One of the ultimate flight experiences?

[Eric Mc]

Neil Armstrong was a keen glider flying. Many pilots (even those who've flown X-15s and moon rockets) like the purity of gliding.

[Mercdriver]

It's called 'peacetime'; enjoy it while you can. How on earth does he put up with gliding - no engine and going round in circles all the time?


Unfortunately he was killed in glider towing accident, really sad hell of a nice guy.

There is more to gliding than going round in circles, you can cover long distances buy climbing in the thermals and diving to the next thermal. Flying in lenticular clouds is exciting flying at high speed along the bars of cloud or climbing to a high height, using oxygen if required means you can cover long distances.

I gave up gliding because of the time involved and got a PPL. Turn up, fly, sign cheque, leave. But I did enjoy the time I spent flying a glider just time restraints made me give it up.

[Simpo Two]

Eric Mc said:

Neil Armstrong was a keen glider flying. Many pilots (even those who've flown X-15s and moon rockets) like the purity of gliding.

Sure, but Armstrong didn't quit the Apollo program to do it.

Mercdriver said:

Unfortunately he was killed in glider towing accident, really sad hell of a nice guy.

It's sad to survive flying Lightnings, then lose it in a glider.

Mercdriver said:

There is more to gliding than going round in circles, you can cover long distances buy climbing in the thermals and diving to the next thermal. Flying in lenticular clouds is exciting flying at high speed along the bars of cloud or climbing to a high height, using oxygen if required means you can cover long distances.

Yes indeed, nothing wrong with gliding, I've done some. It just seems rather a career change for a fast jet pilot who must have known he wouldn't be shooting things down every day. EE Lightning - some bus!

[Mercdriver]

It's sad to survive flying Lightnings, then lose it in a glider.

He was killed in the tug towing the glider, glider pilot caught updraft and pulled tail of cub up causing it to dive into ground, burst into flames. Very sad.


Yes, he joined RAF to learn a trade as he was very skilled with his hands. RAF said no you are going to be a pilot, so he joined flew lightnings and hated it, bought himself out.

Bought new glider and trailer, kitted out trailer himself, workmanship was first class.

[aeropilot]

Dr Jekyll said:

andyA700 said:

DodgyGeezer said:

Eric Mc said:

The latest I heard was that the Lightnings were being made ready for passenger flights again.

that would be amazing!!!! That said, however, I sure I read somewhere that they had a fatality (plane disintegrated) on a flight and it transpired their maintenance was 'patchy' (hope I'm totally wrong!!)

One of them crashed during a display, the rear fin detached and the pilot was unable to eject, so a couple of key failures. Throwing an aircraft like that around, considering its age, must be a bit risky.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwNuOkdFKXY

The pilot reported a hydraulic failure, then an ejection failure. It transpired that the hydraulic maintenance hadn't been according to manufacturers specs and the ejection cartridges were past their use by date.

On the other hand, according to a report I read. Pictures of the display show a fire in the region of the hydraulics equipment before the failure, which had been known to happen in RAF service, and examination of the wreckage attributed the ejection failure to a mechanical failure preventing the cockpit canopy from jettisoning. The cartridges for ejecting the canopy appeared to have worked, but the seat cartridges were meant to be set off by the canopy departing.
So dodgy maintenance but perhaps not as directly responsible for the tragedy as first appeared

Also, the pilot on the day before the accident, despite being a qualified TP, was doing things with the aircraft on the ground, in 'putting on a show' that were strictly not in RAF OP's, and made some ex-RAF Lightning pilots wince. There is speculation that some of those actions may have contributed to the issues experienced in the following days fatal flight. There is also the view that they before flight inspections may also not have been carried out as per RAF OP's.
All very sad really, as ever, if you take liberties with such beasts they will have a habit of biting you badly.
Once Barry P left Thunder City, they lost the hands-on experience necessary to keep these safely in the air imho.
The Buccs were a different kettle of fish, as the SAAF operated them, so there was plenty of ex-SAAF Bucc ground crew around with the experience required.

[Eric Mc]

Simpo Two said:

Eric Mc said:

Neil Armstrong was a keen glider flying. Many pilots (even those who've flown X-15s and moon rockets) like the purity of gliding.

Sure, but Armstrong didn't quit the Apollo program to do it.

Mercdriver said:

Unfortunately he was killed in glider towing accident, really sad hell of a nice guy.

It's sad to survive flying Lightnings, then lose it in a glider.

Mercdriver said:

There is more to gliding than going round in circles, you can cover long distances buy climbing in the thermals and diving to the next thermal. Flying in lenticular clouds is exciting flying at high speed along the bars of cloud or climbing to a high height, using oxygen if required means you can cover long distances.

Yes indeed, nothing wrong with gliding, I've done some. It just seems rather a career change for a fast jet pilot who must have known he wouldn't be shooting things down every day. EE Lightning - some bus!

Armstrong did indeed take up gliding after he left NASA. Armstrong was first and foremost a pilot. He loved aeroplanes and flying and was keen to try his hand at anything. One of his favourite aeroplanes was the Piper Cub.

As for shooting down things every day in a Lightning - I don't think any pilot shot down anything with a Lightning in the planes entire career with the RAF - except maybe a drone on an exercise - and that was very rare.

