Ask a helicopter pilot anything

[normalbloke]

Siko said:

Dr Jekyll said:

What's the drill if the tail rotor fails?

Pretty much the same drill as if the Jesus nut goes

However it can be done and we do train for it a lot (in the Simulator of course) in the hover, cut the throttles and land....it's pretty much ok if you get the throttles off before it spins too much probably within 45 degrees or so. If you are slow to get them off through 90 degrees then the aircraft builds up rotational speed very quickly and even cutting the throttles at this stage will almost certainly result in a crash.

In forward flight it's not quite as bad, because of aerodynamic effects on the tail boom. For my helicopter you have to go into autorotation as quickly as possible by lowering the collective lever, confirm it has failed rather than is fixed (the S92 has a spring that can hold the TR to a fixed pitch) which you do by briefly raising the lever and seeing if you have any control, assuming it has failed you close the engines down and conduct an autorotative landing.

Pretty much the worst place for it to happen is from a high hover or late on approach/shortly after takeoff. Sadly the Leicester City chairman who was killed when his helicopter lost the TR was in 2 of those conditions taking off and unsurprisingly it was unsurvivable. There are lots of varieties of failures you can have (if you're lucky ) and diagnosing exactly what has happened quickly is incredibly difficult...

To be fair the Leicester incident wasn’t a loss of tailrotor, it went full hard over (in my understanding) Not being a smartass. I don’t think there was any input that could have changed the outcome. I’ve got a bit of experience in rotary wing, but am really enjoying this thread. Thanks for your input.

[The_Doc]

Siko said:

The_Doc said:

What would you suggest *currently* ie in this 2022 market , as the next good career move for a CPL(H) pilot, with about 2000 hours on Robinsons, Instrument and Instructor rated.

Is there an obvious next step/job....

I think a ME/IR would get you an offshore/corporate job tomorrow. PM me if you need any advice, but Brexit has vastly reduced the quantity of CVs we used to get. A good mate is head of training at one of our rivals and he said they struggle to get pilots through the door with a UK CPL H/ME IR and right to work etc. I see jobs advertised on a regular basis and it is turning into a sellers market. The offshore world isn't for everyone and Aberdeen isn't either, but most companies offer some form of commuting roster (one company in Aberdeen only has a 14/14 commuting roster!) and even though you would probably not be suitable for a Police/HEMS role (no NVG etc) those jobs come up regularly and suck pilots away from offshore or corporate who want a bit of fun. We've just lost two copilots to a corporate job in the ME, sit around in a 5 star hotel the sit on a super yacht and do a little bit of flying every now and then, go back to the hotel and off shift home for a few weeks. Given the issues with energy supply that the UK is slowly working out need addressing pronto, the offshore world, in my opinion will swiftly turned around from the SNP/Greens target #1 to a necessary evil. I am not going to go out and say it will be a boom ffshore, but I think things are changing for the better as even the most hardcore are realising we have our own energy supply readily avialable.....

That's very useful. thank you for the insight.
It's not me, its my brother. - He's the glamourous one in the family,
although my *other* brother is a Director here: https://www.edmiston.com/ and also deals with helicopter things, they sponsor the London Heliport. https://www.londonheliport.co.uk/

[Siko]

Earl of Hazzard said:

If you could have a go in any chopper, which one would it be? Mine would be the Mi24 Hind -although I can't fly helicopters so I imagine that it wouldn't end (or even start) very well.

Have you ever shouted "get to the choppa" in an Arnie accent

Can you 'do stunts' in choppers? Like - if given the opportunity- would you do stunt flying for a film?

Good call on the Hind....a few mates have flown them as part of an exchange. It's a beast but comparing it to something like an Apache is a bit like comparing a Transit Van to a 5 series estate. I think I would love to fly something like the KA50 Hokum - no tail rotor which allows you to do some wacky flight manoevres and ejection seats too if it all goes wrong - what's not to like?!

I have never shouted "get to the choppa" but I will almost certainly do so from now on

I used to do a flying display in one of my military helicopters which involved a manoevre a bit like a "split s" but not as extreme, kind of a very big wingover all flown visually judged. I know someone who has looped and barrel rolled one of my military helicopters (a few years before I joined the military) but it is a really bad idea in most helicopters and overstresses heaps of things - I know the Red Bull guy does it but that's a special aircraft - just don't go there it's a recipe for insta-death I've done it for fun in the Simulator but whether it would be the same in real life I am not prepared to investigate...

[Siko]

normalbloke said:

To be fair the Leicester incident wasn’t a loss of tailrotor, it went full hard over (in my understanding) Not being a smartass. I don’t think there was any input that could have changed the outcome. I’ve got a bit of experience in rotary wing, but am really enjoying this thread. Thanks for your input.

