Reno AIr Races - last ever 2023

[The Hypno-Toad]

aeropilot said:

The Hypno-Toad said:

clive_candy said:

Air Fete '78. Need I say more?

Air Fete '79. With row after row after row of Hercules'.

Same with Air Tattoo at Greenham Common in '79.



I feel old....

Typo. The Tattoo was the one I meant but I thought it was still called the Air Fete at that point. It was glorious.

[aeropilot]

The Hypno-Toad said:

aeropilot said:

The Hypno-Toad said:

clive_candy said:

Air Fete '78. Need I say more?

Air Fete '79. With row after row after row of Hercules'.

Same with Air Tattoo at Greenham Common in '79.



I feel old....

Typo. The Tattoo was the one I meant but I thought it was still called the Air Fete at that point. It was glorious.

The rows of Herc's were to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the C-130.

Here we are almost 45 years later, and the RAF are just about to stupidly say goodbye to Fat Albert

[ShortBeardy]

When I came to the states and realised that getting a pilots licence was affordable, I leapt at it. When I grew up, Hurricane & Spitfire Pilots were heroes. So the chance to learn to fly was something that appealed to the inner child.
So for a forum largely UK based, I wonder if there is some aspect of this reduction in appeal is just the increasing time that has elapsed since WWII? We forget that these few from the past did so much for so many.
The UK does not celebrate it's military like the US does, and perhaps it's part of national `growing up'. The US is still a young country whereas Britain has seen it's empire come and go. There is less chest beating than there once was.

Reno is nothing like watching warbirds at an airshow. As much as watching a group of Spitfires parading round tugs at the heartstrings, hearing a bunch of these piston engined fighters at full chat, low and close is awe inspiring.

[The Hypno-Toad]

aeropilot said:

The Hypno-Toad said:

aeropilot said:

The Hypno-Toad said:

clive_candy said:

Air Fete '78. Need I say more?

Air Fete '79. With row after row after row of Hercules'.

Same with Air Tattoo at Greenham Common in '79.



I feel old....

Typo. The Tattoo was the one I meant but I thought it was still called the Air Fete at that point. It was glorious.

The rows of Herc's were to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the C-130.

Here we are almost 45 years later, and the RAF are just about to stupidly say goodbye to Fat Albert

It was a great day, I was 13 and we came up in a minibus from school. The only drawback was one of the boys must have been infected because a week later I had head lice.

[aeropilot]

ShortBeardy said:

When I came to the states and realised that getting a pilots licence was affordable, I leapt at it. When I grew up, Hurricane & Spitfire Pilots were heroes. So the chance to learn to fly was something that appealed to the inner child.
So for a forum largely UK based, I wonder if there is some aspect of this reduction in appeal is just the increasing time that has elapsed since WWII? We forget that these few from the past did so much for so many.
The UK does not celebrate it's military like the US does, and perhaps it's part of national `growing up'. The US is still a young country whereas Britain has seen it's empire come and go. There is less chest beating than there once was.

There is an element of that without doubt.
Biggest factor is regulation changes in the aftermath of Shoreham, factors around staging large events in a post-Covid world, an element of environmental considerations..........but, the single biggest is the massive reduction in the RAF since the break up of the former USSR, and the similar reduction in the USAFE in the UK as well, meaning that the many airbase shows have all disappeared.
The RAF hasn't hosted a Battle of Britain At Home Airshow at a RAF airfield for over a decade, and will likely never do so again. Back in the late 1950's there were over fifty RAF Battle of Britain At Home Airshows alone....!!
The USAFE has also not hosted one airshow in UK since the demise of Mildenhall Air Fete in a post 9/11 world, so 22 years ago (and it now only has two active air bases in UK anyway)

Yes, you can cite a healthier civilian owned warbird since the 1980's, although even that has reduced with the deaths and aging of some of its 1980's and 90's main participants, but you've got maybe 2 or 3 prime airshows in a year now, which is no wonder that they are a sell out, as said.

I'm grateful I saw the heyday of the late 70's through to the early 2000's, with the odd one now and then after that until Shoreham.

