Bill's boating paradox...
Discussion
Badda said:
pequod said:
I realise it's well above your initial budget (we are well known on here for helping you with the man-maths!) but a Merry Fisher such as this one would be a better bet and they have a good reputation for a reason...
https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/boat/2010-jean...
I know it's an ex fishing boat (most will be at this price point) but it does everything you want and has that all important cabin and a decent E-tec outboard by the look of it! I would rather have a boat that has been regularly used and maintained instead of something which might require a bit of money spent on servicing/refit having sat around unused and unloved for a few years.
P
Out of interest why have you suggested a Marlin version? These are more dedicated to fishing so less practical/more focused. https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/boat/2010-jean...
I know it's an ex fishing boat (most will be at this price point) but it does everything you want and has that all important cabin and a decent E-tec outboard by the look of it! I would rather have a boat that has been regularly used and maintained instead of something which might require a bit of money spent on servicing/refit having sat around unused and unloved for a few years.
P
Edited by pequod on Thursday 5th May 14:29
I posted that as an example of the type rather than to promote that particular boat however, as the OP is, by his own admission, on a tight budget comprises may be needed. An equivalent non Marlin MF would probably be north of £20k but I'm not the one who needs to spend time doing the research!
Just thinking the thread title's wrong. This should be my boating moon on a stick thread! 
Anyway, wondering what people's thoughts are if I ditch the skiing. (But maybe replace the cocking about element with a SIB/cat?)
Is something with a cabin and half decent cruising speed (I don't know what's realistic TBH...) a prospect?
Anyway, wondering what people's thoughts are if I ditch the skiing. (But maybe replace the cocking about element with a SIB/cat?)
Is something with a cabin and half decent cruising speed (I don't know what's realistic TBH...) a prospect?
Bill said:
Is something with a cabin and half decent cruising speed (I don't know what's realistic TBH...) a prospect?
Apols if you already said it, but what is the most £ you'd feel comfortable with tied up in a boat? You need a budget.You may also find that the way you actually use the boat is not the same as how you thought you'd use it - but you don't know that yet
Simpo Two said:
Apols if you already said it, but what is the most £ you'd feel comfortable with tied up in a boat? You need a budget.
That's the issue, I'm trying to get a feel for what's realistic and where the compromises come. I've been eyeing up <£10k boats (<£5k mostly...) but until recently we've had high teens tied up in a motorhome. I can't see us ever going above £20k.Simpo Two said:
You may also find that the way you actually use the boat is not the same as how you thought you'd use it - but you don't know that yet
My concern is we hardly use it at all! Interesting that you had a motorhome. My boating knowledge is inland (rivers and canals) where boats are essentially floating motorhomes. Have you considered a boat as a motorhome replacement, or do you want a zippy little rubber thing where the first wave bounces your sandwiches overboard?
Maybe the best thing is to start with £5K, see how you get on and how you use it, then you can upgrade (or not) to a £10K or even £20K one next time.
Maybe the best thing is to start with £5K, see how you get on and how you use it, then you can upgrade (or not) to a £10K or even £20K one next time.
Bill said:
To save distracting the shoestring sailor thread...
We're near Swanage and figure it's mad living here and not having a boat.
We're after something to take kids & kayaks/paddle boards further afield to access more interesting areas. For example, we can get to Old Harry's rocks from Swanage or Studland but it's a slog with a pair of double kayaks and towing one more. Kimmeridge is fine, if a bit limited but Lulworth is a slog getting everything to the water, Worbarrow is a mission and a half!
And we'd like to tow a ringo, and even a skier... Want a cabin (cos girls...) And he icing on the cake is that SWMBO doesn't want noisy!
Plus we're both tight and I'm wary of ending up with a money pit.
Experience wise we do a fair bit of sea kayaking, I have done a sailing day skipper ticket but not used it and holidays as a kid involved clueless use of small boats in Cornwall a fair bit. I plan to do PB2 and my VHF ticket this year.
1) all boats are money pits.We're near Swanage and figure it's mad living here and not having a boat.
We're after something to take kids & kayaks/paddle boards further afield to access more interesting areas. For example, we can get to Old Harry's rocks from Swanage or Studland but it's a slog with a pair of double kayaks and towing one more. Kimmeridge is fine, if a bit limited but Lulworth is a slog getting everything to the water, Worbarrow is a mission and a half!
And we'd like to tow a ringo, and even a skier... Want a cabin (cos girls...) And he icing on the cake is that SWMBO doesn't want noisy!
