Any 'shoestring' sailors?
Discussion
Arnold Cunningham said:
Totally. Fortunately, I promise I am not that guy. I could post some pics of the last boat build, but let’s not let derail this nice Hurley thread.
Definitely wasn’t referencing your good self! And yes - really is a pretty boat, hadn’t come across them before so watching with interest. D1bram - what's your plan for the topsides (which to the uninitiated is not the top, it's the sides, the red bit)?
If you can be bothered with all the effort - International Perfection is excellent. Very hard wearing and will last a long time. But a bit more effort to get a perfect mirror finish at the beginning because the paint is so damn hard.
If you can be bothered with all the effort - International Perfection is excellent. Very hard wearing and will last a long time. But a bit more effort to get a perfect mirror finish at the beginning because the paint is so damn hard.
Arnold Cunningham said:
D1bram - what's your plan for the topsides (which to the uninitiated is not the top, it's the sides, the red bit)?
If you can be bothered with all the effort - International Perfection is excellent. Very hard wearing and will last a long time. But a bit more effort to get a perfect mirror finish at the beginning because the paint is so damn hard.
I'm going with a couple of coats of International One Up, followed by International Toplac Plus. I did originally intend to use Toplac, but it seems to be difficult to get a hold of now... the main advantage of the 'plus' seems to be no requirement for tipping (following a roller application with a second roller to smooth it out for those who might not know).If you can be bothered with all the effort - International Perfection is excellent. Very hard wearing and will last a long time. But a bit more effort to get a perfect mirror finish at the beginning because the paint is so damn hard.
As a system it seems about the right compromise of cost/difficulty/finish for me. I did consider the perfection briefly though.
Decks will be a coat of One Up follow by Interdeck.
To a greater or lesser degree, I've tried both.
In perfection, I turned the transom from this:
into this:
To get it perfect, I wetsanded with 3M 1K or 2K paper (must be 3M, no other brands!) and then got the polisher on it.
A lot of effort, but it came out perfect. Perfection is a lot harder than gelcoat. But rewarding with the final finish.
My parent repainted the topsides on their boat in perfection maybe 30!! years ago. When the boat was sold in 2018, it still looked good. Obviously some chips etc by now, but a quick polish in the spring and it still looked good.
I then did this in red toplac:
My first attempt was at spraying it. The actual spray job came out really really well - I found the toplac flowed out lovely and gave a really good finish. However, I was doing it outdoors and ended up with a lot of flies in it - so sanded it down and redid it by hand.
I did not top it off - I just rollered it. This was a mistake!
It went on OK, colour and coverage were fine, but it didn't flatten out properly. I had intended to wetsand and polish it, but never got round to it. It looked good from 10' or so away, but up close you could see the brush marks.
So if you can be persuaded, the effort of perfection is a lot higher, but the result will really last. But Toplac in red - it really "popped" as you can see.
In perfection, I turned the transom from this:
into this:
To get it perfect, I wetsanded with 3M 1K or 2K paper (must be 3M, no other brands!) and then got the polisher on it.
A lot of effort, but it came out perfect. Perfection is a lot harder than gelcoat. But rewarding with the final finish.
My parent repainted the topsides on their boat in perfection maybe 30!! years ago. When the boat was sold in 2018, it still looked good. Obviously some chips etc by now, but a quick polish in the spring and it still looked good.
I then did this in red toplac:
My first attempt was at spraying it. The actual spray job came out really really well - I found the toplac flowed out lovely and gave a really good finish. However, I was doing it outdoors and ended up with a lot of flies in it - so sanded it down and redid it by hand.
I did not top it off - I just rollered it. This was a mistake!
It went on OK, colour and coverage were fine, but it didn't flatten out properly. I had intended to wetsand and polish it, but never got round to it. It looked good from 10' or so away, but up close you could see the brush marks.
So if you can be persuaded, the effort of perfection is a lot higher, but the result will really last. But Toplac in red - it really "popped" as you can see.
Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Thursday 31st March 10:17
For doing anything in the bilges - Danboline is OK, but for a really nice finish that'll last, flowcoat applied with a roller (and brush for the corners) is the way to go if you can. It'll give you an "as new" finish. It's all nice having a boat that looks lovely externally, but it's also nice when the locker internals and other internal spaces look sharp too. 