[andyA700]

zsdom said:

andyA700 said:

You haven't got a clue, about what an airshow is. You post images from the recent do's up in Lincolnshire, which definitely were not airshows, they were actually a bit interesting for five minutes. I know, because I watched some of the footage on Youtube, then got bored and watched some classic F1 instead.
I went to the last (ever?) airshow at Biggin Hill, absolutely fantastic, with people of all ages, the same with Headcorn, where you have a variety of attractions and a wide variety of aircraft.
I think the problem why airshows are dying out is admission prices, they are far too high.
Lastly, your language earlier on, calling people "boomers", lets me know what you think about older people such as me.

and thats just an excercise, people literally came to see aircraft taxi past a fence & took off & landed twice a day

I guess you missed this part of my post right?

As for me not having a clue, about what an airshow is. Allow me to introduce myself, my names Dominic, I am a member of the team that runs UK Airshow Review I literally review airshows, you can read my reviews of Cosford, Shuttleworth and other UK events, we also have a successful podcast that I'm part of, I've had chats with display pilots (Mike Ling being the last I spoke to), airshow organisers (Peter Reoch, head of RIAT air ops being one) flying display directors, airshow volunteers, John Nichol etc etc

Pre pandemic & cost of living I would attend circa 10+ airshows some even being outside of the UK

But ok, I'll take your point, I know nothing about airshows

As for the boomer comment, what else should the generation known as baby boomers be called?

Edited by zsdom on Friday 31st March 12:25

Given all of that, why do you really think people are not going to airshows? When I went to Headcorn a few years ago, there was adequate parking, reasonable admission fees, a wide variety of aircraft, people of all ages, the atmosphere was fantastic.
I would love to go to the Shuttleworth Airshow on 7th May, but they want £35 for a ticket, so when I factor in travel costs, food etc. that will be around £150 for the day for two people, just too much.

[GliderRider]

andyA700 said:

Given all of that, why do you really think people are not going to airshows? When I went to Headcorn a few years ago, there was adequate parking, reasonable admission fees, a wide variety of aircraft, people of all ages, the atmosphere was fantastic.
I would love to go to the Shuttleworth Airshow on 7th May, but they want £35 for a ticket, so when I factor in travel costs, food etc. that will be around £150 for the day for two people, just too much.

What would you consider to be a comparable non-airshow event these days at what you consider a still affordable price? Whether its Goodwood Festival of Speed/Revival, going to a London stage show or a major league sports event, I would have thought £150 for two 'all in' would be either the going rate or substantially less than it.

[Taita]

Any alternatives UK / US / other where we can see similar to Reno style racing?

[zsdom]

andyA700 said:

Given all of that, why do you really think people are not going to airshows? When I went to Headcorn a few years ago, there was adequate parking, reasonable admission fees, a wide variety of aircraft, people of all ages, the atmosphere was fantastic.
I would love to go to the Shuttleworth Airshow on 7th May, but they want £35 for a ticket, so when I factor in travel costs, food etc. that will be around £150 for the day for two people, just too much.

People are attending airshows and in their droves still, last year I went to Cosford, Midlands Air festival, RIAT & the Victory Show at Cosby and they'd all (bar Cosby) sold out. Airshows are still one of the best attended spectator events (I think still only bettered by football)

Yes airshow tickets can be expensive but, compare that against other full day events and £ for £ they're still cracking vfm, I went to a cricket match at Edgbaston in 2021 & tickets were worth £90+ , add travel and food to that too it was near £125 for one day, I did Cosford for less than £50 all in, my 6 days at RIAT with camping worked out at around £65 a day

A whole day Shuttleworth is worth every penny, their 2019 Flying festival is probably one of the finest airshows I've ever been to, it was an incredible atmosphere & events, the whole place was buzzing, at it's best there's no other place like it in the world, you can do so much more than just watch aircraft

Edited by zsdom on Saturday 1st April 14:40

[zsdom]

GliderRider said:

What would you consider to be a comparable non-airshow event these days at what you consider a still affordable price? Whether its Goodwood Festival of Speed/Revival, going to a London stage show or a major league sports event, I would have thought £150 for two 'all in' would be either the going rate or substantially less than it.

Exactly this, how much is Goodwood, Silverstone F1, a Premier League match etc etc

[aeropilot]

Taita said:

Any alternatives UK / US / other where we can see similar to Reno style racing?

Nope.
No where else in the world will you see unlimted class air racing as at Reno.

