Reno AIr Races - last ever 2023
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
zsdom said:
Eric Mc said:
I don't think that there is a mass interest in aviation amongst the under 50s to be honest.
This is fundamentally wrong, airshows are still one of the most attended events across the UK, Cosford for a one day show sold out at over 50k, RIAT also regularly sees well over 200k people attend. That can’t all be with the majority of them being over 50Go to a base like Lakenheath or Connigsby & you’ll find the majority are well under your age bracket
Have a look at the airshow calendar for 1983 compared to 2023.
Its a simple fact that the majority of airshow goers are under the age of 50, then add their families on top of that
These events simply wouldnt continually sell out year after year if only the age group of 50+ attended
zsdom said:
It’s a classic boomerism ‘its not how it was in my days’
Because in this case, it genuinely ISN'T the same as it was.The point I am making is that with fewer airshows, then it is easier for the remaining small number of shows to be well attended. Try hosting almost 100 airshows in a year as we once did here in the UK and see how many would turn up today.
Airshows are dying for all sorts of reasons. Lack of public interest is ONE of those reasons.
And I know quite a few young people (under 40) snd I can assure you that the percentage of them that have even a remote interest in anything that flies is vansihingly small.
Eric Mc said:
Because in this case, it genuinely ISN'T the same as it was.
The point I am making is that with fewer airshows, then it is easier for the remaining small number of shows to be well attended. Try hosting almost 100 airshows in a year as we once did here in the UK and see how many would turn up today.
Airshows are dying for all sorts of reasons. Lack of public interest is ONE of those reasons.
And I know quite a few young people (under 40) snd I can assure you that the percentage of them that have even a remote interest in anything that flies is vansihingly small.
Of course it's not the same, Stevie Wonder can see that, which again is my point opposite to yours, people over 50 are more likely to be less interested or lost their love for aviation that those under.The point I am making is that with fewer airshows, then it is easier for the remaining small number of shows to be well attended. Try hosting almost 100 airshows in a year as we once did here in the UK and see how many would turn up today.
Airshows are dying for all sorts of reasons. Lack of public interest is ONE of those reasons.
And I know quite a few young people (under 40) snd I can assure you that the percentage of them that have even a remote interest in anything that flies is vansihingly small.
Can you show me one airshow that has been cancelled due to a lack of interest? People are interested in airshows and aviation, if they weren't events wouldn't sell out, events like Bournemouth wouldnt attract over 1m a year, people wouldnt want to become pilots, engineers or any of the other fields working within aviation.
If anything having less events makes them more attractive to people to attend.
I'm under the age of 40 (just!) I attend 7-8 airshows or photshoots every year with various friends and all but one of them are under 40, look at the recent Cobra Warrior excercise at Waddo & Conningsby, the spotters day event sold out in less than 15 minutes, hundreds of people turned up daily to observe, and thats just an excercise, people literally came to see aircraft taxi past a fence & took off & landed twice a day, look at just 2 phots below of the event, the majority 100% are under the age of 50
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Edited by zsdom on Thursday 30th March 19:31
Edited by zsdom on Thursday 30th March 19:33
Eric Mc said:
Airshows are dying for all sorts of reasons. Lack of public interest is ONE of those reasons.
Currently watching the excellent 'Jet! When Britain Ruled the Skies', (BBC4 now) and wondering how much of his annual income Eric Mc would hand over to go back in time and attend a Farnborough airshow from the early 50's....!Interesting that test pilots were household names like F1 drivers and footballers are now. Not any more, sadly.
I would suggest the guy is right, people over 50 will have experienced airshows when they were good, if you lived in Lincolnshire like me you could attend two or three massive ones within a few hours, Finningley, Waddington and even Mildenhall was not too far. That was all you needed.
