Any 'shoestring' sailors?
Discussion
Captain Answer said:
I have a couple of "shoestring" boats... grew up sailing and working on boats with my dad etc when a teenager
Was browsing FB during lock downs and saw a laser 2 come up with spars and road trolley but no foils or sails, picked that up for £150, just managed to complete the last missing piece recently (rudder) and need to get it all back together now - I think it will want all new cordage etc. Then just need to get myself some kit and get it in the water and teach myself to sail again
Then last week again saw a cheap Laser come up with a full and radial rig for £150 so I pulled the Laser 2 of its road base and went and go that too, need to find/make some battons for it and see about getting that in the water too
Hopefully then teach my son and step son to sail as well
Great stuff! I wouldn’t mind a dinghy, I’m a bit hefty for them these days though, so would need to shift some timber first!!!Was browsing FB during lock downs and saw a laser 2 come up with spars and road trolley but no foils or sails, picked that up for £150, just managed to complete the last missing piece recently (rudder) and need to get it all back together now - I think it will want all new cordage etc. Then just need to get myself some kit and get it in the water and teach myself to sail again
Then last week again saw a cheap Laser come up with a full and radial rig for £150 so I pulled the Laser 2 of its road base and went and go that too, need to find/make some battons for it and see about getting that in the water too
Hopefully then teach my son and step son to sail as well
bordseye said:
D1bram said:
Great man maths eh? Sad thing is I'm selling my MX-5 though!!!
It's an Iona 23 - we weren't sure when we bought her but had it since confirmed. Slightly bigger than the Hurley and MUCH more spacious inside, she feels very different. But yes, nice lines I'd reckon a good sea boat.
Plan had been to simply break her, but within 2 minutes of viewing we'd both decided she's far too good for that (not to mention what the previous owner has done so far is decent work).
So we're going to get her finished, then decide what we want to do!
Happy to update on progress with this one (and the hurley come winter) if there's still interest.
Its fun sorting out boats but you do need to mind how much you spend. At one of my clubs we have a compound full of old British GRP cruisers, some of which are for sale and many of them have given up hope of a sale. People simply dont have the time or desire to do up old boats so many are given away or indeed chopped up if the owner cant find anyone to take it. It's an Iona 23 - we weren't sure when we bought her but had it since confirmed. Slightly bigger than the Hurley and MUCH more spacious inside, she feels very different. But yes, nice lines I'd reckon a good sea boat.
Plan had been to simply break her, but within 2 minutes of viewing we'd both decided she's far too good for that (not to mention what the previous owner has done so far is decent work).
So we're going to get her finished, then decide what we want to do!
Happy to update on progress with this one (and the hurley come winter) if there's still interest.
You dont want to spnd lots of time and some cash doing up a boat which then cant be given away
.
We even discussed last night in sticking one in another location for some holiday sailing
Was sailing last Wednesday in a Platu 25, very much like a big dinghy and incredibly weight sensitive - I'll be joining them for races whenever I can, so hopefully learn a bit then.
I did sail dinghies as a teenager, but that was a long time ago now!
Our tender is actually an old GRP Optimist, I keep half an eye for a rig but it's low priority. I do have an old Merlin Rocket rig and sails at my parents house which I might one day chop down to do the job - but an optimist isn't going to sail very well with me in it
I did sail dinghies as a teenager, but that was a long time ago now!
Our tender is actually an old GRP Optimist, I keep half an eye for a rig but it's low priority. I do have an old Merlin Rocket rig and sails at my parents house which I might one day chop down to do the job - but an optimist isn't going to sail very well with me in it
bristolracer said:
You should cross post in the council thread.
Old broken boat on the drive is definitely council behaviour.
Your thread does send me looking at 'cheap' boats, good luck with resto 2
I feel that to qualify as fully council it needs to sit completely untouched for at least 5 years!Old broken boat on the drive is definitely council behaviour.
Your thread does send me looking at 'cheap' boats, good luck with resto 2
In fairness we've tried to placate the neighbours with promises that it will be moved on asap... though now I know it fits I'll probably bring the other one home over winter!!
Yep, 3 now! Though hopefully down to one.
Rough plan is, sell Ada (boat one) which frees up space for this new one. She’s advertised and I already have some interest so hopefully not long.