That's a pretty cool boat!
to be completely honest, if she looks good from the harbourside when on the mooring then I will be happy! Obviously I will be doing the best I can, but I wouldn't be dissatisfied if I end up with results similar to your red boat.
I've already bought the toplac plus, and as this is still a shoestring project there's definitely no budget to change now.
Any tips on painting at lower temperatures? As it looks like I'll have around 10degC
to be completely honest, if she looks good from the harbourside when on the mooring then I will be happy! Obviously I will be doing the best I can, but I wouldn't be dissatisfied if I end up with results similar to your red boat.
I've already bought the toplac plus, and as this is still a shoestring project there's definitely no budget to change now.
Any tips on painting at lower temperatures? As it looks like I'll have around 10degC
Audis5b9 said:
Have you got a plan for the osmosis once you come out after this season?
Just now my plan is very outline; grind back, dry out and fill. I'll do plenty of research and decide upon a detailed method and products nearer the time.One benefit of the club I've joined is that there is a crane (for boats up to 2 tonnes) which is available at any time, so it might be beneficial actually to sacrifice some of the sailing season (but not this one!) and do the job during the warmer months mid summer.
D1bram said:
I honestly don't have the time... I am busy at work, with the family and have stacks of jobs needed around the house. However I've decided for a short while I will prioritise this (not over the family of course and I still need to go to work!) and I'm putting a lot of things on hold.
As for the courage, I find I procrastinate, plan and research for ages, often going in circles. If in doubt, just make a start; most jobs can be tackled in more than a couple of ways I find
I get what you're saying, and if my wife was more keen we'd probably have got something by now. You have started me looking wistfully at gumtree etc again though, so thanks for that! As for the courage, I find I procrastinate, plan and research for ages, often going in circles. If in doubt, just make a start; most jobs can be tackled in more than a couple of ways I find
D1bram said:
Any tips on painting at lower temperatures? As it looks like I'll have around 10degC
I'm just prepping to paint my landrover at the moment - and temperature is an issue there too. It's just a "garage" respray, so I'm not worring about it too much. Generally, I'd say paint late morning so it's warmed up and dried out as much as possible and then gives it as long a spell as possible for the paint to dry while it's warmer during the day, so come the evening when it cools down again the paint is mostly dry. And then just be patient with it taking a bit longer to dry.
And if you procrastinate over it for a week or so, I bet it'll be warming up again,
Edited by Arnold Cunningham on Thursday 31st March 11:06
D1bram said:
Just now my plan is very outline; grind back, dry out and fill. I'll do plenty of research and decide upon a detailed method and products nearer the time.
One benefit of the club I've joined is that there is a crane (for boats up to 2 tonnes) which is available at any time, so it might be beneficial actually to sacrifice some of the sailing season (but not this one!) and do the job during the warmer months mid summer.
On the shoestring principle, I'd say monitor, spot repair if there are any particular bad spots, but generally don't worry about it too much.One benefit of the club I've joined is that there is a crane (for boats up to 2 tonnes) which is available at any time, so it might be beneficial actually to sacrifice some of the sailing season (but not this one!) and do the job during the warmer months mid summer.
If you find any particularly bad bits, grind and repair. But the removal of the whole gelcoat and redoing it - what a job!!!! And certainly not justified here.
There's usually 2 schools of thought:
1. Osmosis bad, the boat'll sink and we're all going to die
2. Ignore it completely
Somewhere in the middle is about right - keep an eye on it, don't let any bad patches escalate, more so if the osmosis is in any structural areas, but generally, just crack on and enjoy the boat.
Arnold Cunningham said:
D1bram said:
Just now my plan is very outline; grind back, dry out and fill. I'll do plenty of research and decide upon a detailed method and products nearer the time.
One benefit of the club I've joined is that there is a crane (for boats up to 2 tonnes) which is available at any time, so it might be beneficial actually to sacrifice some of the sailing season (but not this one!) and do the job during the warmer months mid summer.
On the shoestring principle, I'd say monitor, spot repair if there are any particular bad spots, but generally don't worry about it too much.One benefit of the club I've joined is that there is a crane (for boats up to 2 tonnes) which is available at any time, so it might be beneficial actually to sacrifice some of the sailing season (but not this one!) and do the job during the warmer months mid summer.
