Post amazingly cool pictures of aircraft (Volume 1)

[tdm34ds]

Eric Mc said:

It's ironic that the Russian Tu-95 Bear, such a symbol of the Cold War and still in use today, is a direct descendant of the Bull and, by definition, the B-29.

Eric that picture is amazing, oozing presence

[bertie]

[Eric Mc]

You couldn't get a better example of the different approaches to engineering as carried out by the Americans compared to the Russians.

The Bear is a lineal descendant of a reverse engineered Boeing product.

The B-52 IS a Boeing product, but owes precious little to the B-29.

The Americans tend to throw old technology away and start afresh each time. The Russians tweak old and reliable technology on an ongoing basis.

[FourWheelDrift]

I've always liked the airliner version of the Bear, the Tu-114 Rossiya, officially the worlds fastest prop airliner, max speed 541mph (as fast as a Boeing 737) and one of the best safety records for an airliner. Only one accident due to pilot error when hitting a mound of snow on take off.

[Matt172]

FourWheelDrift said:

I've always liked the airliner version of the Bear, the Tu-114 Rossiya, officially the worlds fastest prop airliner, max speed 541mph (as fast as a Boeing 737) and one of the best safety records for an airliner. Only one accident due to pilot error when hitting a mound of snow on take off.

is that the one at the Monino aviation museum?

[perdu]

Idle git type question here

I see that TU-B29 thingy has swept wings and the massive contra rotating turboprops, was it a b--tardised Bear wing I wonder

Obviously they needed a further back CofG for the Rotodome, that would have helped wouldn't it.

Are there any plan view shots of it anywhere

I havent seen any myself, but I used to love tracing this sort of image

Purrups I ought to get out and look...

OH WOW forget the first part they arent contra rotaters...

Edited by perdu on Friday 24th July 14:28

[Matt172]

perdu said:

Are there any plan view shots of it anywhere

line drawing plan view

[FourWheelDrift]

Matt172 said:

Is that the one at the Monino aviation museum?

Yes, there were only about 30 built as well. The one that was at Moscow airport on display has been recently scrapped, not sure how many are still around now.

[dr_gn]

perdu said:

Idle git type question here


OH WOW forget the first part they arent contra rotaters...

Edited by perdu on Friday 24th July 14:28

Nor does it have swept wings.

[Mr Dave]

perdu said:

Are there any plan view shots of it anywhere

It is on google earth, if you find out at which museum it is at then looking for that, think its just outside Beijing, remember seeing it once.

On another note, the Bear used to play tricks on Jaguars when they were ever intercepted by them. Slow all teh way down so the Jag was just about able to go that slowly without stalling, then open the throttles and leave the Jaguar behind. Was told that by a Tornado driver who used to be on Jaguars. Apparently could hear the Bear from inside the Jag as well.

Anyway at least no Jaguar pilots ever built airfix kits while on a long ferry flight...

[HereBeMonsters]

Eric Mc said:

It's ironic that the Russian Tu-95 Bear, such a symbol of the Cold War and still in use today, is a direct descendant of the Bull and, by definition, the B-29.

That is just an evil bd looking thing of a plane. Awesome.

[Talksteer]

Mr Dave said:

perdu said:

Are there any plan view shots of it anywhere

It is on google earth, if you find out at which museum it is at then looking for that, think its just outside Beijing, remember seeing it once.

On another note, the Bear used to play tricks on Jaguars when they were ever intercepted by them. Slow all teh way down so the Jag was just about able to go that slowly without stalling, then open the throttles and leave the Jaguar behind. Was told that by a Tornado driver who used to be on Jaguars. Apparently could hear the Bear from inside the Jag as well.

Anyway at least no Jaguar pilots ever built airfix kits while on a long ferry flight...

I have heard that one before and in theory a Turbo prop might be able to out accelerate a turbofan powered aircraft particularly one at the edge of stall. I would however be very surprised if it would out distance even a Jaguar for very long at all, the version I had heard was that the Jaguar's were forced to engage afterburner to keep up.

Personally I am a little surprised, while I am aware that an RAF Jaguar plot may not have been particularly heavily trained in ACM I would have thought that one of the basics would be how to follow somebody flying slower than you by weaving or corkscrewing.

[Mr_B]

Has this one been done already ? There's too many pages to go back and look at...

[perdu]

dr_gn said:

perdu said:

Idle git type question here


OH WOW forget the first part they arent contra rotaters...

Edited by perdu on Friday 24th July 14:28

Nor does it have swept wings.

could be, except the shadow thrown looks mildly swept in planform to me

the rotodome has a shadow directly under it but the wingtips look to be a few degrees swept

Thanks for the Bear drawings, wasnt what I meant but its good to see there are a few decent drawings around

cheers anyway

bill

[perdu]

Did we ever use Jaguars on QRA?

even with overwing AIM9s it would hardly be the kit for the job would it

can I blame Gordon Brown if we did?