Restore the latest (Astra) and bring her home to Sunderland. I need to work fast as the yard owner want her gone ASAP
Then finally… boat two. She’s on my drive, so costing nothing to store. So sorry neighbours but she is the lowest priority. I will start work on her again late spring but in the meantime if someone comes along they can have her for what she owes me at that point in time.
Rough plan is, sell Ada (boat one) which frees up space for this new one. She’s advertised and I already have some interest so hopefully not long.
Restore the latest (Astra) and bring her home to Sunderland. I need to work fast as the yard owner want her gone ASAP
Then finally… boat two. She’s on my drive, so costing nothing to store. So sorry neighbours but she is the lowest priority. I will start work on her again late spring but in the meantime if someone comes along they can have her for what she owes me at that point in time.
It is about a month now since we took on this latest boat, it's been a hectic one with life and all the plans we foolishly made assuming we wouldn't have black hole of a boat project to swallow our time... but we have made progress.
Our first full day at the boat was a Saturday, spent excitedly assessing what we have and what is needed. The needed list kept growing and growing...
At first glance she needs:
- Rudder refitting (oh and it's been chopped off!)
- Mast rewiring, new blocks & sheaves. Luckily the standing rigging looks very good
- Mast refitting, oh yeah the tabernacle is bent!
- Interior, well where to start? She's got the space we craved after the 22 but its... grim
- Rubbing strake on port side replacing
- Windows fitting (replacements came with the boat)
- Full rewire
- Service and recommission the engine
- bottom paint
- Seacocks
Apart from a million other little jobs and niceties that's about it... easy!
Well no, this is a much bigger project than Ada was.
Speaking of which, job number one the following day was to sail her off to her knew home. She sold very quickly to a great guy who is new to sailing and as he was moving her just a short hop down the coast to Hartlepool we agreed we would sail her down with him.
A few photos from that first day aboard Astra as she is known currently...
So far we have outsourced the engine service and overhaul which is done pending a couple of remedial jobs, found someone to tackle the welding and steelwork on the rudder and other odd jobs like straightening the tabernacle which is currently underway and commissioned a new rubbing strake and companionway (more on that later) from a local joinery shop.
We have meanwhile been tackling that interior which I will go into with my next post
Our first full day at the boat was a Saturday, spent excitedly assessing what we have and what is needed. The needed list kept growing and growing...
At first glance she needs:
- Rudder refitting (oh and it's been chopped off!)
- Mast rewiring, new blocks & sheaves. Luckily the standing rigging looks very good
- Mast refitting, oh yeah the tabernacle is bent!
- Interior, well where to start? She's got the space we craved after the 22 but its... grim
- Rubbing strake on port side replacing
- Windows fitting (replacements came with the boat)
- Full rewire
- Service and recommission the engine
- bottom paint
- Seacocks
Apart from a million other little jobs and niceties that's about it... easy!
Well no, this is a much bigger project than Ada was.
Speaking of which, job number one the following day was to sail her off to her knew home. She sold very quickly to a great guy who is new to sailing and as he was moving her just a short hop down the coast to Hartlepool we agreed we would sail her down with him.
A few photos from that first day aboard Astra as she is known currently...
So far we have outsourced the engine service and overhaul which is done pending a couple of remedial jobs, found someone to tackle the welding and steelwork on the rudder and other odd jobs like straightening the tabernacle which is currently underway and commissioned a new rubbing strake and companionway (more on that later) from a local joinery shop.
We have meanwhile been tackling that interior which I will go into with my next post
On to the interior.
She's not capacious by modern standards, with only 8 feet of beam, but she is deep and with the floors in will still offer standing headroom throughout (6'3" in the main cabin reportedly). She has a fairly traditional layout with a separate forecabin, narrow but with two full size bunks and some standing room, a toilet compartment and hanging locker opposite amidships, then a saloon with a dinette to one side and galley opposite behind which is a large quarter berth which comes well into the cabin so will offer additional seating.
The floors as you will have seen in my last photos are missing, but we have these as home. The previous owner had commissioned a full set in solid Iroko hardwood along with a new set of companionway steps (these are of spruce I think). They're very beautiful and while it's probably an expense I wouldn't have stretched to personally they will be a fantastic finishing touch.