Compare that with the tame, watered down crap you get now, and yes they are not as good, but if you are a kid and you have never seen anything like this before it doesn't matter. Planes still make kids and parents go wow, the RAF rely on it as do most armed forces recruiting in some way, that is a small part of the point of airshows in general
Compare that with the tame, watered down crap you get now, and yes they are not as good, but if you are a kid and you have never seen anything like this before it doesn't matter. Planes still make kids and parents go wow, the RAF rely on it as do most armed forces recruiting in some way, that is a small part of the point of airshows in general
I work in aviation. Have done since 1981, and was in the air cadets from 1977 til I joined the RAF.
Even among the people I work with there is little interest really. Nobody intends to go to any air shows this year, and Duxford is only 50 miles away. The annual families day is treated as an opportunity to go home early!
I’m not going to find out for sure, but I suspect that in 1982, when I arrived at Honington, there were more air shows in Essex, Suffolk, Norfolk and Lincolnshire than there are across the U.K. now. And the shows were just plain better. Anyone who argues they weren’t is only fooling themselves.
If aircraft still scared everyone at air shows, I’d go to as many as possible. If the sheer speed still astonished, I’d go to as many as possible.
Even among the people I work with there is little interest really. Nobody intends to go to any air shows this year, and Duxford is only 50 miles away. The annual families day is treated as an opportunity to go home early!
I’m not going to find out for sure, but I suspect that in 1982, when I arrived at Honington, there were more air shows in Essex, Suffolk, Norfolk and Lincolnshire than there are across the U.K. now. And the shows were just plain better. Anyone who argues they weren’t is only fooling themselves.
If aircraft still scared everyone at air shows, I’d go to as many as possible. If the sheer speed still astonished, I’d go to as many as possible.
zsdom said:
Eric Mc said:
Because in this case, it genuinely ISN'T the same as it was.
The point I am making is that with fewer airshows, then it is easier for the remaining small number of shows to be well attended. Try hosting almost 100 airshows in a year as we once did here in the UK and see how many would turn up today.
Airshows are dying for all sorts of reasons. Lack of public interest is ONE of those reasons.
And I know quite a few young people (under 40) snd I can assure you that the percentage of them that have even a remote interest in anything that flies is vansihingly small.
Of course it's not the same, Stevie Wonder can see that, which again is my point opposite to yours, people over 50 are more likely to be less interested or lost their love for aviation that those under.The point I am making is that with fewer airshows, then it is easier for the remaining small number of shows to be well attended. Try hosting almost 100 airshows in a year as we once did here in the UK and see how many would turn up today.
Airshows are dying for all sorts of reasons. Lack of public interest is ONE of those reasons.
And I know quite a few young people (under 40) snd I can assure you that the percentage of them that have even a remote interest in anything that flies is vansihingly small.
Can you show me one airshow that has been cancelled due to a lack of interest? People are interested in airshows and aviation, if they weren't events wouldn't sell out, events like Bournemouth wouldnt attract over 1m a year, people wouldnt want to become pilots, engineers or any of the other fields working within aviation.
If anything having less events makes them more attractive to people to attend.
I'm under the age of 40 (just!) I attend 7-8 airshows or photshoots every year with various friends and all but one of them are under 40, look at the recent Cobra Warrior excercise at Waddo & Conningsby, the spotters day event sold out in less than 15 minutes, hundreds of people turned up daily to observe, and thats just an excercise, people literally came to see aircraft taxi past a fence & took off & landed twice a day, look at just 2 phots below of the event, the majority 100% are under the age of 50
Edited by zsdom on Thursday 30th March 19:31
Edited by zsdom on Thursday 30th March 19:33
I went to the last (ever?) airshow at Biggin Hill, absolutely fantastic, with people of all ages, the same with Headcorn, where you have a variety of attractions and a wide variety of aircraft.
I think the problem why airshows are dying out is admission prices, they are far too high.
Lastly, your language earlier on, calling people "boomers", lets me know what you think about older people such as me.
I wouldn't exactly call a couple of dozen spotters particularly busy when Farnborough used to get over 200,000 visitors in a week.