[PAUL. S]

I think that photo was taken between the maintenance hangers at Raf St Athan

I used to work for a building maintenance company there in the 80s and have seen Jaguars go through there in the opposite direction with all the fitters out to watch it, then barrel roll over the Bristol Channel before heading back to their home base after a major refit - was a fantastic sight

Fabric 2.2 said:

jimpritchard said:

Heres my little contribution....

Can't remember which site I found it on, but the history behind the pic is, that was a senior pilots final flight, bound for Leuchars. Although apparently he managed to dislodge some poor chap repairing one of the hangar roofs, propably from the fright alone, never mind the pressure, chap broke a few bones. Pilot was immediately ordered back to base and "discharged". Worth it though Apparently the pic was taken by a colleague who didn't believe he'd actually have the balls to do it, was pre planned as his last flight through!

[dr_gn]

perdu said:

dr_gn said:

perdu said:

Idle git type question here


OH WOW forget the first part they arent contra rotaters...

Edited by perdu on Friday 24th July 14:28

Nor does it have swept wings.

could be, except the shadow thrown looks mildly swept in planform to me

the rotodome has a shadow directly under it but the wingtips look to be a few degrees swept

Thanks for the Bear drawings, wasnt what I meant but its good to see there are a few decent drawings around

cheers anyway

bill

Bill,

I think this is a plan view of one from Google Earth:



Looks fairly similar to a B-29 planform.

Cheers,

[perdu]

dr_gn said:

perdu said:

dr_gn said:

perdu said:

Idle git type question here


OH WOW forget the first part they arent contra rotaters...

Edited by perdu on Friday 24th July 14:28

Nor does it have swept wings.

could be, except the shadow thrown looks mildly swept in planform to me

the rotodome has a shadow directly under it but the wingtips look to be a few degrees swept

Thanks for the Bear drawings, wasnt what I meant but its good to see there are a few decent drawings around

cheers anyway

bill

Bill,

I think this is a plan view of one from Google Earth:



Looks fairly similar to a B-29 planform.

Cheers,

yes it does! from the vertical helps put it in (out of) perspective... still a basic B29 wing then cheers

[dr_gn]

perdu said:

dr_gn said:

perdu said:

dr_gn said:

perdu said:

Idle git type question here


OH WOW forget the first part they arent contra rotaters...

Edited by perdu on Friday 24th July 14:28

Nor does it have swept wings.

could be, except the shadow thrown looks mildly swept in planform to me

the rotodome has a shadow directly under it but the wingtips look to be a few degrees swept

Thanks for the Bear drawings, wasnt what I meant but its good to see there are a few decent drawings around

cheers anyway

bill

Bill,

I think this is a plan view of one from Google Earth:



Looks fairly similar to a B-29 planform.

Cheers,

yes it does! from the vertical helps put it in (out of) perspective... still a basic B29 wing then cheers

Might make a good model conversion for you Bill?

Cheers,

[dr_gn]

Eric Mc said:

You couldn't get a better example of the different approaches to engineering as carried out by the Americans compared to the Russians.

The Bear is a lineal descendant of a reverse engineered Boeing product.

The B-52 IS a Boeing product, but owes precious little to the B-29.

The Americans tend to throw old technology away and start afresh each time. The Russians tweak old and reliable technology on an ongoing basis.

I'd disagree with that Eric: Seems to me like a very progressive design evolution from, say B-29 to B-52 (you could easily go further back than the B-29 with this timeline):

1942 Boeing B-29 - Straight Wing, 4 Piston Engines.

1945 Boeing B-50 - More powerful version of above with detail changes.

1946 Convair B-36 - Shallow Swept Wing, 6 Piston Engines, 4 Jet Engines.

1947 Boeing B-47 - True Swept Wing, 6 Jet Engines.

1952 Boeing B-52 - True Swept Wing, 8 Jet Engines.

Progressive performance increase also. These examples don't even include the myriad development aircraft that never made service. Dates are approximate first flights, development obviously started several years before.

Similarly with the USSR (approx 1946 - 52):

The Tu-4 (B-29 copy)
Tu-80
Tu-85
Tu-16 "Badger"
not to mention the Myasishchev projects which led to the "Bison",
then the Tu-95 "Bear"

Way more development increments than the Americans for the same time period.

I'd say that the Tu-95 and B-52 are both almost as different from the B-29. The props are an obvious similarity (but driven by gas turbines rather than piston engines don't forget), but that's about it. The Badger and Bison have jet engines, but predate the Tu-95, so it's not as if the Russians hadn't got the technology for jet bombers - perhaps not as well developed, but 'bear' in mind the Bison had similar performance to the B-52 in terms of speed...

Cheers,

Edited by dr_gn on Friday 24th July 23:05