[aeropilot]

zsdom said:

Airshows are still one of the best attended spectator events (I think still only bettered by football)

I'd be surprised if airshow attendance was higher than horse racing, when you consider that almost 1m people attend the four big horse racing meets of Derby, Royal Ascot, Cheltenham Festival and Grand National alone and then add on all the other almost weekly minor flat racing or national hunt meets around the country, which must be anything from a few thousand to a few tens of thousand each one.

[zsdom]

aeropilot said:

zsdom said:

Airshows are still one of the best attended spectator events (I think still only bettered by football)

I'd be surprised if airshow attendance was higher than horse racing, when you consider that almost 1m people attend the four big horse racing meets of Derby, Royal Ascot, Cheltenham Festival and Grand National alone and then add on all the other almost weekly minor flat racing or national hunt meets around the country, which must be anything from a few thousand to a few tens of thousand each one.

I’d disagree, RIAT sees their attendance in the 100s of thousands, Cosford was near 58k, Bournemouth saw over 600k, most seaside shows, of which there’s 4-5 a year, report 250k, then your regular Duxford, Shuttleworth, Headcorns, Abingdon, they’ll see 10s of thousands too

[aeropilot]

zsdom said:

aeropilot said:

zsdom said:

Airshows are still one of the best attended spectator events (I think still only bettered by football)

I'd be surprised if airshow attendance was higher than horse racing, when you consider that almost 1m people attend the four big horse racing meets of Derby, Royal Ascot, Cheltenham Festival and Grand National alone and then add on all the other almost weekly minor flat racing or national hunt meets around the country, which must be anything from a few thousand to a few tens of thousand each one.

I’d disagree, RIAT sees their attendance in the 100s of thousands, Cosford was near 58k, Bournemouth saw over 600k, most seaside shows, of which there’s 4-5 a year, report 250k, then your regular Duxford, Shuttleworth, Headcorns, Abingdon, they’ll see 10s of thousands too

Maybe?
It seems horse racing is just over 5 million, down from pre-Covid levels of around 6 million.

[JW911]

Total airshow attendance last year (22) was 4.4 million. Airshows are the third largest spectator activity in the U.K. after football and horse racing (source: BADA).

As for Reno, that is the last event of its kind.

Edited by JW911 on Saturday 1st April 17:52

[Eric Mc]

zsdom said:

I’d disagree, RIAT sees their attendance in the 100s of thousands, Cosford was near 58k, Bournemouth saw over 600k, most seaside shows, of which there’s 4-5 a year, report 250k, then your regular Duxford, Shuttleworth, Headcorns, Abingdon, they’ll see 10s of thousands too

The seaside show is a relatively modern phenomeon and to me counting crowd attendances at an event where you don't need to pay to attend is not a fair comparison with more traditional "pay to get in" events whether they be sports events or old fashioned airfield based airshows.

The demise I am talking about is in what I would call "proper" airshows, held at airfields with static and flying displays and aviation themed traders and ground based displays. They are much, much rarer than they used to be. So, by default "proper" airshow crowds have to be down because "proper" airshows are far less frequent.

And don't bang on too much about the huge crowds at free seaside airshow. Those airshows are now beginning to disappear too with many local councils calling a halt to them too. The future is not bright.

[Tony1963]

Friends that used to go to the Lowestoft air show were horrified at the number of people that would laugh at the volunteers going around collecting donations to support the show. Some would even tell the volunteers to p*** off.

Well, they got what they asked for!

[dr_gn]

Out of interest:

To the people complaining that the price of attending an airshow is too much - how much would you suggest was reasonable for, say, Flying Legends or the larger Shuttleworth displays?

Edited by dr_gn on Sunday 2nd April 12:02

[Simpo Two]

Note that airshows get zero TV coverage (unless there's an accident, in which case the media make it headline news). That can't help the popularity/attendance.

When was a UK airshow last broadcast live? Even the boat race gets that accolade.

[Tony1963]

Simpo Two said:

Note that airshows get zero TV coverage (unless there's an accident, in which case the media make it headline news). That can't help the popularity/attendance.

When was a UK airshow last broadcast live? Even the boat race gets that accolade.

Well, an air show lasts a few hours, and much of it is difficult to present on telly. And if the weather turns all British on them, nobody will watch anyway. Who would support it with advertising?

And talking of weather, that’s a large reason why I don’t go anymore: prepaying £40 well ahead of the event, to possibly end up standing out in the open on a windy airfield in the rain? No thanks.