I loved the Lightning - but it had its limitations too.

[aeropilot]

Mercdriver said:

Instructor at our gliding club flew them for RAF, hated it, bought himself out.

He must have been the only one! I suspect it was the RAF he hated, not the Lightning.

I've met and talked with many an ex-Lightning pilot, and not met one that didn't think it was anything but an amazing beast to fly. Very hard work, and very challenging to operate its archaic systems in a combat capacity, but an absolute delight to fly.

[aeropilot]

Eric Mc said:

The latest I heard was that the Lightnings were being made ready for passenger flights again.

Well, not Lightnings plural, as after T.5 (ex-XS451) crashed that only left one remaining two seater T.5 (ex-XS452, or the 'pink flamingo' as it was called when with 56 Sqn based in Cyprus)

You aren't not going to do any flight experiences in either of the two single seat F.6's that Thunder City had...

[Eric Mc]

Unless you happen to take one off the ground accidentally - as did indeed happen once.

[andyA700]

Eric Mc said:

Unless you happen to take one off the ground accidentally - as did indeed happen once.

Taffy Holden, the accidental pilot - incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4d7VKvG1z0

[aeropilot]

Eric Mc said:

Unless you happen to take one off the ground accidentally - as did indeed happen once.

Indeed it did.

And that very aircraft that 33MU commander Taff Holden managed to do a few circuits in before managing to land it, still exists, XM135 at IWM Duxford.
Taff Holden was just an engineer though, as he had gained his pilots wings with the RAF before going into the Engineering Wing, albeit learning on Tiger Moths and the Harvard 20 years earlier!!
If it hadn't been for those basic skills, acquired 20 years earlier he'd be dead as the ejection seat was inoperative, and in fact the canopy had also been removed at the time.

[Mercdriver]

[quote=aeropilot]

Well, not Lightnings plural, as after T.5 (ex-XS451) crashed that only left one remaining two seater T.5 (ex-XS452, or the 'pink flamingo' as it was called when with 56 Sqn based in Cyprus)

Much as I would love to experience the power of a frightening I can just see the scenario.

On holiday and decide to experience flying the lightening, fire in engine during flight and crashes.
Widow claims on holiday insurance and they refuse to pay out as considered dangerous sport, oops

[Xenobian]

You used to be able to do very nice MIG-29 flights in Russia. Expensive, but brilliant experience - https://migflug.com/flights-prices/fly-mig-29-in-r... albeit currently unavailable for obvious reasons.

The company MigFlug is Swiss and arrange special jet experiences around Europe, the US and Canada. They can also do the Zero G flight in the US, or you can go direct - https://www.airzerog.com/

[aeropilot]

Xenobian said:

You used to be able to do very nice MIG-29 flights in Russia.

Used to be to do edge of space flights out there in the MiG-31 as well.

[Xenobian]

aeropilot said:

Used to be to do edge of space flights out there in the MiG-31 as well.

If anyone knows if you can still do that sort of flight (anywhere), I'd be curious to hear....

[aeropilot]

Xenobian said:

aeropilot said:

Used to be to do edge of space flights out there in the MiG-31 as well.

If anyone knows if you can still do that sort of flight (anywhere), I'd be curious to hear....

There isn't anywhere else, Russia was the only place.

[ChemicalChaos]

aeropilot said:

Xenobian said:

aeropilot said:

Used to be to do edge of space flights out there in the MiG-31 as well.

If anyone knows if you can still do that sort of flight (anywhere), I'd be curious to hear....

There isn't anywhere else, Russia was the only place.

There are options slightly closer to home!

For my 30th birthday I was lucky enough to be treated by the family to a vintage flight experience, and I immediately eschewed the usual Spitfire options when I realised that the Vampire T.11 based at Coventry was available to book:






Some videos here but I can't work out how to embed them:

https://i.imgur.com/4CnI4eM.mp4

https://i.imgur.com/eryAeuD.mp4


On my flight I had some stick time in cross country flying and mild aerobatics, then handed back control for an experience of "airshow routine" type moves which had me feeling a teensy bit ill by the end of it!
It is a totally unforgettable experience, doing 400+mph in a plywood capsule at treetop level - and the sounds, smells and feel are all totally authentic. It's a very smooth, quiet cockpit compared to a normal light aircraft due to the jet engine as opposed to piston power, and it is unbeleivealby light and responsive on the controls.
The advantage of the Vampire is that due to the way it is lifed, you may as well use all of the performance all of the time - so they do! In contrast, a piston wardbird experience will often be using the minimum amount of engine power and manoeuvre G-force possible to maximse the fatigue life and thus operator profit.

Owner and pilot Mark is an absolutely top bloke and is an amazing "one man band" operation, extremely helpful and a proper enthusiast - operating the aircraft mostly from his own pocket for the love of it!
My 30 minute flight cost just under 3k which included the 800 litres(!!!) of Jet A1 we burned during it.

11/10 would recommend to everyone to try it whilst you can - especially given the current uncertainty over the future of the airfield operations at Coventry.

See here for more details:
https://vampireflight.co.uk/about/flying-the-vampi...

Edited by ChemicalChaos on Friday 27th May 12:41