Meanwhile, she clearly needed work everywhere, so
My wife, Bec, immediately declared that she was starting in the forecabin and set to work cleaning and scraping, while I started at the companion way bulkhead suspicious poking some soft looking patches.
It wasn't long before Bec called through to say she had also found evidence of the dreaded rot too.
There was only one course of action really. Retire to the pub for a pint and bag of dry roasted to ponder the next move.
Only one thing for it we decided, and the cutting commenced....
I started off taking out small sections, hoping in vain I could patch it... but that just uncovered more rot!
So I kept cutting...
And ended up with big hole!
This needed more pub time of course, but I think I have come to terms now with what we have on our hands
She's not capacious by modern standards, with only 8 feet of beam, but she is deep and with the floors in will still offer standing headroom throughout (6'3" in the main cabin reportedly). She has a fairly traditional layout with a separate forecabin, narrow but with two full size bunks and some standing room, a toilet compartment and hanging locker opposite amidships, then a saloon with a dinette to one side and galley opposite behind which is a large quarter berth which comes well into the cabin so will offer additional seating.
The floors as you will have seen in my last photos are missing, but we have these as home. The previous owner had commissioned a full set in solid Iroko hardwood along with a new set of companionway steps (these are of spruce I think). They're very beautiful and while it's probably an expense I wouldn't have stretched to personally they will be a fantastic finishing touch.
Meanwhile, she clearly needed work everywhere, so
My wife, Bec, immediately declared that she was starting in the forecabin and set to work cleaning and scraping, while I started at the companion way bulkhead suspicious poking some soft looking patches.
It wasn't long before Bec called through to say she had also found evidence of the dreaded rot too.
There was only one course of action really. Retire to the pub for a pint and bag of dry roasted to ponder the next move.
Only one thing for it we decided, and the cutting commenced....
I started off taking out small sections, hoping in vain I could patch it... but that just uncovered more rot!
So I kept cutting...
And ended up with big hole!
This needed more pub time of course, but I think I have come to terms now with what we have on our hands
Hi Arnold, I have already bought the Marine Ply unfortunately! Luckily though took the main bulkhead out in enough good sections (the smashed up bit you see above is a cupboard behind it) to be able to produce a carboard template (you can see below, screenshotted from our project instagram account my wife set up) which I'll take and fit/adjust accordingly before I cut. I think I will use your trick on the cupboard bulkhead behind though.
Can I have your opinion actually... tabbing the new bulkhead in will be impossible from the blind side I think, so my proposed solution is to fit a 'dwarf' bulkhead which I will then epoxy back to. I also am in something of a quandary as to whether I need to spaced the bulkhead from the hull, these sketches hopefully explain:
Can I have your opinion actually... tabbing the new bulkhead in will be impossible from the blind side I think, so my proposed solution is to fit a 'dwarf' bulkhead which I will then epoxy back to. I also am in something of a quandary as to whether I need to spaced the bulkhead from the hull, these sketches hopefully explain:
Disastrous said:
Enjoyed the thread OP - thanks for sharing so far.
My only humble contribution would be in the naming of the new vessel. If the old one was Ada and the new one Astra, “Ad Astra” would seem like a suitably dramatic name going forward…
Thanks! My only humble contribution would be in the naming of the new vessel. If the old one was Ada and the new one Astra, “Ad Astra” would seem like a suitably dramatic name going forward…
And I quite like Ad Astra, however we have loads of documentation for her and it seems originally her name was Tigh Na Mara - Gaelic for house by the sea which we rather like
Arnold Cunningham said:
Yes. Moreover, not just a hard point but also pulls in slightly as the resin goes off. But this is an old hurlet we're talking about, I think there's likely a good bit of thickness on the topsides GRP there, so I reckon method 3 will be fine. Nevertheless, for completeness sake, there are a couple of different techniques to this - different boatbuilders all have their preferences.
Method 1 : Crestomer 2" wide bit of foam, about 1/2" thick, with a 45 degree shamfer on the edgers where the bulkhead is going to go. Make bulkhead a nice tight fit to the foam and glass it all in nice and tight with the laminate tight into the corners, down the chamfer and a couple of inches beyond.
Method 2 : Leave a looser fit (let's say 1/2" to 3/4" all round) on the bulkhead and DO NOT laminate hard into the corners - use one of these to put a radius in the corners: https://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/paddle-roll...
