a quick drink. Food looked amazing and we've booked in next Saturday night to eat.
Regarding a kill switch on the dinghy, yes, probably a good idea (though I would also add I won't be letting my stepson out alone in it for some time).
Sunday morning I started attacking the deck with the sander - a lot of work to do here but you can see the difference between Port and Starboard.
You might be able to see but she has texture printed into the gelcoat to give areas with improved grip; it's in poor shape though so I think I'm going to sand it flat and just build up a decent layer of interdeck in those areas. I've a plan for a colour scheme which inverts the norm. The original topsides were grey on this boat, so any of the 'shiny' bits I am going to paint in toplac atlantic grey, with what were the original textured areas in white interdeck.
I did also get the second coat of red on, glassed up the bottom of the skeg and finished the sink drain seacock. Bec continued painting and upholstering inside, though I've not photographed any of that yet
Sunday, we did a big family lunch then my partner and I got up to the boat, was a nice afternoon and big spring tide so decided we'd get the dinghy out again.
Had a gentle motor up to Warkworth and the back down to the harbour, spotted a convenient space between two trawlers right in front of the Fish Shack so we tied up and went ashore and had a quick drink. Food looked amazing and we've booked in next Saturday night to eat.
Regarding a kill switch on the dinghy, yes, probably a good idea (though I would also add I won't be letting my stepson out alone in it for some time).
Sunday morning I started attacking the deck with the sander - a lot of work to do here but you can see the difference between Port and Starboard.
You might be able to see but she has texture printed into the gelcoat to give areas with improved grip; it's in poor shape though so I think I'm going to sand it flat and just build up a decent layer of interdeck in those areas. I've a plan for a colour scheme which inverts the norm. The original topsides were grey on this boat, so any of the 'shiny' bits I am going to paint in toplac atlantic grey, with what were the original textured areas in white interdeck.
I did also get the second coat of red on, glassed up the bottom of the skeg and finished the sink drain seacock. Bec continued painting and upholstering inside, though I've not photographed any of that yet
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