Wasn't the Hindenburg crash really weird
Discussion
TGCOTF-dewey said:
Pete54 said:
Oh and finally - do you fancy long distance flying at less than 70kts instead of 400 plus? That is what the Hindenburg managed.
For some journeys, absolutely if I had a cabin, a bed, and could wander down to a dining room and eat non microwaved food that wasn't served on a fold down plastic tray. 
TGCOTF-dewey said:
Given the highest speed for an unpowered balloon is 245mph, I'm sure with judicious use of the wind, modern propulsion systems, and semi lifting body designs, you could comfortably exceed 70kts.
Yes you could - but only in the direction the wind is blowing. So, on the day you're due to fly off on holiday, you look at the weather forecast and find out where you're likely to end up. Tip - book a holiday somewhere east...Some people have been making a case for the return of airships for decades. So far, nothing larger than the old Goodyear blimps have entered into any sort of regular service. Airship Industries at Cardington tried for years offering all sorts of potential uses - passenger sightseeing, fisheries patrol, airborne early warning, military communications etc.
In the end, nothing has come of any of these schemes. The most recent big project, Airlander, seemed to offer something a bit different but has a habit of running into the ground.
The idea of an airship being used for a nice, leisurely aerial tour of the UK, or an aerial safari over the African savannah has a certain appeal - and with modern materials and engines some of the frailties associated with the Zeppelin era are not as severe as they were in those days.
But so far, nothing has come of any of these plans to revive the airship.
In the end, nothing has come of any of these schemes. The most recent big project, Airlander, seemed to offer something a bit different but has a habit of running into the ground.
The idea of an airship being used for a nice, leisurely aerial tour of the UK, or an aerial safari over the African savannah has a certain appeal - and with modern materials and engines some of the frailties associated with the Zeppelin era are not as severe as they were in those days.
But so far, nothing has come of any of these plans to revive the airship.
Simpo Two said:
Yes you could - but only in the direction the wind is blowing. So, on the day you're due to fly off on holiday, you look at the weather forecast and find out where you're likely to end up. Tip - book a holiday somewhere east...
US DARPA HULA project could do 500 tonnes, 5000 miles at 90kts cruise. The next phase was significantly more lift capability. Not many ships have 90kts cruise.
As I said, it's an academic discussion anway as planes won that race.
Scotty2 said:
I've been on the Zeppelin NT on a trip over Bodensee (Lake Constance), Fantastic experience and I recommend the Zeppelin Museum at Friedrichaven.
Taking off is quite an experience. Nothing like a plane or helicopter where you can feel the struggle to overcome gravity, in an airship, the ground seems to fall away...
Oh and the Graf Zeppelin covered over 1,058,000 miles with no injuries to passengers or crew!
I took the family for a trip. The Zeppelin NT has propellers that can swivel and a tail prop a bit like a Helicopter to control yaw. it can hold itself down on the ground for boarding by vectoring the thrust. It seemed to have plenty power available. Very stable and the feeling of taking off was something special. As I said, the earth falls away from you!Taking off is quite an experience. Nothing like a plane or helicopter where you can feel the struggle to overcome gravity, in an airship, the ground seems to fall away...
Oh and the Graf Zeppelin covered over 1,058,000 miles with no injuries to passengers or crew!
Scotty2 said:
Scotty2 said:
I've been on the Zeppelin NT on a trip over Bodensee (Lake Constance), Fantastic experience and I recommend the Zeppelin Museum at Friedrichaven.
Taking off is quite an experience. Nothing like a plane or helicopter where you can feel the struggle to overcome gravity, in an airship, the ground seems to fall away...
Oh and the Graf Zeppelin covered over 1,058,000 miles with no injuries to passengers or crew!
I took the family for a trip. The Zeppelin NT has propellers that can swivel and a tail prop a bit like a Helicopter to control yaw. it can hold itself down on the ground for boarding by vectoring the thrust. It seemed to have plenty power available. Very stable and the feeling of taking off was something special. As I said, the earth falls away from you!Taking off is quite an experience. Nothing like a plane or helicopter where you can feel the struggle to overcome gravity, in an airship, the ground seems to fall away...