Method 3 : If your topsides are a bit thicker, or are cored, or you're just not too worried, you can just laminate them in up tight. Worst case, if the laminate is a bit thin you can see where it pulls very slightly as the resin dried.
It is possible to over think it, for sure, but loads and loads of places just laminate it in and be done with it. You're not trying to be Jason Carrington building the next IMOCA.
Ah my local supplier ECF! Method 1 : Crestomer 2" wide bit of foam, about 1/2" thick, with a 45 degree shamfer on the edgers where the bulkhead is going to go. Make bulkhead a nice tight fit to the foam and glass it all in nice and tight with the laminate tight into the corners, down the chamfer and a couple of inches beyond.
Method 2 : Leave a looser fit (let's say 1/2" to 3/4" all round) on the bulkhead and DO NOT laminate hard into the corners - use one of these to put a radius in the corners: https://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/paddle-roll...
Method 3 : If your topsides are a bit thicker, or are cored, or you're just not too worried, you can just laminate them in up tight. Worst case, if the laminate is a bit thin you can see where it pulls very slightly as the resin dried.
It is possible to over think it, for sure, but loads and loads of places just laminate it in and be done with it. You're not trying to be Jason Carrington building the next IMOCA.
Just to clarify then... what you are calling method 3 is my Option A in the diagram I posted earlier? Or at least very similar? It does appear to me that Hurley had put them in up against the hull. I don't mind going with one of the more involved methods, if it's going to be better long term - I only want to do the job once!
Edited by D1bram on Tuesday 21st February 20:23
Arnold Cunningham said:
Nah. Your option one is something else.
My method 3 is to just glass it in. Which if is what Hurley did originally, will therefore be fine.
Your option one has special extra bits, woven and all sorts. Even dwarf bulkheads.
Do have a look at what was done originally, but with all due respect, it’s just a low performance old fashioned cruiser. It’s lovely, but doesn’t need anything crazy doing to make it plenty strong enough.
Oh I’m all for simple! The dwarf bulkhead though is simply because I won’t be able to get to the rear to glass that side - if you see what I mean My method 3 is to just glass it in. Which if is what Hurley did originally, will therefore be fine.
Your option one has special extra bits, woven and all sorts. Even dwarf bulkheads.
Do have a look at what was done originally, but with all due respect, it’s just a low performance old fashioned cruiser. It’s lovely, but doesn’t need anything crazy doing to make it plenty strong enough.
OutInTheShed said:
The thing is, it is a low tech GRP sailing boat.
It may change shape quite a lot, when it goes from sat on its keel in the yard, to floating with the keel hanging on the boat.
That may cause the bulkhead to look like a 'hard spot' in the topsides.
People have been known to glass in the bulkheads while the boat is floating. That is perhaps a bit extreme, but you can think about how the boat is supported, in the factory, maybe there would be a cradle that fits the hull and the keel would not be bolted on yet?
A compromise is to take some of the weight on a cradle, maybe via f-off ratchet straps.
A bloke I used to drink with worked the hoist in a well known Solent yard. He would comment on the quality of hulls according to how much lowering went on between the keel first touching the concrete and the weight going off the slings.
If your 'tabbing' of the bulkhead is substantial, it becomes a ring, the plywood in the middle doesn't do much.
These are things we think about, beating through big waves when the boat starts to creak!
Is this bulkhead taking the rig loads?
It's a nice boat by the way, it won't be hard to keep it seaworthy, but getting the fundamentals 'just so' helps in the long run IMHO.
You make a great point! On Ada, the companionway step slotted in between the quarterberths. On the hard it was loose, on the water a much snugger fit!It may change shape quite a lot, when it goes from sat on its keel in the yard, to floating with the keel hanging on the boat.
That may cause the bulkhead to look like a 'hard spot' in the topsides.
People have been known to glass in the bulkheads while the boat is floating. That is perhaps a bit extreme, but you can think about how the boat is supported, in the factory, maybe there would be a cradle that fits the hull and the keel would not be bolted on yet?
A compromise is to take some of the weight on a cradle, maybe via f-off ratchet straps.
A bloke I used to drink with worked the hoist in a well known Solent yard. He would comment on the quality of hulls according to how much lowering went on between the keel first touching the concrete and the weight going off the slings.
