How low can BBMF fly?
Discussion
aeropilot said:
Would be especially pointless contacting RAF Marham about a low flying Army helo, which may account for the 'we don't have anything up' comments as well...if poster was doing that, instead of MOD or contacting AAC at Wattisham.
I think I need to contact MOD and complain about the lack of low flying over my house
For the average person the will just associate military with a local base and call them. I think I need to contact MOD and complain about the lack of low flying over my house
Jake899 said:
My neighbour when I lived in darkest Cornwall has a English Electric Lightning in his garden
(he bought a job lot off the MOD when they retired, spent years fighting the FAA to let him fly them out of his hangar at Exeter, and in the end sold them to Mike at Thunder City in South Africa where they were flying until fairly recently)
Barry Pover.(he bought a job lot off the MOD when they retired, spent years fighting the FAA to let him fly them out of his hangar at Exeter, and in the end sold them to Mike at Thunder City in South Africa where they were flying until fairly recently)
But Barry never owned XR755 which is that aircraft. This aircraft has been in Cornwall since 1988, having last flown in RAF service in Dec 1987 when 5 Sqn disbanded.
The three and a bit Lightnings Barry owned at Exeter were two seat T.5 XS451 plus the two F.6's bought from BAe when the MOD ended the Tornado radar trials in 1993 (plus parts from F.6 XS428 that ended up on a pole at BAe Salmesbury)
Edited by aeropilot on Friday 27th May 13:57
Dr Jekyll said:
Someone who worked on the BBMF flight was quoted some years ago as saying the ultimate constraint is going to be getting appropriate AVGAS, but that might have been when we thought oil was running out shortly.
Yes, its the extent to which LL100 will continue to be refined and made available that will determine how long they will be able to keep flying, especially as the demand for LL100 drops with the GA market already moving away from it in the last decade or so.I will be surprised if they can go much past 2040 (which will be 100th anniversary of the BofB)
We're already seeing a slow down in restoration to flying condition of WW2 era warbird projects........because of the time it takes to do it vs. the known time frame left once completed to be able to fly them.
aeropilot said:
We're already seeing a slow down in restoration to flying condition of WW2 era warbird projects........because of the time it takes to do it vs. the known time frame left once completed to be able to fly them.
I would say the opposite is true - I have personally been involved in half a dozen restorations over the past couple of years.I’d be very surprised if BBMF had low level exemption for transits.
For info: Any aircraft can fly lower than 500 feet, so long as they don’t come within 500 feet of any person, vehicle, vessel, structure etc (take off / landing is the exception).
Displaying of aircraft at public events requires authorisation and testing, and each display will have its own set of rules regarding crowd lines and altitude ‘hard decks’ which has been touched on before, but I would imagine non-operational military aircraft transiting through ‘civilian’ airspace would have to comply with the same set of rules regarding low flight.
For info: Any aircraft can fly lower than 500 feet, so long as they don’t come within 500 feet of any person, vehicle, vessel, structure etc (take off / landing is the exception).
Displaying of aircraft at public events requires authorisation and testing, and each display will have its own set of rules regarding crowd lines and altitude ‘hard decks’ which has been touched on before, but I would imagine non-operational military aircraft transiting through ‘civilian’ airspace would have to comply with the same set of rules regarding low flight.
Mark V GTD said:
aeropilot said:
We're already seeing a slow down in restoration to flying condition of WW2 era warbird projects........because of the time it takes to do it vs. the known time frame left once completed to be able to fly them.
I would say the opposite is true - I have personally been involved in half a dozen restorations over the past couple of years.5150 said:
I’d be very surprised if BBMF had low level exemption for transits.
For info: Any aircraft can fly lower than 500 feet, so long as they don’t come within 500 feet of any person, vehicle, vessel, structure etc (take off / landing is the exception).
Displaying of aircraft at public events requires authorisation and testing, and each display will have its own set of rules regarding crowd lines and altitude ‘hard decks’ which has been touched on before, but I would imagine non-operational military aircraft transiting through ‘civilian’ airspace would have to comply with the same set of rules regarding low flight.
The Lancaster certainly for at not much above tree height on both Thursday and Friday across North Leicestershire!For info: Any aircraft can fly lower than 500 feet, so long as they don’t come within 500 feet of any person, vehicle, vessel, structure etc (take off / landing is the exception).
Displaying of aircraft at public events requires authorisation and testing, and each display will have its own set of rules regarding crowd lines and altitude ‘hard decks’ which has been touched on before, but I would imagine non-operational military aircraft transiting through ‘civilian’ airspace would have to comply with the same set of rules regarding low flight.
mcdjl said:
5150 said:
I’d be very surprised if BBMF had low level exemption for transits.