Oh and the Graf Zeppelin covered over 1,058,000 miles with no injuries to passengers or crew!
V41LEY said:
Has anyone on here actually been a passenger on an airship ?
If so, what was the experience like ? I would feel extremely vulnerable to the wind and weather but maybe that isn’t the case. They always seem on the limit of control and lacking in power.
They were very vulnerable to weather; the big rigid airships flew low enough to be in the weather (like an unpressurised aircraft), but weren't quick enough to escape it (like a surface ship) and so in many ways combined the worst aspects of both. The German Zeppelins relied on detailed weather forecasting at both land and sea for passage planning - something that DZR was looking to cut back on - and the Graf Zeppelin was deemed unsuitable for regular trans-Atlantic service because she wasn't fast enough to stand a chance of avoiding weather fronts even with advanced warning. Hence why the scheme was for the service to be provided by the faster Hindenburg and the Graf Zeppelin II. If so, what was the experience like ? I would feel extremely vulnerable to the wind and weather but maybe that isn’t the case. They always seem on the limit of control and lacking in power.
The reliability of fixed-wing aviation took massive leaps forward in the 1930s in both technical and operational senses and once large inter-continental flying boats and pressurised airliners came into the picture at the end of the decade the Zeppelins would have been commercially doomed even without the Hindenburg's fiery end.
And yes, lack of power was always a problem with the large airships. The technology of period meant they really struggled to combine reliability, power and weight in the right combination (witness the tribulations of the R101's power units). The advances in powerplant technology that could have provided airships with the powerplants they really needed also served to make fixed-wing aircraft more reliable and economical, so the it was rather moot. And that goes for lots of things - all the advances in aerodynamics, structural engineering, material science, control technology and powerplants that could, in theory, make really good airships just serve to make their competitors even better. But the big Early Warning Rader blimps the US Navy operated in the 1950s (with the radar equipment inside the envelope, which served as both the gasbag and the radome) were both huge - the 'Nan Ship' was nearly 350 feet long! -, had the benefit of engines that provided a power/weight ratio the Hindenburg could only dream of and used alloy metals and plastics that weren't available to designers in the 1920s/1930s. Then the modern craft like the Skyships, the Airlander and the Zeppelin NT use swivelling ducted fans for better maneuverability and to dispense with the huge ground crews that the old Zeppelins needed. That could be done in the 1930s (the USN Akron-class ships had swiveling props) but they were heavy and rather unreliable.
I agree with all the technical limitations of having an airship/zeplin or whatever but they are just so cool, I am surprised one of the billionaire nutters like Musk or Bezos etc haven't had one built just because they can, certainly would be one of the things I would do should I ever become that wealthy.
geeks said:
I agree with all the technical limitations of having an airship/zeplin or whatever but they are just so cool, I am surprised one of the billionaire nutters like Musk or Bezos etc haven't had one built just because they can, certainly would be one of the things I would do should I ever become that wealthy.
But why would you do that when you can build a moon-rocket? Yertis said:
geeks said:
I agree with all the technical limitations of having an airship/zeplin or whatever but they are just so cool, I am surprised one of the billionaire nutters like Musk or Bezos etc haven't had one built just because they can, certainly would be one of the things I would do should I ever become that wealthy.
But why would you do that when you can build a moon-rocket? 
ds have enough money for this not to be an “either or” type choice 
Always makes me think of college, there was a lad called David Hindle who was a keen smoker.
He had a Zippo lighter and one day he was filling it during a smoke break, but managed to slosh some lighter fluid on his coat (A pretty manky cheap blue anorak) he then lit his fag and his fuel infused anorak caught fire, I wasnt there personally not being a smoker but I believe it was quite the conflagration that involved removing the anorak and stamping on it.
Hitherto known as "The Hindleburg".
Was easy to remember as for some time he still wore the burnt anorak, it was disgusting pre fire but took some time to replace it.
He had a Zippo lighter and one day he was filling it during a smoke break, but managed to slosh some lighter fluid on his coat (A pretty manky cheap blue anorak) he then lit his fag and his fuel infused anorak caught fire, I wasnt there personally not being a smoker but I believe it was quite the conflagration that involved removing the anorak and stamping on it.