If your 'tabbing' of the bulkhead is substantial, it becomes a ring, the plywood in the middle doesn't do much.
These are things we think about, beating through big waves when the boat starts to creak!
Is this bulkhead taking the rig loads?
It's a nice boat by the way, it won't be hard to keep it seaworthy, but getting the fundamentals 'just so' helps in the long run IMHO.
It's not a bulkhead taking the rig as far as I can tell, but I suppose they all do their bit.
Having slept on this I am going to get it into place with a small gap round (it will screw into bearers either side of the engine to hold it) then tab / glass it in from the front side. I will coat the whole thing in epoxy first to make sure it is water proof and put a layer of glass over the back where it will be sitting in the bilge.
Thanks BMWMike - sadly the kids are not so keen!
Arnold, you've given me another lightbulb moment! That bulkhead does indeed have a hatch cut out in it - if I put it back slightly larger then I can probably lean through to tab it. On the right in this photo, I'll just fit the locker floor afterwards;
I can't find a photo of the main bulkhead (separating the main cabin from the heads and fore cabin) but yes, this sits directly under the mast step.
Agreed though, forces will move around all over the place!
Arnold, you've given me another lightbulb moment! That bulkhead does indeed have a hatch cut out in it - if I put it back slightly larger then I can probably lean through to tab it. On the right in this photo, I'll just fit the locker floor afterwards;
I can't find a photo of the main bulkhead (separating the main cabin from the heads and fore cabin) but yes, this sits directly under the mast step.
Agreed though, forces will move around all over the place!
Another weekend of boatwork...
Up early Saturday to pick up our wood work, which consists of the new rubbing strake and toe rail (no pictures just yet) and the new companionway sections which are just lovely!
Made of Sapele, they'll have a coat of teak oil before being fitted.
So, back to Saturday. Bec and I cracked on inside, she's got the forecabin looking much smarter already (again, sorry no photos) and I set to work finishing getting the last bits of companionway bulkhead out and tidied up. I then set Bec in (I doubt I'd fit!) to make a start on painting out the cockpit locker while access is good.
Sunday, I had a few hours up there alone so I cracked on with removing the existing skin fittings and seacocks. The smallest gave up without a fight but the 1inch cockpit fittings and the old blakes heads fittings took ages between them, but it's done and new are ordered.
What a motley crew!
I realise many would disagree with the removal of proper blakes type seacocks, but these are fittings which we no longer require and will be glassed up. I'm also a total convert to Trudesign composite fittings; no corrosion, no electrolytic reactions and they can be epoxy bonded to the hull. I won't bin the Blakes though, I've told my stepson if he cleans them up he can keep whatever they can be sold for.
Back home, we've cracked on oiling the Iroko flooring (looking amazing!) and stained the softwood steps the boat came with ahead of a coat of varnish.
Still lots to do to get afloat, but I thought I'd share where I am with budget.
The boat was ostensibly free, though I settled around £500 of the previous owners remaining contract and bought various bits from him too (all with inherent value) totalling £700 including a nice 6hp outboard which I might end up selling on.
So £1200 purchase cost, I then set a £5000 budget for the work:
It's a really good job I'm not in this for the money!
Up early Saturday to pick up our wood work, which consists of the new rubbing strake and toe rail (no pictures just yet) and the new companionway sections which are just lovely!
Made of Sapele, they'll have a coat of teak oil before being fitted.
So, back to Saturday. Bec and I cracked on inside, she's got the forecabin looking much smarter already (again, sorry no photos) and I set to work finishing getting the last bits of companionway bulkhead out and tidied up. I then set Bec in (I doubt I'd fit!) to make a start on painting out the cockpit locker while access is good.
Sunday, I had a few hours up there alone so I cracked on with removing the existing skin fittings and seacocks. The smallest gave up without a fight but the 1inch cockpit fittings and the old blakes heads fittings took ages between them, but it's done and new are ordered.
What a motley crew!
I realise many would disagree with the removal of proper blakes type seacocks, but these are fittings which we no longer require and will be glassed up. I'm also a total convert to Trudesign composite fittings; no corrosion, no electrolytic reactions and they can be epoxy bonded to the hull. I won't bin the Blakes though, I've told my stepson if he cleans them up he can keep whatever they can be sold for.