For info: Any aircraft can fly lower than 500 feet, so long as they don’t come within 500 feet of any person, vehicle, vessel, structure etc (take off / landing is the exception).
Displaying of aircraft at public events requires authorisation and testing, and each display will have its own set of rules regarding crowd lines and altitude ‘hard decks’ which has been touched on before, but I would imagine non-operational military aircraft transiting through ‘civilian’ airspace would have to comply with the same set of rules regarding low flight.
The Lancaster certainly for at not much above tree height on both Thursday and Friday across North Leicestershire!For info: Any aircraft can fly lower than 500 feet, so long as they don’t come within 500 feet of any person, vehicle, vessel, structure etc (take off / landing is the exception).
Displaying of aircraft at public events requires authorisation and testing, and each display will have its own set of rules regarding crowd lines and altitude ‘hard decks’ which has been touched on before, but I would imagine non-operational military aircraft transiting through ‘civilian’ airspace would have to comply with the same set of rules regarding low flight.
5150 said:
.....but I would imagine non-operational military aircraft transiting through ‘civilian’ airspace would have to comply with the same set of rules regarding low flight.
Not true. Any UK Military fixed wing aircraft transiting below 2000' agl is said to be in the UK Low Flying System (UKLFS), and if the crew are booked in, suitably qualified and authorised, they are therefore cleared down to 250' MSD (minimum separation distance from any person, vessel etc or the ground). It's all detailed in the MAA RA Order 2330 if you are wanted to google it.The UKLFS and 'civilian' airspace are not the same thing and don't have a direct correlation on a chart. For instance there are areas where it's perfectly within the military rules to be at 250' MSD but inside airspace where you'll be under a ATC service and be talking to an ATC unit.
On the flip side, there are also areas where military low flying below 2000' agl is prohibited (so called 'chain links' shown on the map as a red chain and surrounding major cities) than G registered civilian aircraft are allowed to fly at 500' agl. Other areas specify the minimum MSD to be higher than 250' MSD eg some transit corridors, so again the rules are completely different.
AndrewGP said:
5150 said:
.....but I would imagine non-operational military aircraft transiting through ‘civilian’ airspace would have to comply with the same set of rules regarding low flight.
Not true. Any UK Military fixed wing aircraft transiting below 2000' agl is said to be in the UK Low Flying System (UKLFS), and if the crew are booked in, suitably qualified and authorised, they are therefore cleared down to 250' MSD (minimum separation distance from any person, vessel etc or the ground). It's all detailed in the MAA RA Order 2330 if you are wanted to google it.The UKLFS and 'civilian' airspace are not the same thing and don't have a direct correlation on a chart. For instance there are areas where it's perfectly within the military rules to be at 250' MSD but inside airspace where you'll be under a ATC service and be talking to an ATC unit.
On the flip side, there are also areas where military low flying below 2000' agl is prohibited (so called 'chain links' shown on the map as a red chain and surrounding major cities) than G registered civilian aircraft are allowed to fly at 500' agl. Other areas specify the minimum MSD to be higher than 250' MSD eg some transit corridors, so again the rules are completely different.
Oh! I've slipped through the swirling clouds of dust,
a few feet from the dirt,
I've flown this Phantom low enough,
to make my bottom hurt.
I've TFO'd the deserts, hills,
valleys and mountains too,
Frolicked in the trees,
where only flying squirrels flew.
Chased the frightened cows along,
disturbed the ram and ewe,
And done a hundred other things,
that you'd not care to do.
I've smacked the tiny sparrow,
bluebird, robin, all the rest,
I've ingested baby eaglets,
simply sucked them from their nest!
I've streaked through total darkness,
just the other guy and me,
And spent the night in terror of
things I could not see.
I've turned my eyes to heaven,
as I sweated through the flight,
Put out my hand and touched,
the master caution light.
a few feet from the dirt,
I've flown this Phantom low enough,
to make my bottom hurt.
I've TFO'd the deserts, hills,
valleys and mountains too,
Frolicked in the trees,
where only flying squirrels flew.
Chased the frightened cows along,
disturbed the ram and ewe,
And done a hundred other things,
that you'd not care to do.
I've smacked the tiny sparrow,
bluebird, robin, all the rest,
I've ingested baby eaglets,
simply sucked them from their nest!
I've streaked through total darkness,
just the other guy and me,
And spent the night in terror of
things I could not see.
I've turned my eyes to heaven,
as I sweated through the flight,
Put out my hand and touched,
the master caution light.
Lost ranger said:
I'm surprised there have been that many to get involved in.
There is a lot going on out there - I was involved with the two Hawker Tempest II restorations, a couple of Spitfire IX's, a Spitfire 14, an FM-2 Wildcatplus major overhauls on a Hurricane and a couple of other Spits and a T-6.
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