Ask a helicopter pilot anything
Discussion
El stovey said:
My mate from school was playing in a band and was on stage when it happened. Pretty horrendous all round. As a pilot we often focus on the technical human nature of the events and trying to learn from them.
Then we read or hear about the after effects on the passengers or people and survivors or the loved ones of the deceased and realise there’s a big responsibility flying a machine full of people or fuel around especially low over populated areas.
On a happier note.
Have you ever used your job to get girls?
My workmate was a navy helicopter pilot (we’ve got loads of ex forces pilots in my airline) and when he first joined he was always telling all the hosties he was a “naval aviator” Then one night down route in the bar he was banging on about landing on the back of a ship or something and some other bloke turned out to be ex red arrows. One of the girls then innocently asked my “naval aviator” mate if that meant Mr red arrows was a better pilot than him.
Nobody can top trump the red arrows
Your mate on stage was damn lucky….lottery ticket time I guess.Then we read or hear about the after effects on the passengers or people and survivors or the loved ones of the deceased and realise there’s a big responsibility flying a machine full of people or fuel around especially low over populated areas.
On a happier note.
Have you ever used your job to get girls?
My workmate was a navy helicopter pilot (we’ve got loads of ex forces pilots in my airline) and when he first joined he was always telling all the hosties he was a “naval aviator” Then one night down route in the bar he was banging on about landing on the back of a ship or something and some other bloke turned out to be ex red arrows. One of the girls then innocently asked my “naval aviator” mate if that meant Mr red arrows was a better pilot than him.
Nobody can top trump the red arrows
Ref girls……Well kind of but not really used the pilot thing. I never made a big deal out of the pilot thing when I was single because a) I thought it was a bit desperate and b) girls were always more interested in fast pointy stuff or airline pilots than the us pilots of the throbbing vibrating mighty steeds of doom….hang on a mo!
Anyway, I went to Ibiza many years back with two Lawyer chums and we met some really rather lovely ladies who we got on famously with. My mates loved the fact I was a pilot and were constantly bigging me up to this girl that I liked as this hotshot RAF pilot. She didn’t really believe me even though I said I was only training to be one anyway and not even qualified. In fact I got so tired of trying to convince her I was a lowly trainee helicopter pilot I told her it was just banter and my mates were trying to get me laid and I was actually a trainee accountant. At which point she said she knew I was lying as I wasn’t the pilot type! But for some reason that seemed to do it for her, maybe even out of sympathy and a successful friendship was created
So it’s a yes but no but
Edited by Siko on Sunday 24th April 17:00
Lost ranger said:
Is there any truth in the theory that by using the pedals to reduce power to the tail rotor you can get extra climb performance at the expense of spinning round and making everyone dizzy?
100% true…one pedal is the power pedal and takes power from the main rotor, the other one effectively gives you more power (by just letting the fuselage naturally turn as it wants to due to the torque reaction - equal and opposite reactions etc). So yes, you could in theory get extra power by using a bit of pedal…..not too much though lol or it would all get messy.Siko said:
b) girls were always more interested in fast pointy stuff or airline pilots than the us pilots of the throbbing vibrating mighty steeds of doom….hang on a mo! ]
The worst/funniest rip-off of someone else's work I'd heard (stolen from various Fast Jets I think) was an awful description of the Merlin (from a seriously cabbagey Groundcrew SNCO) which called it a "Double Rotor Triple Motor Carbon Fibre Troop Provider" 
(and technically wrong too).If that wasn't sickening enough, the rumour I'd heard in Afghan which was that someone Aircrew (front end) in Jan '10 at JHF-A had heard that description, was very impressed by it and wanted to use that description below the "Merlin humping a Chinny" wall art before they were fairly swiftly talked out of it.
Chickenhawk is a great read. Recommended to me (when I was a young first officer ) by an American guy, one of our captains. He was North Sea Helicopters before switching to fixed wing in the late eighties/early nineties.
His first flying role? Huey pilot, Vietnam.....