Back home, we've cracked on oiling the Iroko flooring (looking amazing!) and stained the softwood steps the boat came with ahead of a coat of varnish.
Still lots to do to get afloat, but I thought I'd share where I am with budget.
The boat was ostensibly free, though I settled around £500 of the previous owners remaining contract and bought various bits from him too (all with inherent value) totalling £700 including a nice 6hp outboard which I might end up selling on.
So £1200 purchase cost, I then set a £5000 budget for the work:
It's a really good job I'm not in this for the money!
Edited by D1bram on Monday 27th February 12:21
Fortunately lack of updates doesn't mean we haven't been busy! So in no particular order our recent work has included;
- Work at home on the new companionway bulkhead, looking lovely having been stained and then coated in West Systems Epoxy and 207 (special finish) hardener. Sadly I will need to make a cut to fit into the boat, but it will be low down and out of sight, and it will be rejoined in situ. There's surrounding woodwork going on at the same time too to rebuild this entire area.
- Fitted the rudder, though we've found it must have been spaced off the hull where the tube bolts off so I have some nylon/HDPE to make up some spacers and we will have a fettle.
- Fitted the new companionway, this has highlighted the need to make new washboards! Needs staining and the sikaflex trimmed
- Fitted a window, this was really satisfying. It's a frameless window which is bolted into place. Instead of sikaflex or similar we used a single side bedding tape from Scarpa which you stick in place to the boat then offer up the window, bolt it up and the tape forms a watertight gasket. Unfortunately removing and cleaning the residue from the tape which had been covering the window holes was a right chore, we had arrived later on last Sunday so this job saw us working into the dark.
- Leaky deck fittings have been reseated, rotten backing plates replaced with marine ply (epoxied)
- All skin fittings replaced with Trudesign, matching seacocks going on this weeked
- Redundant skin fittings glassed up
- Painting as and where we can
This weekend we will sort the rudder, hopefully fit the other window and carry on with the rebuild behind where the replacement bulkhead goes - lots of parallel work going on.
Oh, I also bought us a mobile shed/workshop as I'm sick of using my focus as a van. Longer term we will turn this into a bit of a day/adventure/camper van.
- Work at home on the new companionway bulkhead, looking lovely having been stained and then coated in West Systems Epoxy and 207 (special finish) hardener. Sadly I will need to make a cut to fit into the boat, but it will be low down and out of sight, and it will be rejoined in situ. There's surrounding woodwork going on at the same time too to rebuild this entire area.
- Fitted the rudder, though we've found it must have been spaced off the hull where the tube bolts off so I have some nylon/HDPE to make up some spacers and we will have a fettle.
- Fitted the new companionway, this has highlighted the need to make new washboards! Needs staining and the sikaflex trimmed
- Fitted a window, this was really satisfying. It's a frameless window which is bolted into place. Instead of sikaflex or similar we used a single side bedding tape from Scarpa which you stick in place to the boat then offer up the window, bolt it up and the tape forms a watertight gasket. Unfortunately removing and cleaning the residue from the tape which had been covering the window holes was a right chore, we had arrived later on last Sunday so this job saw us working into the dark.
- Leaky deck fittings have been reseated, rotten backing plates replaced with marine ply (epoxied)
- All skin fittings replaced with Trudesign, matching seacocks going on this weeked
- Redundant skin fittings glassed up
- Painting as and where we can
This weekend we will sort the rudder, hopefully fit the other window and carry on with the rebuild behind where the replacement bulkhead goes - lots of parallel work going on.
Oh, I also bought us a mobile shed/workshop as I'm sick of using my focus as a van. Longer term we will turn this into a bit of a day/adventure/camper van.
hidetheelephants said:
D1bram said:
Excellent stuff. You won't be after extra jobs to do but that rudder looks to be an awful shape, transom hung rudders are always a bit of a compromise but it should be vaguely aerofoil shaped with a fine taper down to the trailing edge which should be no more than 10-15mm thick; a new rudder might be a good winter project to keep motivation up in the long dark months.I would argue though that transom hung rudders are pretty ideal in a cruising boat, well protected and relatively easily replaced or repaired.
Once it’s one properly I plan to strip the old paint, then hit it with the angle grinder and epoxy to do the best I can
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