Suppose HS2 was cancelled
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
aeropilot said:
If we were serious about rail, we'd be putting back a lot of the stuff that was axed under Beeching because 'roads were the future'.......
That's not going to happen either, despite the couple of very small reinstatements that have happened.
Just look at the cluster-f*** that is the South Wales Metro as they try to reintroduce rail and tram services on the south wales valley lines. In several of those valleys they are now cycle paths, and reinstating the rail line is incredibly expensive.That's not going to happen either, despite the couple of very small reinstatements that have happened.
If there's one think that UK Govt is very good at, its getting rid of infrastructure as the bean counters deem it too expensive to mothball instead, even though the decision to get rid of is using made on a short term political basis by someone with no real look at future 'what ifs'.
The MOD are past masters at that game.
Chrisgr31 said:
Its apparently on budget. However government changing their mind at Euston means £105m spent on design is wasted. How you spend £105m on design is beyond me!
Of course if we decided what we were going t do and did it projects like this would be a lot cheaper and arrive a lot quicker. I understand one big issue with HS2 and its cost is the guarantees contractors have to give. Means its all titanium plated!
Working in people's houses as they transition to "work"-from-home these last couple of years as they dash from video call to zoom conference has really highlighted how much of our population we pay to do nothing more than master corporatespeak word salad. All day long sometimes, yak yak yak, touch base blah blah. That's a major reason everything we try to do costs so much compared to Victorians/Chinese etc, is the baggage we carry.Of course if we decided what we were going t do and did it projects like this would be a lot cheaper and arrive a lot quicker. I understand one big issue with HS2 and its cost is the guarantees contractors have to give. Means its all titanium plated!
I use the TGV a lot to get from either Paris to Lyon or Lyon to Marseille for work.
Hardly ever use the train in UK as the routes are not in line with where i live or go but over in France a proper high speed link seems to work well.
But they have space in France which we dont. The trouble is we dont seem to be good at getting to the end point when it comes to infrastructure projects. Cost overuns and mismanagement. Admittedly when its done people do readily accep the "new thing", it just we dont make a easy life of it building the things.
Hardly ever use the train in UK as the routes are not in line with where i live or go but over in France a proper high speed link seems to work well.
But they have space in France which we dont. The trouble is we dont seem to be good at getting to the end point when it comes to infrastructure projects. Cost overuns and mismanagement. Admittedly when its done people do readily accep the "new thing", it just we dont make a easy life of it building the things.
georgezippy said:
Well some of it may be.......
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64421566
What a shambles.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64421566
No direct HS2 trains to central London meaning switch to tube for the last part of the journey thus defeating the entire object of the exercise.
All numbers /marketing promulgated off this time saving and ease etc which now appears to be the last nail.
Also potential delay ( again ) of up to a further 5 years.
Apparently to cancel and " put back to before " ( I know difficult to envisage ) would only cost £8b which seems a bargain.
All cost savings into NHS given WFH ( whether right or wrong ) appears to have negated the point of getting to London quicker and easier anyway.
All numbers /marketing promulgated off this time saving and ease etc which now appears to be the last nail.
Also potential delay ( again ) of up to a further 5 years.
Apparently to cancel and " put back to before " ( I know difficult to envisage ) would only cost £8b which seems a bargain.
All cost savings into NHS given WFH ( whether right or wrong ) appears to have negated the point of getting to London quicker and easier anyway.
alscar said:
No direct HS2 trains to central London meaning switch to tube for the last part of the journey thus defeating the entire object of the exercise.
Worse, in that to connect with Eurostar, you'd need to change onto tube, as Elizabeth Line doesn't go to St.Panc's......It was bad enough that the connection was now going to be a designated covered walkway from Euston to St.Panc's, but a crappy Crossrail to tube to St.Pancs connection is just pointless.
aeropilot said:
alscar said:
No direct HS2 trains to central London meaning switch to tube for the last part of the journey thus defeating the entire object of the exercise.