Plus we're both tight and I'm wary of ending up with a money pit.
Experience wise we do a fair bit of sea kayaking, I have done a sailing day skipper ticket but not used it and holidays as a kid involved clueless use of small boats in Cornwall a fair bit. I plan to do PB2 and my VHF ticket this year.
Forget the alleged lack of depreciation, cost of ownership tends to be high.
Storage, trailer parking, insurance, hardware, repairs, all have 'marine tax' in the price.
2) To get value, you have to use it. A lot.
3) The money that gets eaten by boats is dwarfed by the time they take up. Launching a boat takes time, recovering and putting it away takes time. There are always things to do which take time. Getting anywhere by boat takes time.
4) Fuel economy is measured in gallons per hour and that can make you resent the hours. You have to have the right mindset to enjoy burning £50 of fuel going around in circles for a few hours, let alone £250. But most people end up looking back at the last year thinking fuel wasn't the half of it, we didn't use it much and the fuel was dwarfed by fixed costs.
OutInTheShed said:
1) all boats are money pits.
Forget the alleged lack of depreciation, cost of ownership tends to be high.
Storage, trailer parking, insurance, hardware, repairs, all have 'marine tax' in the price.
2) To get value, you have to use it. A lot.
3) The money that gets eaten by boats is dwarfed by the time they take up. Launching a boat takes time, recovering and putting it away takes time. There are always things to do which take time. Getting anywhere by boat takes time.
4) Fuel economy is measured in gallons per hour and that can make you resent the hours. You have to have the right mindset to enjoy burning £50 of fuel going around in circles for a few hours, let alone £250. But most people end up looking back at the last year thinking fuel wasn't the half of it, we didn't use it much and the fuel was dwarfed by fixed costs.
The downsides of cost can be associated with other activities such as motorhome/caravan ownership and the same rule applies, that they are expensive luxuries if you don't regularly use them.Forget the alleged lack of depreciation, cost of ownership tends to be high.
Storage, trailer parking, insurance, hardware, repairs, all have 'marine tax' in the price.
2) To get value, you have to use it. A lot.
3) The money that gets eaten by boats is dwarfed by the time they take up. Launching a boat takes time, recovering and putting it away takes time. There are always things to do which take time. Getting anywhere by boat takes time.
4) Fuel economy is measured in gallons per hour and that can make you resent the hours. You have to have the right mindset to enjoy burning £50 of fuel going around in circles for a few hours, let alone £250. But most people end up looking back at the last year thinking fuel wasn't the half of it, we didn't use it much and the fuel was dwarfed by fixed costs.
How many folk in this place own expensive classic cars which are only used on occasion yet need specialist maintenance to keep them running and, possibly, costly secure parking in which they are cosseted?
Not forgetting, the cost of hiring, if you have the necessary qualifications, can get pretty expensive and is subject to availability at a moment's notice.
You are correct though, if you don't use it enough it's not something worth considering.
OutInTheShed said:
1) all boats are money pits.
Forget the alleged lack of depreciation, cost of ownership tends to be high.
Storage, trailer parking, insurance, hardware, repairs, all have 'marine tax' in the price.
3) The money that gets eaten by boats is dwarfed by the time they take up.
4) Fuel economy is measured in gallons per hour and that can make you resent the hours. You have to have the right mindset to enjoy burning £50 of fuel going around in circles for a few hours, let alone £250.
Well that's that idea shot down then. Best stay at home OP.Forget the alleged lack of depreciation, cost of ownership tends to be high.
Storage, trailer parking, insurance, hardware, repairs, all have 'marine tax' in the price.
3) The money that gets eaten by boats is dwarfed by the time they take up.
4) Fuel economy is measured in gallons per hour and that can make you resent the hours. You have to have the right mindset to enjoy burning £50 of fuel going around in circles for a few hours, let alone £250.
Simpo Two said:
Interesting that you had a motorhome. My boating knowledge is inland (rivers and canals) where boats are essentially floating motorhomes. Have you considered a boat as a motorhome replacement, or do you want a zippy little rubber thing where the first wave bounces your sandwiches overboard?
Maybe the best thing is to start with £5K, see how you get on and how you use it, then you can upgrade (or not) to a £10K or even £20K one next time.
I know we can't afford a boat as a MH equivalent! We got rid of it because the kids have got big (and smelly). Definitely looking at day boats.Maybe the best thing is to start with £5K, see how you get on and how you use it, then you can upgrade (or not) to a £10K or even £20K one next time.