He never talked about it unless you asked. But when you did, offfft. Some of his stories.... Pretty much similar to the book. He was always quite sanguine about it all though.
One question I remember asking him..
"What was it like flying in under so much ground fire?"
In His finest Virginian drawl...
"Well they were shooting at us so we shot back!!! Any more dumb ass questions???"
His first flying role? Huey pilot, Vietnam.....
He never talked about it unless you asked. But when you did, offfft. Some of his stories.... Pretty much similar to the book. He was always quite sanguine about it all though.
One question I remember asking him..
"What was it like flying in under so much ground fire?"
In His finest Virginian drawl...
"Well they were shooting at us so we shot back!!! Any more dumb ass questions???"
Bought this many moons ago, still reading it, must have read it about four times, still fascinating reading.
Two things stick in my mind
Using the rotary wing as a hover mower to enlarge a landing space, says it all the blades on a Huey are very wide
Grossly overweight with soldiers, under fire from vastly outnumbered Vietcong on top of a hill. Just able to lift off but struggling to get forward motion so careers over the edge just above the stall and waits for the speed to increase in dive. Nerves of tungsten!
Edited to clarify, enlarged not created landing space
Two things stick in my mind
Using the rotary wing as a hover mower to enlarge a landing space, says it all the blades on a Huey are very wide
Grossly overweight with soldiers, under fire from vastly outnumbered Vietcong on top of a hill. Just able to lift off but struggling to get forward motion so careers over the edge just above the stall and waits for the speed to increase in dive. Nerves of tungsten!
Edited to clarify, enlarged not created landing space
Edited by Mercdriver on Tuesday 26th April 12:59
El stovey said:
Have you ever used your job to get girls?
When out on the pull with my brother, he being commercial helicopter pilot. To a nice girl or girls in a venue.
Me: "you'd like my brother over there he's a surgeon. Nerves of steel."
They turn to him.
Him. " Ha, what a joke, he's the surgeon, I'm a helicopter pilot"
It's worked once and once only.
Siko said:
I fly Sikorsky S92A which is like a big old heavy American V8…..love it! It’s a great helicopter if a bit basc but very much 90s technology so the Fadec doesn’t sort everything out sadly 
Had to Google it to see what they look like as I'm not immediately familiar. In doing so, Google presented this amusing link.
https://www.aircraftcostcalculator.com/AircraftOpe...
"Depending on numerous factors the average price for a pre-owned Sikorsky-S-92 is $16,750,000.00. A $8,375,000.00 loan over 120 months including $34895.83 per month in interest equates to a $419,953.61 per-period payment. Based on 450 annual owner-operated hours and $5.12-per-gallon fuel cost, the Sikorsky-S-92 has total variable costs of $1,158,850.80, total fixed costs of $361,400.00, and an annual budget of $1,520,250.80. This breaks down to $3,378.34 per hour"
That's just like PCP'ing a 318D, yeah?!
Philibuster said:
Great thread, thanks Siko (and others) for sharing their info and experiences.
Bought Chickenhawk and Low Level Hell, thanks for the tips. Started Chickenhawk and it's gripping stuff.
Thanks and glad you’re enjoying the books! ‘To the limit’ is another good book in the same vein as Chickenhawk.Bought Chickenhawk and Low Level Hell, thanks for the tips. Started Chickenhawk and it's gripping stuff.
Mercdriver said:
Bought this many moons ago, still reading it, must have read it about four times, still fascinating reading.
Two things stick in my mind
Using the rotary wing as a hover mower to enlarge a landing space, says it all the blades on a Huey are very wide
Grossly overweight with soldiers, under fire from vastly outnumbered Vietcong on top of a hill. Just able to lift off but struggling to get forward motion so careers over the edge just above the stall and waits for the speed to increase in dive. Nerves of tungsten!