Yeah you're right - I've not seen the report yet (not sure it's out?) but got the gist of it. Horrible way to go anyhow. Thanks for the vote of confidence

[Siko]

davidexige said:

That’s a bit strange, I did see your original reply but somehow my question was posted again.
It’s a shame we don’t fly with you guys anymore, since we switched I’ve not had one flight on time yet, in fact the running joke at the moment is to add an extra day to the trip to take into account the inevitable delay

Edited by davidexige on Wednesday 30th March 16:22

Sorry to hear that and hope to see you guys again in the future

[Mercdriver]

Have you read “chickenhawk”? Best book on helicopter flying I ever read. Amazed at skills they developed to remain alive.

If you have read it what is your opinion?

[geeks]

Siko said:

geeks said:

What's been your favourite "watch this!" moment that you would be willing to admit to on the internet?

Did you do some prior training on fixed wing? A friend is an ex-Navy pilot and learned to fly in a Chipmunk before they let him loose on whirly things.

Heaps of those moments, but probably the only safe one I can explain was 8 helicopters going into Spadeadam range at ultra low level all in a big stream. The leader took us over a gap in some woods and we simultaneously noticed it was a viewpoint chock full of people, without a word on the radio all 8 of us closed into close formation and thundered over together almost as one. Sounds crap but it was like some crazy ESP where we all knew exactly what we had to do....must have looked awesome...for a helicopter

I flew the Firefly as part of my initial training and was sent direct to helicopters (I volunteered to be honest, which almost nobody did in those days...in fact I was told to unvolunteer, put jets down as first choice on my wishlist and was then sent helicopters anyway...explain that one ). Before I retired I flew air cadets at an Air Experience Flight on the Grob Tutor, which was great fun. Having not flown fixed-wing in 14 years I got a massive 2hrs with an instructor and was sent solo...luckily I remembered not to hover

Superb thank you! As an aside I did AEF with the Air Cadets one flight in a Chipmunk before they sent us up in Bulldogs which were replaced by the Grob but I had left by then and had my dreams of being a (fast jet) pilot shattered by a diagnosis of a mild spine deformation, later learned I could have gone and flown choppers but thems the breaks! Still have an ache to fly again and will now covid is clearing off and the house move is pretty much complete.

[Siko]

The_Doc said:

That's very useful. thank you for the insight.
It's not me, its my brother. - He's the glamourous one in the family,
although my *other* brother is a Director here: https://www.edmiston.com/ and also deals with helicopter things, they sponsor the London Heliport. https://www.londonheliport.co.uk/

Wow - looks like he's doing ok there indeed! If he wants to go further as a professional pilot he does need to get his ME/IR though (if he hasn't got one) and jobs would open up if he wants them. Sadly 2000 VFR hrs in an R22 (no offence to him) don't count for a huge amount more than 200 hrs when going for an IFR job such as offshore or Corporate. I have worked with 2000hr R22 guys and they are brilliant hands-on pilots but you do very little of that in a modern helicopter.

[normalbloke]

What been your favourite civilian role, out of your very varied experience? In my experience with pilots, the roles I thought would be interesting for them, have often turned out to be quite the opposite. ie Police roles, especially now it’s all under the ‘expert’ guidance of NPAS and West York’s HR!

[Siko]

Mercdriver said:

Have you read “chickenhawk”? Best book on helicopter flying I ever read. Amazed at skills they developed to remain alive.

If you have read it what is your opinion?

Mandatory reading going through flying training as a helicopter pilot I would edge "Low Level Hell" marginally ahead of it though and am just listening to "To the Limit" which is also outstanding and on a par with Chickenhawk. All Vietnam helicopter books.

[ecsrobin]

Siko said:

Good call on the Hind....a few mates have flown them as part of an exchange. It's a beast but comparing it to something like an Apache is a bit like comparing a Transit Van to a 5 series estate. I think I would love to fly something like the KA50 Hokum - no tail rotor which allows you to do some wacky flight manoevres and ejection seats too if it all goes wrong - what's not to like?!

I have never shouted "get to the choppa" but I will almost certainly do so from now on

I used to do a flying display in one of my military helicopters which involved a manoevre a bit like a "split s" but not as extreme, kind of a very big wingover all flown visually judged. I know someone who has looped and barrel rolled one of my military helicopters (a few years before I joined the military) but it is a really bad idea in most helicopters and overstresses heaps of things - I know the Red Bull guy does it but that's a special aircraft - just don't go there it's a recipe for insta-death I've done it for fun in the Simulator but whether it would be the same in real life I am not prepared to investigate...

The Dutch loop the apache as they don’t have the longbow fire control radar and of course fire flares at the same time to add to the entertainment.

[Siko]

geeks said:

Superb thank you! As an aside I did AEF with the Air Cadets one flight in a Chipmunk before they sent us up in Bulldogs which were replaced by the Grob but I had left by then and had my dreams of being a (fast jet) pilot shattered by a diagnosis of a mild spine deformation, later learned I could have gone and flown choppers but thems the breaks! Still have an ache to fly again and will now covid is clearing off and the house move is pretty much complete.

