Two nuclear subs collide in Atlantic

[rhinochopig]

Chainguy said:

Mate, unless things have changed hugely from the 90's when I was in, we couldn't deploy all out boats at once. We neither have the crews to do so, nor would they all be ready, in engineering terms (my old trade) to go to sea at the same time.

You'd get two hulls out, and thats it. No way 4.

As for the comment on sonar signatures, well, the V boats, using the propulsor (we dont use props any more) is a seriously quiet piece of kit. World class, and then some. When she's tooling around at 4 knots, use of the word 'undetectable' is not hyperbole.

Nothing has changed.

[Famous Graham]

We've had planes, satellites and now subs.

What's next? Trains?

[Chainguy]

rhinochopig said:

Chainguy said:

Mate, unless things have changed hugely from the 90's when I was in, we couldn't deploy all out boats at once. We neither have the crews to do so, nor would they all be ready, in engineering terms (my old trade) to go to sea at the same time.

You'd get two hulls out, and thats it. No way 4.

As for the comment on sonar signatures, well, the V boats, using the propulsor (we dont use props any more) is a seriously quiet piece of kit. World class, and then some. When she's tooling around at 4 knots, use of the word 'undetectable' is not hyperbole.

Nothing has changed.

Thanks, didn't think it would have done.

[Jasandjules]

Woops..

I didn't know the Subs went in for suicide attacks...

[Nic Jones]

Didn't the Kursk sink because an American Sub sailed into it? (Although the yanks denied it and then when said submarine immediately went into dry dock for repair they wouldn't let the Ruskies have a look at it )

And then when the Kursk fired a torpedo the yanks thought they were firing at them so promptly sent one back which exploded in the torpedo room.

I watched a documentary on it last week, apparently it happens quite regularly.

[wadgebeast]

Chainguy said:

Mate, unless things have changed hugely from the 90's when I was in, we couldn't deploy all out boats at once. We neither have the crews to do so, nor would they all be ready, in engineering terms (my old trade) to go to sea at the same time.

You'd get two hulls out, and thats it. No way 4.

As for the comment on sonar signatures, well, the V boats, using the propulsor (we dont use props any more) is a seriously quiet piece of kit. World class, and then some. When she's tooling around at 4 knots, use of the word 'undetectable' is not hyperbole.

What he says! 1 boat always being refitted, 1 working up, the other 2 alternating patrols with 2 crews per boat.

There's no way they'd have active sonar on. They wouldn't play war games with each other either. The SOPs when you hear activity on a bomber is to turn tail and v slowly and quietly bimble off in the other direction. This collision just sounds like sheer bad luck - what are the chances of 2 nuclear subs being in the same spot at the same depth in the middle of the ocean?

[mel]

You really wouldn't want to be on the relief boat that has just taken over, bearing in mind there's one boat in refit & going no where for months, one just coming out of refit and several months away from being operational, another one is now fooked, the poor sods out there right now will have no return date and could well be looking at 4-6 months underwater ......

As for how it happened I'd say it's similar to the 2 satellites that hit each other, we don't tell the french where we are, they don't tell us, ever, under any circumstances, I can't really see that they were "playing with each other" that's simply not the bomber way they would have tried to creep away in the opposite direction at any sign of anything they don't play games and leave that to the SSN's, I honestly think it's pure accident ih a growded ocean.

[Chainguy]

Nic Jones said:

Didn't the Kursk sink because an American Sub sailed into it? (Although the yanks denied it and then when said submarine immediately went into dry dock for repair they wouldn't let the Ruskies have a look at it )

And then when the Kursk fired a torpedo the yanks thought they were firing at them so promptly sent one back which exploded in the torpedo room.

I watched a documentary on it last week, apparently it happens quite regularly.

Riiiiiight.....err, no.

[rhinochopig]

Chainguy said:

rhinochopig said:

Chainguy said:

Mate, unless things have changed hugely from the 90's when I was in, we couldn't deploy all out boats at once. We neither have the crews to do so, nor would they all be ready, in engineering terms (my old trade) to go to sea at the same time.

You'd get two hulls out, and thats it. No way 4.

As for the comment on sonar signatures, well, the V boats, using the propulsor (we dont use props any more) is a seriously quiet piece of kit. World class, and then some. When she's tooling around at 4 knots, use of the word 'undetectable' is not hyperbole.

Nothing has changed.

Thanks, didn't think it would have done.

I tell you what, you're a braver man than me having gone to sea on them.