Edited to clarify, enlarged not created landing space
That’s just nuts….those guys were bloody amazing. I did my S92 type rating in West Palm Beach (tough gig I know…!) and our groundschool instructor was an ex-Cobra pilot. He had heaps of great stories about blowing stuff up in Vietnam but I remember him describing how he was trying to blow up a small bunker with rockets and every time he lined up on the bunker he had to pull away due to ground fire. The last time he rolled in, determined to get ‘that goddamn VC!’ but he got absolutely riddled by AAA and pulled away again without firing his rockets. I asked him what he did then and he said he went home in shame “if he goddamn wanted that bunker so much, he could goddamn keep it!”Two things stick in my mind
Using the rotary wing as a hover mower to enlarge a landing space, says it all the blades on a Huey are very wide
Grossly overweight with soldiers, under fire from vastly outnumbered Vietcong on top of a hill. Just able to lift off but struggling to get forward motion so careers over the edge just above the stall and waits for the speed to increase in dive. Nerves of tungsten!
Edited to clarify, enlarged not created landing space
Edited by Mercdriver on Tuesday 26th April 12:59
Edited by Siko on Tuesday 26th April 17:24
The_Doc said:
When out on the pull with my brother, he being commercial helicopter pilot.
To a nice girl or girls in a venue.
Me: "you'd like my brother over there he's a surgeon. Nerves of steel."
They turn to him.
Him. " Ha, what a joke, he's the surgeon, I'm a helicopter pilot"
It's worked once and once only.
To a nice girl or girls in a venue.
Me: "you'd like my brother over there he's a surgeon. Nerves of steel."
They turn to him.
Him. " Ha, what a joke, he's the surgeon, I'm a helicopter pilot"
It's worked once and once only.
I have a mate who is a surgeon and I can confirm surgeons are way more popular with the opposite sex than a lowly pilot PurpleTurtle said:
Had to Google it to see what they look like as I'm not immediately familiar.
In doing so, Google presented this amusing link.
https://www.aircraftcostcalculator.com/AircraftOpe...
"Depending on numerous factors the average price for a pre-owned Sikorsky-S-92 is $16,750,000.00. A $8,375,000.00 loan over 120 months including $34895.83 per month in interest equates to a $419,953.61 per-period payment. Based on 450 annual owner-operated hours and $5.12-per-gallon fuel cost, the Sikorsky-S-92 has total variable costs of $1,158,850.80, total fixed costs of $361,400.00, and an annual budget of $1,520,250.80. This breaks down to $3,378.34 per hour"
That's just like PCP'ing a 318D, yeah?!
That’s not too bad to be fair! When I hired an Agusta 109 for my Instrument rating in 2012, I paid £1800/hr which probably isn’t too far off the S92 price nowadays.In doing so, Google presented this amusing link.
https://www.aircraftcostcalculator.com/AircraftOpe...
"Depending on numerous factors the average price for a pre-owned Sikorsky-S-92 is $16,750,000.00. A $8,375,000.00 loan over 120 months including $34895.83 per month in interest equates to a $419,953.61 per-period payment. Based on 450 annual owner-operated hours and $5.12-per-gallon fuel cost, the Sikorsky-S-92 has total variable costs of $1,158,850.80, total fixed costs of $361,400.00, and an annual budget of $1,520,250.80. This breaks down to $3,378.34 per hour"
That's just like PCP'ing a 318D, yeah?!
IanH755 said:
The worst/funniest rip-off of someone else's work I'd heard (stolen from various Fast Jets I think) was an awful description of the Merlin (from a seriously cabbagey Groundcrew SNCO) which called it a "Double Rotor Triple Motor Carbon Fibre Troop Provider" (and technically wrong too).
If that wasn't sickening enough, the rumour I'd heard in Afghan which was that someone Aircrew (front end) in Jan '10 at JHF-A had heard that description, was very impressed by it and wanted to use that description below the "Merlin humping a Chinny" wall art before they were fairly swiftly talked out of it.