Hitherto known as "The Hindleburg".
Was easy to remember as for some time he still wore the burnt anorak, it was disgusting pre fire but took some time to replace it.
Simpo Two said:
You can. It's called a ship
Takes a week. Fares not as dreadful as I expected;https://www.seat61.com/queen-mary-2-transatlantic....
Zumbruk said:
Simpo Two said:
You can. It's called a ship
Takes a week. Fares not as dreadful as I expected;https://www.seat61.com/queen-mary-2-transatlantic....
Tango13 said:
If you can find a copy of James Gilberts book 'The World's Worst Aircraft' he talks about the failing of the R100 & R101
I have that book and the section on the R100/R101 is an amazing story. "I am the Minister of Aviation and I say the R101 is ready to fly to India,"
"Well, we're the people who have built it and we say it isn't safe to fly it round the block,"
"You don't understand. I am the Minister of Aviation but I would really like my next job to be the Governor Of India, so I say that it is,"
"I really wouldn't"
"Pah!"
"Where are we?"
"France"
"What's that burning smell? And why's that field coming up so fast?"
The Hypno-Toad said:
Tango13 said:
If you can find a copy of James Gilberts book 'The World's Worst Aircraft' he talks about the failing of the R100 & R101
I have that book and the section on the R100/R101 is an amazing story. "I am the Minister of Aviation and I say the R101 is ready to fly to India,"
"Well, we're the people who have built it and we say it isn't safe to fly it round the block,"
"You don't understand. I am the Minister of Aviation but I would really like my next job to be the Governor Of India, so I say that it is,"
"I really wouldn't"
"Pah!"
"Where are we?"
"France"
"What's that burning smell? And why's that field coming up so fast?"
'There are SS troops in the area sir'
'Well I have decided we're going to do it so I will ignore that'.
And Challenger.
Some years (decades) ago I read Sir Peter Masefield's book 'To Ride The Storm' about the R.101, though it also covers the R.100 and earlier British airships quite a lot. Fascinating stuff. The 1930s luxury airships had an almost Space Age image of modernity and yet actually relied on some pretty primitive technology, such as gasbags made from sewing together millions of cows' stomachs. The book emphasised to me how vulnerable the ships were in bad weather.
I originally got this book from the library. Tried to buy a copy recently but it's only on sale for £150, £180... it was a good book but not that good.
I originally got this book from the library. Tried to buy a copy recently but it's only on sale for £150, £180... it was a good book but not that good.
The Hypno-Toad said:
Tango13 said:
If you can find a copy of James Gilberts book 'The World's Worst Aircraft' he talks about the failing of the R100 & R101
I have that book and the section on the R100/R101 is an amazing story. "I am the Minister of Aviation and I say the R101 is ready to fly to India,"
"Well, we're the people who have built it and we say it isn't safe to fly it round the block,"
"You don't understand. I am the Minister of Aviation but I would really like my next job to be the Governor Of India, so I say that it is,"
"I really wouldn't"
"Pah!"
"Where are we?"
"France"
"What's that burning smell? And why's that field coming up so fast?"
The R100 team bought theirs from the Zeppelin company.
Might have R101/R100 arse about face but you get the gist.
Granadier said:
Some years (decades) ago I read Sir Peter Masefield's book 'To Ride The Storm' about the R.101, though it also covers the R.100 and earlier British airships quite a lot. Fascinating stuff. The 1930s luxury airships had an almost Space Age image of modernity and yet actually relied on some pretty primitive technology, such as gasbags made from sewing together millions of cows' stomachs. The book emphasised to me how vulnerable the ships were in bad weather.
I originally got this book from the library. Tried to buy a copy recently but it's only on sale for £150, £180... it was a good book but not that good.
There is a Cautionary Tales podcast by Tim Harford that references this book. I haven’t read the book, but I enjoyed the way Tim Harford tells the story.I originally got this book from the library. Tried to buy a copy recently but it's only on sale for £150, £180... it was a good book but not that good.
https://timharford.com/2019/11/cautionary-tales-ep...
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