I was up at Vulcan a couple of weeks ago doing some work, and being 6'5" just didn't fit in a submarine hull - especially aft in the lower levels. I don't get claustrophobic, but I have to say a combination of the heat, noise, low deck head, and the thought that you could have several hundred metres of water above you, really really didn't appeal. Bonkers the lot of them!

[fullbeem]

Capt. Vasili Borodin: Torpedo impact, 20 seconds.
Captain Ramius: [to Ryan] What books?
Jack Ryan: Pardon me?
Captain Ramius: What books did you write?
Jack Ryan: I wrote a biography of, of Admiral Halsey, called "The Fighting Sailor", about, uh, naval combat tactics...
Captain Ramius: I know this book!
Capt. Vasili Borodin: Torpedo impact...
Captain Ramius: Your conclusions were all wrong, Ryan...
Capt. Vasili Borodin: ...10 seconds.
Captain Ramius: ...Halsey acted stupidly.

[wadgebeast]

Nic Jones said:

Didn't the Kursk sink because an American Sub sailed into it? (Although the yanks denied it and then when said submarine immediately went into dry dock for repair they wouldn't let the Ruskies have a look at it )

And then when the Kursk fired a torpedo the yanks thought they were firing at them so promptly sent one back which exploded in the torpedo room.

I watched a documentary on it last week, apparently it happens quite regularly.

Kursk sank because they've got some very very unstable torpedoes. They evaporate the water in front of them by sending out a bolt of superheated material, allowing the torpedo to travel effectively in a vacuum at ridiculously high speeds. One of the torpedoes exploded onboard.


Sad thing is, if one of our boats sank at that depth, most of our submariners could have escaped with relatively few injuries. The Russians don't train for it though.

[Chainguy]

rhinochopig said:

Chainguy said:

rhinochopig said:

Chainguy said:

Mate, unless things have changed hugely from the 90's when I was in, we couldn't deploy all out boats at once. We neither have the crews to do so, nor would they all be ready, in engineering terms (my old trade) to go to sea at the same time.

You'd get two hulls out, and thats it. No way 4.

As for the comment on sonar signatures, well, the V boats, using the propulsor (we dont use props any more) is a seriously quiet piece of kit. World class, and then some. When she's tooling around at 4 knots, use of the word 'undetectable' is not hyperbole.

Nothing has changed.

Thanks, didn't think it would have done.

I tell you what, you're a braver man than me having gone to sea on them.

I was up at Vulcan a couple of weeks ago doing some work, and being 6'5" just didn't fit in a submarine hull - especially aft in the lower levels. I don't get claustrophobic, but I have to say a combination of the heat, noise, low deck head, and the thought that you could have several hundred metres of water above you, really really didn't appeal. Bonkers the lot of them!

You get used to it. Well, you dont, you just adjust your mentality to suit. Probably why when I left I ended up being a chopper pilot.

I started out on S-Boats, those were even more cramped aft than the V's. As for the state of them, well, think 'Mark 2 Escorts of the seas' and your not far off.

Still a happy time of my life though. Don't regret a moment of it.

[fullbeem]

More apt to this article however is this

Seaman Jones: Conn, sonar! Crazy Ivan!
Capt. Bart Mancuso: All stop! Quick quiet!
[the ships engines are shut down completely]
Beaumont: What's goin' on?
Seaman Jones: Russian captains sometime turn suddenly to see if anyone's behind them. We call it "Crazy Ivan." The only thing you can do is go dead. Shut everything down and make like a hole in the water.
Beaumont: So what's the catch?
Seaman Jones: The catch is, a boat this big doesn't exactly stop on a dime... and if we're too close, we'll drift right into the back of him.

[Nic Jones]

Chainguy said:

Nic Jones said:

Didn't the Kursk sink because an American Sub sailed into it? (Although the yanks denied it and then when said submarine immediately went into dry dock for repair they wouldn't let the Ruskies have a look at it )

And then when the Kursk fired a torpedo the yanks thought they were firing at them so promptly sent one back which exploded in the torpedo room.

I watched a documentary on it last week, apparently it happens quite regularly.

Riiiiiight.....err, no.

Nice response, care to elaborate...

If that's aimed at my 'apparently it happens quite regularly' comment I meant about the Subs stalking each other, there were 2 Subs American Subs in the vicinity of the Kursk when she was doing the tests, the first (apparently) collided with her causing the superficial damage. Then the second moved in to cover the first as it left and fired the Torpedo.

When the Kursk was raised there was a hole in the side of her which curved inwards which measured the approximate size of the American Torpedo iirc.