Lol never heard of that description of a Merlin! I do remember the mural though and have a great picture of it and the name wall from the IRT shack in Al Amarah. (and technically wrong too).If that wasn't sickening enough, the rumour I'd heard in Afghan which was that someone Aircrew (front end) in Jan '10 at JHF-A had heard that description, was very impressed by it and wanted to use that description below the "Merlin humping a Chinny" wall art before they were fairly swiftly talked out of it.
Siko said:
PurpleTurtle said:
Had to Google it to see what they look like as I'm not immediately familiar.
In doing so, Google presented this amusing link.
https://www.aircraftcostcalculator.com/AircraftOpe...
"Depending on numerous factors the average price for a pre-owned Sikorsky-S-92 is $16,750,000.00. A $8,375,000.00 loan over 120 months including $34895.83 per month in interest equates to a $419,953.61 per-period payment. Based on 450 annual owner-operated hours and $5.12-per-gallon fuel cost, the Sikorsky-S-92 has total variable costs of $1,158,850.80, total fixed costs of $361,400.00, and an annual budget of $1,520,250.80. This breaks down to $3,378.34 per hour"
That's just like PCP'ing a 318D, yeah?!
That’s not too bad to be fair! When I hired an Agusta 109 for my Instrument rating in 2012, I paid £1800/hr which probably isn’t too far off the S92 price nowadays.In doing so, Google presented this amusing link.
https://www.aircraftcostcalculator.com/AircraftOpe...
"Depending on numerous factors the average price for a pre-owned Sikorsky-S-92 is $16,750,000.00. A $8,375,000.00 loan over 120 months including $34895.83 per month in interest equates to a $419,953.61 per-period payment. Based on 450 annual owner-operated hours and $5.12-per-gallon fuel cost, the Sikorsky-S-92 has total variable costs of $1,158,850.80, total fixed costs of $361,400.00, and an annual budget of $1,520,250.80. This breaks down to $3,378.34 per hour"
That's just like PCP'ing a 318D, yeah?!
Someone early in my career said "don't worry about the big numbers, they're just more zeros but the same logic" - as I was staring at an invoice for the purchase of a 747-400 ($140M or thereabouts).....
Instrument ratings were interesting, in my time at that operator (before the OP's arrival) we had the one and only UK CAA certified single engined helicopter for IFR training - a heavily modified Agusta-Bell 206 Jet Ranger. We had to retire it and the cheapest option was to buy a training school that had a Twin Squirrel AS355 and Sims equipped for the task. One of my most memorable missions - got a call to say we were buying the training school and casually enquired as to "anyone inspected the aircraft ?" When the answer was no I had to do a hasty trip to another part of the UK only to discover half the records for the aircraft from before it was imported to the UK were missing. Lots of panic phone calls to the lawyers and MD who were just about to close the deal. CAA had issued a Certificate of Airworthiness at import which they shouldn't have but now it was G-reg'd it no longer mattered. The aircraft was a very nice well maintained example so we weren't worried about it.
My wife always used to love telling people "he buys helicopters" when they enquired what I did for a living....think it may even be on my daughter's birth certificate from that time.
Speed 3 said:
Maintenance costs per hour and total costs per seat-mile on rotary are insane compared to fixed wing. S-92 (18 seats) is more expensive than a 737 (180 seats) by almost every measure apart from total block hour fuel. It blew my mind when I did a stint in running transport rotary after airlines. The AW101 was another level more insane operating cost than the S-92 when we looked briefly at it for SAR.
Someone early in my career said "don't worry about the big numbers, they're just more zeros but the same logic" - as I was staring at an invoice for the purchase of a 747-400 ($140M or thereabouts).....