If you find any particularly bad bits, grind and repair. But the removal of the whole gelcoat and redoing it - what a job!!!! And certainly not justified here.
There's usually 2 schools of thought:
1. Osmosis bad, the boat'll sink and we're all going to die
2. Ignore it completely
Somewhere in the middle is about right - keep an eye on it, don't let any bad patches escalate, more so if the osmosis is in any structural areas, but generally, just crack on and enjoy the boat.
When I used to read ALL the magazines like it was religion in the late 80's/ early 90's osmosis was a word which nobody even dared speak out load in a boatyard. It seems the past 30 years of experience has given most the confidence to realise that while it's undesirable it is not the end for your pride and joy.
Out of interest, what would you consider size wise to be a bad patch?
D1bram said:
to be completely honest, if she looks good from the harbourside when on the mooring then I will be happy!
That's the standard of cosmetic finish I'm happy with too, and that's probably why my boat is back in the water and I could go for a sail yesterday whilst most people are still in the yard and a long way off a launch date Jaguar steve said:
D1bram said:
to be completely honest, if she looks good from the harbourside when on the mooring then I will be happy!
That's the standard of cosmetic finish I'm happy with too, and that's probably why my boat is back in the water and I could go for a sail yesterday whilst most people are still in the yard and a long way off a launch date I popped down the yacht club for a pint last night and was chatting to a guy who had that day got his Coribee AND his Hurley 20 in the water; envious!
On another note, having just said no more spend on the boat I've just messaged a guy about a tohatsu 9.8 for sale locally...
Good motor those. And 9.8 is decent.
I have a Johnson 5hp aux on my 28' powerboat for noise abatement and emergencies.
And I had a 4hp Johnson searhorse (twin cylinder) on an 18' wooden yacht I had once.
Neither were/are really up to the job. The Johnson 4hp would very very barely make headway on the 18' yacht against the tide at WOT coming out of Langstone Harbour. It'd take us an hour to get out the entrance, running as close to the shore as we dared.
I have a Johnson 5hp aux on my 28' powerboat for noise abatement and emergencies.
And I had a 4hp Johnson searhorse (twin cylinder) on an 18' wooden yacht I had once.
Neither were/are really up to the job. The Johnson 4hp would very very barely make headway on the 18' yacht against the tide at WOT coming out of Langstone Harbour. It'd take us an hour to get out the entrance, running as close to the shore as we dared.
D1bram said:
Yes as much as I am enjoying the process I am really keen to actually get sailing asap. Did you say you're in a Leisure 20 Steve or is that a previous boat?
That's what they're for. 
L20 was my previous boat, I sold that a while back, chartered abroad for a few seasons then bought a Hunter Ranger 245 which is a keeper.
Probably.
Being technically minded and as a verean of two osmosis treatments ( one failed) I acquired some knowledge of the dreaded pox.
They say that boats do not sink because of osmosis but I am sure that on rare occasions they do. Digging out the pox on a Sadler, I was 8mm deep in one spot so its easy to see how on a particularly badle laid up hull that the pox could weaken the structure. But it clearly isnt common not least because the worst affected older boats also tended to be the heaviest .
People talk of treating just the blisters which is a bit like treating measles by putting a plaster ofn each spot. In reality the layup is wet with a concentrated solution of styrene etc and the laws of thermodynamics mean that the strenght of the solutions on either side of the gelcoat try to equalise. Hence blisters as osmosis occurs. So the best way by far of treating is to remove the gelcoat and wash the bare laminate with warm fresh water to allow this equalising process to clean out the nasties in the laminate. Then re coat with some sort of gel. So strip the gelcoat in autumn and leave the hull bare to dry out through the winter. The more it gets rained on, the better.
But is this worth it on an old boat? Very doubtful so maybe it is better just to patch and live with it. Just dont think that cures the pox.
The OPs project is great and he will have far more fun pottering with a smaller older boat than he would if he won the lottery and bought a Swan. Bigger is not better in boating. And something to tinker with is more fun than brand new.
They say that boats do not sink because of osmosis but I am sure that on rare occasions they do. Digging out the pox on a Sadler, I was 8mm deep in one spot so its easy to see how on a particularly badle laid up hull that the pox could weaken the structure. But it clearly isnt common not least because the worst affected older boats also tended to be the heaviest .