Worse, in that to connect with Eurostar, you'd need to change onto tube, as Elizabeth Line doesn't go to St.Panc's......It was bad enough that the connection was now going to be a designated covered walkway from Euston to St.Panc's, but a crappy Crossrail to tube to St.Pancs connection is just pointless.
Collectingbrass said:
aeropilot said:
alscar said:
No direct HS2 trains to central London meaning switch to tube for the last part of the journey thus defeating the entire object of the exercise.
Worse, in that to connect with Eurostar, you'd need to change onto tube, as Elizabeth Line doesn't go to St.Panc's......It was bad enough that the connection was now going to be a designated covered walkway from Euston to St.Panc's, but a crappy Crossrail to tube to St.Pancs connection is just pointless.
aeropilot said:
Collectingbrass said:
aeropilot said:
alscar said:
No direct HS2 trains to central London meaning switch to tube for the last part of the journey thus defeating the entire object of the exercise.
Worse, in that to connect with Eurostar, you'd need to change onto tube, as Elizabeth Line doesn't go to St.Panc's......It was bad enough that the connection was now going to be a designated covered walkway from Euston to St.Panc's, but a crappy Crossrail to tube to St.Pancs connection is just pointless.
Bonefish Blues said:
aeropilot said:
Collectingbrass said:
aeropilot said:
alscar said:
No direct HS2 trains to central London meaning switch to tube for the last part of the journey thus defeating the entire object of the exercise.
Worse, in that to connect with Eurostar, you'd need to change onto tube, as Elizabeth Line doesn't go to St.Panc's......It was bad enough that the connection was now going to be a designated covered walkway from Euston to St.Panc's, but a crappy Crossrail to tube to St.Pancs connection is just pointless.
It would also enable an integrated transport hub with air, rail, tube, crosslizpurp, HS2, local and long distance bus services and car all in one place. But integrated transportation is a commie's wet dream...
Edited by Collectingbrass on Friday 27th January 14:57
I have never understood the claim that international airline passengers transiting Heathrow somehow helps the UK economy. It only helps the corresponding airline and Heathrow. The vast majority of these people never set foot outside of the airport.
I don’t think an HS2 station in Heathrow would make much difference to this and would only lengthen the rail journey further, thus defeating the object of the project.
Long haul passengers don’t think “let’s fly to Heathrow, queue for passport control, collect our bags, get a train to Euston, struggle with our luggage on the long walk to St. Pancras, check-in again, queue for Security and then take a train to Paris or wherever”. They just want to transfer to the plane to their destination.
I don’t think an HS2 station in Heathrow would make much difference to this and would only lengthen the rail journey further, thus defeating the object of the project.
Long haul passengers don’t think “let’s fly to Heathrow, queue for passport control, collect our bags, get a train to Euston, struggle with our luggage on the long walk to St. Pancras, check-in again, queue for Security and then take a train to Paris or wherever”. They just want to transfer to the plane to their destination.
Not my usual cup of tea but caught the Jeremy Vine show today, that was a jaw dropping insight. The expert pointed out that yes, they may have planned it to Euston but that they had no solution or design actually signed off?????
What is going on, I know it’s easy to snipe from the back but anyone could see it was a flawed project from the start.
What is going on, I know it’s easy to snipe from the back but anyone could see it was a flawed project from the start.
Edited by Essarell on Friday 27th January 15:56
I would also suggest a lot of ministers and former ministers are advisers and on boards linked to companies involved with the project.
it is the way modern government works and you will probably find numerous articles linking it in Private eye, they are good as that sort of thing.
Much like the pathetic Covid stuff that stupid woman did with PPe. ||ad none of it will stick, it never does. As richness always wins.
it is the way modern government works and you will probably find numerous articles linking it in Private eye, they are good as that sort of thing.
Much like the pathetic Covid stuff that stupid woman did with PPe. ||ad none of it will stick, it never does. As richness always wins.
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