Instrument ratings were interesting, in my time at that operator (before the OP's arrival) we had the one and only UK CAA certified single engined helicopter for IFR training - a heavily modified Agusta-Bell 206 Jet Ranger. We had to retire it and the cheapest option was to buy a training school that had a Twin Squirrel AS355 and Sims equipped for the task. One of my most memorable missions - got a call to say we were buying the training school and casually enquired as to "anyone inspected the aircraft ?" When the answer was no I had to do a hasty trip to another part of the UK only to discover half the records for the aircraft from before it was imported to the UK were missing. Lots of panic phone calls to the lawyers and MD who were just about to close the deal. CAA had issued a Certificate of Airworthiness at import which they shouldn't have but now it was G-reg'd it no longer mattered. The aircraft was a very nice well maintained example so we weren't worried about it.
My wife always used to love telling people "he buys helicopters" when they enquired what I did for a living....think it may even be on my daughter's birth certificate from that time.
Thanks - interesting post! I know more than a few pilots who did their IR on that 206, it was very fondly remembered. As you say helicopters are incredibly expensive to maintain compared to fixed wing…as an example we had a bird strike a few years back where the bird damaged a rotor blade. The rotor blade required removal and replacement along with ground/air testing to balance the blades (this is really important and normally involves adding small weights to various parts of the blades). I was told the whole exercise cost in the low hundred of thousands of pounds Someone early in my career said "don't worry about the big numbers, they're just more zeros but the same logic" - as I was staring at an invoice for the purchase of a 747-400 ($140M or thereabouts).....
Instrument ratings were interesting, in my time at that operator (before the OP's arrival) we had the one and only UK CAA certified single engined helicopter for IFR training - a heavily modified Agusta-Bell 206 Jet Ranger. We had to retire it and the cheapest option was to buy a training school that had a Twin Squirrel AS355 and Sims equipped for the task. One of my most memorable missions - got a call to say we were buying the training school and casually enquired as to "anyone inspected the aircraft ?" When the answer was no I had to do a hasty trip to another part of the UK only to discover half the records for the aircraft from before it was imported to the UK were missing. Lots of panic phone calls to the lawyers and MD who were just about to close the deal. CAA had issued a Certificate of Airworthiness at import which they shouldn't have but now it was G-reg'd it no longer mattered. The aircraft was a very nice well maintained example so we weren't worried about it.
My wife always used to love telling people "he buys helicopters" when they enquired what I did for a living....think it may even be on my daughter's birth certificate from that time.
Siko said:
Thanks - interesting post! I know more than a few pilots who did their IR on that 206, it was very fondly remembered. As you say helicopters are incredibly expensive to maintain compared to fixed wing…as an example we had a bird strike a few years back where the bird damaged a rotor blade. The rotor blade required removal and replacement along with ground/air testing to balance the blades (this is really important and normally involves adding small weights to various parts of the blades). I was told the whole exercise cost in the low hundred of thousands of pounds
In my last role there I was the central budget holder for maintenance for the Eastern Hemisphere. We collected all the bills for the whole fleet and recharged a standardised hourly to all the operating companies by type. IIRC the S92 was running about $1200/hr based around 1300 flight hours per year. Think my overall budget was about £80M/year when I left in 2009. Engines, drivetrain and blades were the main costs. Lightning strikes and overtorques could get very costly. Biggest bill I had was for a G check on a 332L SuperPuma that had been operating SAR in the Solomon Islands for years. It was practically remanufactured in Malaysia by Eurocopter and took 9 months. North of €5M IIRC, we would have scrapped the aircraft had we known that at the start. Trips to KL to see how it was going were fun tho'. Siko said:
The_Doc said:
When out on the pull with my brother, he being commercial helicopter pilot.
To a nice girl or girls in a venue.
Me: "you'd like my brother over there he's a surgeon. Nerves of steel."
They turn to him.
Him. " Ha, what a joke, he's the surgeon, I'm a helicopter pilot"
It's worked once and once only.
To a nice girl or girls in a venue.
Me: "you'd like my brother over there he's a surgeon. Nerves of steel."
They turn to him.
Him. " Ha, what a joke, he's the surgeon, I'm a helicopter pilot"
It's worked once and once only.
I have a mate who is a surgeon and I can confirm surgeons are way more popular with the opposite sex than a lowly pilot 
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