It was on one of the Documentary channels last week, and telly doesn't lie. FACT... I think

[rhinochopig]

Nic Jones said:

Didn't the Kursk sink because an American Sub sailed into it? (Although the yanks denied it and then when said submarine immediately went into dry dock for repair they wouldn't let the Ruskies have a look at it )

And then when the Kursk fired a torpedo the yanks thought they were firing at them so promptly sent one back which exploded in the torpedo room.

I watched a documentary on it last week, apparently it happens quite regularly.

You're right. I saw the same documentary. Just before she went down, the kursk had been tracking a contact that was doing 200 knots+ before it hit them. I recall the rescue operation used a re-tasked deep sea drilling platform, and there was some rumour that navy seals had been dispatched too.

[paoloh]

Nic Jones said:

Didn't the Kursk sink because an American Sub sailed into it? (Although the yanks denied it and then when said submarine immediately went into dry dock for repair they wouldn't let the Ruskies have a look at it )

And then when the Kursk fired a torpedo the yanks thought they were firing at them so promptly sent one back which exploded in the torpedo room.

I watched a documentary on it last week, apparently it happens quite regularly.

I'd ask your Dr to alter your medication.

[Nic Jones]

rhinochopig said:

Nic Jones said:

Didn't the Kursk sink because an American Sub sailed into it? (Although the yanks denied it and then when said submarine immediately went into dry dock for repair they wouldn't let the Ruskies have a look at it )

And then when the Kursk fired a torpedo the yanks thought they were firing at them so promptly sent one back which exploded in the torpedo room.

I watched a documentary on it last week, apparently it happens quite regularly.

You're right. I saw the same documentary. Just before she went down, the kursk had been tracking a contact that was doing 200 knots+ before it hit them. I recall the rescue operation used a re-tasked deep sea drilling platform, and there was some rumour that navy seals had been dispatched too.

And didn't the crew say something over the radio like "they've hit us..." as one of their last transmissions?

[Badgerboy]

I believe the US had a couple of SSBN's that had given each other a 'nudge' after playing silly buggers with each other. I'll see if I can dig out the report on it, I think they were LA class a few years back. The rules that they are supposed to follow, and what they actually do probably get bent every now and then. If you were the captain of the French boat, and you'd picked up the Brit, you'd probably want to try and track it for a little while if not for the kudos, but for the practise. I imagine you don't get to get close to a Vanguard much. The Brit could have quite easily not have known anyone was there until the cheese was coming through the bulkhead.

[Nic Jones]

paoloh said:

Nic Jones said:

Didn't the Kursk sink because an American Sub sailed into it? (Although the yanks denied it and then when said submarine immediately went into dry dock for repair they wouldn't let the Ruskies have a look at it )

And then when the Kursk fired a torpedo the yanks thought they were firing at them so promptly sent one back which exploded in the torpedo room.

I watched a documentary on it last week, apparently it happens quite regularly.

I'd ask your Dr to alter your medication.

I'd ask your Dr to prescribe you a brain to use before posting, I'm not making it up, see rhinochopig's post.

[rhinochopig]

Chainguy said:

rhinochopig said:

Chainguy said:

rhinochopig said:

Chainguy said:

Mate, unless things have changed hugely from the 90's when I was in, we couldn't deploy all out boats at once. We neither have the crews to do so, nor would they all be ready, in engineering terms (my old trade) to go to sea at the same time.

You'd get two hulls out, and thats it. No way 4.

As for the comment on sonar signatures, well, the V boats, using the propulsor (we dont use props any more) is a seriously quiet piece of kit. World class, and then some. When she's tooling around at 4 knots, use of the word 'undetectable' is not hyperbole.

Nothing has changed.

Thanks, didn't think it would have done.

I tell you what, you're a braver man than me having gone to sea on them.

I was up at Vulcan a couple of weeks ago doing some work, and being 6'5" just didn't fit in a submarine hull - especially aft in the lower levels. I don't get claustrophobic, but I have to say a combination of the heat, noise, low deck head, and the thought that you could have several hundred metres of water above you, really really didn't appeal. Bonkers the lot of them!

You get used to it. Well, you dont, you just adjust your mentality to suit. Probably why when I left I ended up being a chopper pilot.

I started out on S-Boats, those were even more cramped aft than the V's. As for the state of them, well, think 'Mark 2 Escorts of the seas' and your not far off.

Still a happy time of my life though. Don't regret a moment of it.

Did you ever come across any of the following?

Don Cooper
Ivan Lomax
Malcom Bishop

I used to work with them when I was at R-R.