Bill said:
I know we can't afford a boat as a MH equivalent! We got rid of it because the kids have got big (and smelly). Definitely looking at day boats.
You can get a dory or similar for a couple of thousand quid with a reasonable 4 stroke outboard.That's about the minimum to take 2 adults, 2 kids and the odd paddleboard or whatever.
You'll need somewhere to store it, an adequate car to pull it up whatever slipway you use.
My sailing club runs 15ft RIBs with 40HP motors, these are fairly economical pottering around.
Towing skiers needs more power. Big 4stroke motors are expensive ad heavy. big 2 stroke motors are old, often unreliable and VERy thirsty, even at low speed.
A light 15ft Dory will go well with a 40HP motor.
When you go bigger or heavier by adding cabin space etc, the need for more power kicks in and costs escalate.
Also it gets difficult for a couple to launch the boat and park the car and trailer except at the ideal slipway.
You can soon get to the point where it's more effective to keep the boat on a mooring.
Then the boat is a serious financial commitment, has to be a major part of your lifestyle.
All my boats currently have sails, but I know a lot of people with all sorts of boats, RIBs, ski boats, Sunseeker types, racing yachts.
Some people make part ownership work well.
Just chiming in here with another thought.....
If the OP wants a cuddy, something he can tow and tow with, be fairly comfortable and not kill himself financially, what about a Fletcher cuddy, I think the GTS is the one I'm thinking about. This is a link to an older style version but you get my drift?
https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/boat/2000-flet...
Sure they did something about 19' and the Fletcher is fine at sea.
If the family hate the thing, it'll always sell and with the right engine it'd do everything needed. Certainly a bit big for the inboard 3.0 option but the 4.3 is fine. If outboard equipped then 130plus.
If the OP wants a cuddy, something he can tow and tow with, be fairly comfortable and not kill himself financially, what about a Fletcher cuddy, I think the GTS is the one I'm thinking about. This is a link to an older style version but you get my drift?
https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/boat/2000-flet...
Sure they did something about 19' and the Fletcher is fine at sea.
If the family hate the thing, it'll always sell and with the right engine it'd do everything needed. Certainly a bit big for the inboard 3.0 option but the 4.3 is fine. If outboard equipped then 130plus.
At the price, I think it'd be a challenge to get a boat with anything like a "cabin" that you'd want to be in whilst underway.
The best I reckon you could get would be a fisher thing where you can put your sandwiches, couple of bags etc.
But at the same time - a small boat in a bit of a swell is MISERABLE to be inside. Vomit everywhere.
So I think I would stand by my original proposal with an open decked layout.
If it's warm and sunny, at 20mph it'll feel exhilarating and fast while being very safe too. The odd bit of splashiness would be "fun". And if it's not warm and sunny - not going boating is probably the right answer.
The best I reckon you could get would be a fisher thing where you can put your sandwiches, couple of bags etc.
But at the same time - a small boat in a bit of a swell is MISERABLE to be inside. Vomit everywhere.
So I think I would stand by my original proposal with an open decked layout.
If it's warm and sunny, at 20mph it'll feel exhilarating and fast while being very safe too. The odd bit of splashiness would be "fun". And if it's not warm and sunny - not going boating is probably the right answer.
LFB531 said:
Just chiming in here with another thought.....
If the OP wants a cuddy, something he can tow and tow with, be fairly comfortable and not kill himself financially, what about a Fletcher cuddy, I think the GTS is the one I'm thinking about. This is a link to an older style version but you get my drift?
https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/boat/2000-flet...
Sure they did something about 19' and the Fletcher is fine at sea.
If the family hate the thing, it'll always sell and with the right engine it'd do everything needed. Certainly a bit big for the inboard 3.0 option but the 4.3 is fine. If outboard equipped then 130plus.
That will do about 16 gallons an hour at maybe 40knots.If the OP wants a cuddy, something he can tow and tow with, be fairly comfortable and not kill himself financially, what about a Fletcher cuddy, I think the GTS is the one I'm thinking about. This is a link to an older style version but you get my drift?
https://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/boat/2000-flet...
Sure they did something about 19' and the Fletcher is fine at sea.
If the family hate the thing, it'll always sell and with the right engine it'd do everything needed. Certainly a bit big for the inboard 3.0 option but the 4.3 is fine. If outboard equipped then 130plus.
And you'll want a Landy or something to tow it with?
I have a mate with something a bit bigger, but diesel. Nice cosy accommodation for two. He mostly uses it fairly locally so fuel consumption isn't a killer. I've been aboard for a beer a few times, it's nicer than being with the grockles in the seaside pubs. Using it as overnight works out cheaper than airbnb if you don't go too far!