People talk of treating just the blisters which is a bit like treating measles by putting a plaster ofn each spot. In reality the layup is wet with a concentrated solution of styrene etc and the laws of thermodynamics mean that the strenght of the solutions on either side of the gelcoat try to equalise. Hence blisters as osmosis occurs. So the best way by far of treating is to remove the gelcoat and wash the bare laminate with warm fresh water to allow this equalising process to clean out the nasties in the laminate. Then re coat with some sort of gel. So strip the gelcoat in autumn and leave the hull bare to dry out through the winter. The more it gets rained on, the better.
But is this worth it on an old boat? Very doubtful so maybe it is better just to patch and live with it. Just dont think that cures the pox.
The OPs project is great and he will have far more fun pottering with a smaller older boat than he would if he won the lottery and bought a Swan. Bigger is not better in boating. And something to tinker with is more fun than brand new.
bordseye said:
Being technically minded and as a verean of two osmosis treatments ( one failed) I acquired some knowledge of the dreaded pox.
They say that boats do not sink because of osmosis but I am sure that on rare occasions they do. Digging out the pox on a Sadler, I was 8mm deep in one spot so its easy to see how on a particularly badle laid up hull that the pox could weaken the structure. But it clearly isnt common not least because the worst affected older boats also tended to be the heaviest .
People talk of treating just the blisters which is a bit like treating measles by putting a plaster ofn each spot. In reality the layup is wet with a concentrated solution of styrene etc and the laws of thermodynamics mean that the strenght of the solutions on either side of the gelcoat try to equalise. Hence blisters as osmosis occurs. So the best way by far of treating is to remove the gelcoat and wash the bare laminate with warm fresh water to allow this equalising process to clean out the nasties in the laminate. Then re coat with some sort of gel. So strip the gelcoat in autumn and leave the hull bare to dry out through the winter. The more it gets rained on, the better.
But is this worth it on an old boat? Very doubtful so maybe it is better just to patch and live with it. Just dont think that cures the pox.
The OPs project is great and he will have far more fun pottering with a smaller older boat than he would if he won the lottery and bought a Swan. Bigger is not better in boating. And something to tinker with is more fun than brand new.
Interesting post thanks! I think with my old boat then a patch and live with it route will be the way - though I will do the best job I can.They say that boats do not sink because of osmosis but I am sure that on rare occasions they do. Digging out the pox on a Sadler, I was 8mm deep in one spot so its easy to see how on a particularly badle laid up hull that the pox could weaken the structure. But it clearly isnt common not least because the worst affected older boats also tended to be the heaviest .
People talk of treating just the blisters which is a bit like treating measles by putting a plaster ofn each spot. In reality the layup is wet with a concentrated solution of styrene etc and the laws of thermodynamics mean that the strenght of the solutions on either side of the gelcoat try to equalise. Hence blisters as osmosis occurs. So the best way by far of treating is to remove the gelcoat and wash the bare laminate with warm fresh water to allow this equalising process to clean out the nasties in the laminate. Then re coat with some sort of gel. So strip the gelcoat in autumn and leave the hull bare to dry out through the winter. The more it gets rained on, the better.
But is this worth it on an old boat? Very doubtful so maybe it is better just to patch and live with it. Just dont think that cures the pox.
The OPs project is great and he will have far more fun pottering with a smaller older boat than he would if he won the lottery and bought a Swan. Bigger is not better in boating. And something to tinker with is more fun than brand new.
If you could arrange the lotto win I would be very happy to do the new Swan thing next, contrast, compare and report back
Jaguar steve said:
D1bram said:
Yes as much as I am enjoying the process I am really keen to actually get sailing asap. Did you say you're in a Leisure 20 Steve or is that a previous boat?
That's what they're for. L20 was my previous boat, I sold that a while back, chartered abroad for a few seasons then bought a Hunter Ranger 245 which is a keeper.
Probably.
D1bram said:
Oh nice! They're certainly a lot of boat for the LOA
Really happy with it. It's a great boat to to sail - the rig gives it plenty of power and it's very stiff and points nicely for a twin keel design.Much as we enjoyed the L20 nobody could say it was suited for several days on board and more ambitious passages or channel crossings and it really wasn't safe in heavy weather either.
In comparison the 245 is built like a brick outhouse and is Cat B offshore which means I'll be chickening out long before the boat does.
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