Sorry to hear about your spine Yeah I first flew Chippies "Jump john, jump!" as an air cadet, funnily enough with the same AEF I flew with later as a staff pilot. Sadly you probably wouldn't have been allowed to fly anything with your deformation (unless it has changed since I left), the rules when I was in were that you had to pass both the medical and the assessment for single-seat fast jets prior to be accepted. Anything that deteriorated after joining was fine but on joining you had to be like some super cyborg....however day 1 if anything happened it was ok as long as a medical board judge you fit to fly. that's why you have some pilots in the military flying with all sorts of ailments and issues that they would never have been allowed to join with.

Nothing to stop you getting our Class 1 medical and going down the civilian route - there are some real fun jobs in the civilian world and avenues into warbirds, aerobatics, police, HEMS etc that are huge fun without needing you to be in the military. Good luck.

[williamp]

Is there much of a difference between the military and civilian helicopters?

"Choppers". No, right?

[Siko]

normalbloke said:

What been your favourite civilian role, out of your very varied experience? In my experience with pilots, the roles I thought would be interesting for them, have often turned out to be quite the opposite. ie Police roles, especially now it’s all under the ‘expert’ guidance of NPAS and West York’s HR!

Hi mate I've only done offshore in the civilian world and really enjoy it....one of those jobs that looks crap but is actually really satisfying with great Ts&Cs. I swore blind I would never go offshore after leaving the military (who wants to wear a rubber suit for a living, flogging around the North Sea in the worst weather known to man and living in the granite city?), but having done it for 9 years I don't live in Aberdeen, the rubber suits are very fetching thank you and pretty comfortable too

[Siko]

ecsrobin said:

The Dutch loop the apache as they don’t have the longbow fire control radar and of course fire flares at the same time to add to the entertainment.

Yes you're right and the Army Air Corps Lynx used to loop aswell. I think it tends to be aircraft with a rigid rotor head that can do it (Lynx and the red bull one) although the Apache's isn't, I think it's an articulated head. I must admit I don't know how they get away with it on the Apache, but I know in general it isn't good for them and I don't want to loop ANY helicopter

[Siko]

williamp said:

Is there much of a difference between the military and civilian helicopters?

"Choppers". No, right?

Depends what you mean, lots of military and civilian helicopters are the same..ish. The Chinook is used in the civilian world, my S92 is used in the military etc. We don't tend to call them "choppers" as we are a bit sniffy about it in the helicopter world...no idea why, but calling a helicopter a "chopper" in front of a real helicopter pilot is akin to meeting your future father in-law and telling him about your plans to introduce his daughter to your gentleman sausage.

But I don't mind, call it whenever you want....rotating death banana etc

[normalbloke]

Siko said:

ecsrobin said:

The Dutch loop the apache as they don’t have the longbow fire control radar and of course fire flares at the same time to add to the entertainment.

Yes you're right and the Army Air Corps Lynx used to loop aswell. I think it tends to be aircraft with a rigid rotor head that can do it (Lynx and the red bull one) although the Apache's isn't, I think it's an articulated head. I must admit I don't know how they get away with it on the Apache, but I know in general it isn't good for them and I don't want to loop ANY helicopter

The Bolkow is very well suited to it! I hear the new Wildcat won’t ever get the OK to do it, which is a shame! Most of my time (non pilot) has been in a Jetranger, so you only have to think about lowering the collective, punting the cyclic forward before the tail boom comes off!

[texaxile]

If you went upside down, would you and your co pilot fall out, or would you still be friends?.

Also:

There have been a few tragic accidents due to Helo's hitting power lines, if flying low in unknown terrain is it a serious hazard or something that you have made yourself aware of prior?.

And how many cojones does one need for this job?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIrcRu-dsV0&ab...

Edited by texaxile on Wednesday 30th March 17:08

Edited by texaxile on Wednesday 30th March 17:09

[ecsrobin]

Siko said:

Yes you're right and the Army Air Corps Lynx used to loop aswell. I think it tends to be aircraft with a rigid rotor head that can do it (Lynx and the red bull one) although the Apache's isn't, I think it's an articulated head. I must admit I don't know how they get away with it on the Apache, but I know in general it isn't good for them and I don't want to loop ANY helicopter

Pretty sure the AAC Lynx used to flip from the hover.

[Siko]

normalbloke said:

The Bolkow is very well suited to it! I hear the new Wildcat won’t ever get the OK to do it, which is a shame! Most of my time (non pilot) has been in a Jetranger, so you only have to think about lowering the collective, punting the cyclic forward before the tail boom comes off!

Yeah that is bloody lethal! Funny but the most difficult to fly and potentially lethal helicopters are strangely enough, the simple trainer ones you fly as a newbie. A mate of mine with thousands of hours in big helicopters (mainly Chinook) wanted to get his PPL H and paid for a trial lesson in a jet ranger and brought his girlfriend along to show off basically. He told me he couldn't even hover it for the first few minutes and had to give control to the 500hr flying instructor....it was just so twitchy compared to his Chinook and very embarrassing apparently