It's not my kind of boating, but some love it.
My boat takes hours to get where he can go in 20 minutes, but my fuel cost is negligible and I enjoy sailing.
The actual thrills of 'powerboating' are generally better the smaller the boat IMHO.
Arnold Cunningham said:
At the price, I think it'd be a challenge to get a boat with anything like a "cabin" that you'd want to be in whilst underway.
The best I reckon you could get would be a fisher thing where you can put your sandwiches, couple of bags etc.
But at the same time - a small boat in a bit of a swell is MISERABLE to be inside. Vomit everywhere.
So I think I would stand by my original proposal with an open decked layout.
If it's warm and sunny, at 20mph it'll feel exhilarating and fast while being very safe too. The odd bit of splashiness would be "fun". And if it's not warm and sunny - not going boating is probably the right answer.
Reading the OP's opening gambit, his requirement is to have a cuddy/small cabin to keep his wife and kids happy, also to be able to tow/carry onboard 2 sea kayaks and paddleboard. I'm not sure a dory fits that brief and I'm also unsure 'towing' kayaks/boards at 20 kts is doable either without the risk of them flipping over in any kind of seaway and crosswind. Bearing in mind his target location to explore is on the exposed, windward side of the Isle of Purbeck the chances of meeting a fresh breeze and associated sea state is quite high, I imagine?The best I reckon you could get would be a fisher thing where you can put your sandwiches, couple of bags etc.
But at the same time - a small boat in a bit of a swell is MISERABLE to be inside. Vomit everywhere.
So I think I would stand by my original proposal with an open decked layout.
If it's warm and sunny, at 20mph it'll feel exhilarating and fast while being very safe too. The odd bit of splashiness would be "fun". And if it's not warm and sunny - not going boating is probably the right answer.
The roof of, say, a MF could possibly carry kayaks/boards (certainly on the bigger ones) or possibly strap them across the aft end of the cockpit, whilst giving it some beans to get there and back without having to drag all the toys behind the boat. It's certainly asking a lot of a small sub 20' boat to carry 4 up plus all that kit any distance in open water but it may be possible? Are the kayaks/boards inflatable types?? A 12V air pump plugged into a 12V socket would make inflating them a lot easier/quicker once you get to wherever it is you're going and makes storage a lot simpler.
Lots to consider for the OP....
OutInTheShed said:
1) all boats are money pits.
Forget the alleged lack of depreciation, cost of ownership tends to be high.
Storage, trailer parking, insurance, hardware, repairs, all have 'marine tax' in the price.
2) To get value, you have to use it. A lot.
3) The money that gets eaten by boats is dwarfed by the time they take up. Launching a boat takes time, recovering and putting it away takes time. There are always things to do which take time. Getting anywhere by boat takes time.
4) Fuel economy is measured in gallons per hour and that can make you resent the hours. You have to have the right mindset to enjoy burning £50 of fuel going around in circles for a few hours, let alone £250. But most people end up looking back at the last year thinking fuel wasn't the half of it, we didn't use it much and the fuel was dwarfed by fixed costs.
Others may not be as money and time poor as you. Forget the alleged lack of depreciation, cost of ownership tends to be high.
Storage, trailer parking, insurance, hardware, repairs, all have 'marine tax' in the price.
2) To get value, you have to use it. A lot.
3) The money that gets eaten by boats is dwarfed by the time they take up. Launching a boat takes time, recovering and putting it away takes time. There are always things to do which take time. Getting anywhere by boat takes time.
4) Fuel economy is measured in gallons per hour and that can make you resent the hours. You have to have the right mindset to enjoy burning £50 of fuel going around in circles for a few hours, let alone £250. But most people end up looking back at the last year thinking fuel wasn't the half of it, we didn't use it much and the fuel was dwarfed by fixed costs.
Our annual cost of boating is similar to a family holiday. We have lots of mini holidays on it plus days out so easy to ‘justify’ if you have to see it that way.
They are, apart from 1 that I expect we'd do without.Arnold Cunningham said:
I don't mind those old fletchers. Except 40 knots would be fairly swift for it, I reckon. A nice cruise at 25 knots would be nice and a lot more fuel efficient.
Sorry, did I miss a need mentioned for the boat to do 40 knots somewhere? I very much doubt there are many options with a cabin at this sort of budget that'll do that safely and/or comfortably.Edited by LFB531 on Monday 9th May 16:09
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