I think these days there aren't as many interesting aircraft and regulations mean they can't do interesting displays, so people are understandably less interested.
I believe Farnborough 2022 had a few flypasts (Typhoon, Korean airforce display team) a handful of helicopters, and a fairly tame display by an F35 and various commercial jets.
Back in the 90's and early 2000's you'd get Mig-29, SU-27, SU-34, Yak-141, Harrier, Tornado, F-15, F-16, F-18, EAP, Typhoon, Grippen, Rafale, AN-225, AN-124, An-72, C-17, Galaxy, B1, B2, AMX, various Hawk variants, F22...with most of the fighters and trainers doing a full display.
I miss the days we'd spend most of the afternoons of practice week standing in the work carpark watching things like a Mig-29 doing a tail slide right above us, or the first time one the crazy Russians did a backflip!
I think these days there aren't as many interesting aircraft and regulations mean they can't do interesting displays, so people are understandably less interested.
I believe Farnborough 2022 had a few flypasts (Typhoon, Korean airforce display team) a handful of helicopters, and a fairly tame display by an F35 and various commercial jets.
Back in the 90's and early 2000's you'd get Mig-29, SU-27, SU-34, Yak-141, Harrier, Tornado, F-15, F-16, F-18, EAP, Typhoon, Grippen, Rafale, AN-225, AN-124, An-72, C-17, Galaxy, B1, B2, AMX, various Hawk variants, F22...with most of the fighters and trainers doing a full display.
I miss the days we'd spend most of the afternoons of practice week standing in the work carpark watching things like a Mig-29 doing a tail slide right above us, or the first time one the crazy Russians did a backflip!
I will never forget Finningley one year.,
We lived in Lincolnshiore so the red Arrows were a but meh to be honest saw them most weeks, spent years seeing them at shows even back to the Gnat days, brilliant, amazing skill, but seen it once you know.
So Finningley they were coming so we left early to get out (age old tactic Mum and Dad came up with usually worked), you will all know it took hours to leave these places in the 80's but this was an advantage as the Blue Angels were on after, and they were breathtaking, early days of F18. The exit was to the right of the flightline, so these chaps were coming in right over our car, low as anything, and I was treated to the best airshow I had ever seen, some flying that left you gobsmacked, and all because we left early to avoid the post Red Arrows showstopper rush, it was mega!
We lived in Lincolnshiore so the red Arrows were a but meh to be honest saw them most weeks, spent years seeing them at shows even back to the Gnat days, brilliant, amazing skill, but seen it once you know.
So Finningley they were coming so we left early to get out (age old tactic Mum and Dad came up with usually worked), you will all know it took hours to leave these places in the 80's but this was an advantage as the Blue Angels were on after, and they were breathtaking, early days of F18. The exit was to the right of the flightline, so these chaps were coming in right over our car, low as anything, and I was treated to the best airshow I had ever seen, some flying that left you gobsmacked, and all because we left early to avoid the post Red Arrows showstopper rush, it was mega!
andyA700 said:
You haven't got a clue, about what an airshow is. You post images from the recent do's up in Lincolnshire, which definitely were not airshows, they were actually a bit interesting for five minutes. I know, because I watched some of the footage on Youtube, then got bored and watched some classic F1 instead.
I went to the last (ever?) airshow at Biggin Hill, absolutely fantastic, with people of all ages, the same with Headcorn, where you have a variety of attractions and a wide variety of aircraft.
I think the problem why airshows are dying out is admission prices, they are far too high.
Lastly, your language earlier on, calling people "boomers", lets me know what you think about older people such as me.
and thats just an excercise, people literally came to see aircraft taxi past a fence & took off & landed twice a dayI went to the last (ever?) airshow at Biggin Hill, absolutely fantastic, with people of all ages, the same with Headcorn, where you have a variety of attractions and a wide variety of aircraft.
I think the problem why airshows are dying out is admission prices, they are far too high.
Lastly, your language earlier on, calling people "boomers", lets me know what you think about older people such as me.
I guess you missed this part of my post right?
As for me not having a clue, about what an airshow is. Allow me to introduce myself, my names Dominic, I am a member of the team that runs UK Airshow Review I literally review airshows, you can read my reviews of Cosford, Shuttleworth and other UK events, we also have a successful podcast that I'm part of, I've had chats with display pilots (Mike Ling being the last I spoke to), airshow organisers (Peter Reoch, head of RIAT air ops being one) flying display directors, airshow volunteers, John Nichol etc etc
Pre pandemic & cost of living I would attend circa 10+ airshows some even being outside of the UK
But ok, I'll take your point, I know nothing about airshows
As for the boomer comment, what else should the generation known as baby boomers be called?
Edited by zsdom on Friday 31st March 12:25
andyA700 said:
You haven't got a clue, about what an airshow is.
zsdom said:
I am a member of the team that runs UK Airshow Review I literally review airshows
Good checkmate. But put that info in your profile so people know your level of skill/knowledge - it saves arguing 
zsdom said:
and thats just an excercise, people literally came to see aircraft taxi past a fence & took off & landed twice a day
I guess you missed this part of my post right?
As for me not having a clue, about what an airshow is. Allow me to introduce myself, my names Dominic, I am a member of the team that runs UK Airshow Review I literally review airshows, you can read my reviews of Cosford, Shuttleworth and other UK events, we also have a successful podcast that I'm part of, I've had chats with display pilots (Mike Ling being the last I spoke to), airshow organisers (Peter Reoch, head of RIAT air ops being one) flying display directors, airshow volunteers, John Nichol etc etc
Pre pandemic & cost of living I would attend circa 10+ airshows some even being outside of the UK
But ok, I'll take your point, I know nothing about airshows
As for the boomer comment, what else should the generation known as baby boomers be called?
Well played.I guess you missed this part of my post right?
As for me not having a clue, about what an airshow is. Allow me to introduce myself, my names Dominic, I am a member of the team that runs UK Airshow Review I literally review airshows, you can read my reviews of Cosford, Shuttleworth and other UK events, we also have a successful podcast that I'm part of, I've had chats with display pilots (Mike Ling being the last I spoke to), airshow organisers (Peter Reoch, head of RIAT air ops being one) flying display directors, airshow volunteers, John Nichol etc etc
Pre pandemic & cost of living I would attend circa 10+ airshows some even being outside of the UK
But ok, I'll take your point, I know nothing about airshows
As for the boomer comment, what else should the generation known as baby boomers be called?
Edited by zsdom on Friday 31st March 12:25
RizzoTheRat said:
aeropilot said:
Same with Air Tattoo at Greenham Common in '79.
I feel old....
You are, and I'm jealous. I never got to go to the Greenham common airshow, despite living quite near, I was probably only about 10 when it stopped. I feel old....
I went to Leuchars airshow a few times in the 80s.
There were miles long queues for cars to get in and the trains were absolutely packed, I think they may have even put on extra trains.
There was a lot of flying and the crowds were immense.
A few local roads that had a view of the airbase were also full of parked cars (the high road from Strathkinness was apparently a favourite) and at least one farmer opened up a couple of fields to allow people to park up and watch
Not bad for somewhere that's not particularly central.
I also went to Finningley at some point in the mid 70s but I was that young I can't remember a lot about it.
There were miles long queues for cars to get in and the trains were absolutely packed, I think they may have even put on extra trains.
There was a lot of flying and the crowds were immense.
A few local roads that had a view of the airbase were also full of parked cars (the high road from Strathkinness was apparently a favourite) and at least one farmer opened up a couple of fields to allow people to park up and watch
Not bad for somewhere that's not particularly central.
I also went to Finningley at some point in the mid 70s but I was that young I can't remember a lot about it.
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