Aircraft and turning off your 'electronic devices'
Discussion
The testing for EMC susceptability to aircraft components is immense, and incredibly stringent. If an aircraft electrical system can cope with a lighting strike (another thing they are tested for) they they can cope with a mobile phone... Yes a mobile may ring through onto a microphone it may be heard, but it won't break anything. Any avionics are specifically designed not to fail when exposed to such low-level RF.
There are two reasons why mobiles are banned on planes - one is the simple fact that you will annoy other passengers, and in a confined space that is never a good idea, and the second is so you are fully attentive to the aircraft crew. Statisically you are most likely to be in an airline accident are take off or landing - that is why you're not allowed headphones or large heavy objects such as laptops in open cabin space. If you've got headphones on the crew cannot get you to hit the brace position...
Whilst there is a minor risk from EMC emissions, but its these that are the critical factors. If it was a problem then there'd be a hell of a lot of plane crashes.
As for the window blinds being up, that's just so you can see the ground moving relative to you so you are less likely to be sick...
There are two reasons why mobiles are banned on planes - one is the simple fact that you will annoy other passengers, and in a confined space that is never a good idea, and the second is so you are fully attentive to the aircraft crew. Statisically you are most likely to be in an airline accident are take off or landing - that is why you're not allowed headphones or large heavy objects such as laptops in open cabin space. If you've got headphones on the crew cannot get you to hit the brace position...
Whilst there is a minor risk from EMC emissions, but its these that are the critical factors. If it was a problem then there'd be a hell of a lot of plane crashes.
As for the window blinds being up, that's just so you can see the ground moving relative to you so you are less likely to be sick...
from the CAA.
The use of mobile phones on board aircraft by flight crew, cabin crew and passengers presents a source of uncontrolled electro-magnetic radiation with a risk of adverse interference effects to required aircraft systems including those used for communications and navigation.
In recognising that no equipment may be installed or operated on an aircraft until it has been proven to be safe, the use of mobile phones on board aircraft in flight is operationally prohibited.
This prohibition normally commences once all of the aircraft doors are closed upon departure, until they are reopened again upon arrival.
Recent Developments:
Ofcom recently agreed (March 2008) to allow airlines to offer mobile phone services on aircraft flying within UK Airspace, as long as such services are only operated when the aircraft is more than 3000m above the ground. A number of other national and international telecommunication regulatory bodies are considering the same position.
Airlines wishing to offer such services must still satisfy the appropriate airworthiness requirements and prove that use of mobile phones and the equipment installed to enable the service cannot cause adverse interference to required aircraft equipment. Airlines will also need to develop operating procedures preventing any significant increase in crew workload.
On aircraft equipped with such systems, mobile phone use will only be permitted during the cruise phase of flight, recognising the telecommunication operating height restriction and to ensure the aircraft cabin is secure for takeoff and landing.
Other Services:
Some airlines already offered the facility to make telephone calls from your seat using installed handsets. These calls are made using equipment that is normally part of the onboard entertainment system, the call being made through a hard-wired link in the aircraft system to a dedicated antenna on the aircraft exterior. This approach prevents interference with required aircraft systems.
I'll follow this advice thanks and to anyone who wants to try and use a phone in flight, expect to be met by friendly people in blue uniforms on arrival.
The use of mobile phones on board aircraft by flight crew, cabin crew and passengers presents a source of uncontrolled electro-magnetic radiation with a risk of adverse interference effects to required aircraft systems including those used for communications and navigation.
In recognising that no equipment may be installed or operated on an aircraft until it has been proven to be safe, the use of mobile phones on board aircraft in flight is operationally prohibited.
This prohibition normally commences once all of the aircraft doors are closed upon departure, until they are reopened again upon arrival.
Recent Developments:
Ofcom recently agreed (March 2008) to allow airlines to offer mobile phone services on aircraft flying within UK Airspace, as long as such services are only operated when the aircraft is more than 3000m above the ground. A number of other national and international telecommunication regulatory bodies are considering the same position.
Airlines wishing to offer such services must still satisfy the appropriate airworthiness requirements and prove that use of mobile phones and the equipment installed to enable the service cannot cause adverse interference to required aircraft equipment. Airlines will also need to develop operating procedures preventing any significant increase in crew workload.
On aircraft equipped with such systems, mobile phone use will only be permitted during the cruise phase of flight, recognising the telecommunication operating height restriction and to ensure the aircraft cabin is secure for takeoff and landing.
Other Services:
Some airlines already offered the facility to make telephone calls from your seat using installed handsets. These calls are made using equipment that is normally part of the onboard entertainment system, the call being made through a hard-wired link in the aircraft system to a dedicated antenna on the aircraft exterior. This approach prevents interference with required aircraft systems.
I'll follow this advice thanks and to anyone who wants to try and use a phone in flight, expect to be met by friendly people in blue uniforms on arrival.
VxDuncan said:
The testing for EMC susceptability to aircraft components is immense, and incredibly stringent. If an aircraft electrical system can cope with a lighting strike (another thing they are tested for) they they can cope with a mobile phone... Yes a mobile may ring through onto a microphone it may be heard, but it won't break anything. Any avionics are specifically designed not to fail when exposed to such low-level RF.
There are two reasons why mobiles are banned on planes - one is the simple fact that you will annoy other passengers, and in a confined space that is never a good idea, and the second is so you are fully attentive to the aircraft crew. Statisically you are most likely to be in an airline accident are take off or landing - that is why you're not allowed headphones or large heavy objects such as laptops in open cabin space. If you've got headphones on the crew cannot get you to hit the brace position...
Whilst there is a minor risk from EMC emissions, but its these that are the critical factors. If it was a problem then there'd be a hell of a lot of plane crashes.
As for the window blinds being up, that's just so you can see the ground moving relative to you so you are less likely to be sick...
yep! I couldn't be bothered typing it all out again so I've linked the previous thread on this subject.There are two reasons why mobiles are banned on planes - one is the simple fact that you will annoy other passengers, and in a confined space that is never a good idea, and the second is so you are fully attentive to the aircraft crew. Statisically you are most likely to be in an airline accident are take off or landing - that is why you're not allowed headphones or large heavy objects such as laptops in open cabin space. If you've got headphones on the crew cannot get you to hit the brace position...
Whilst there is a minor risk from EMC emissions, but its these that are the critical factors. If it was a problem then there'd be a hell of a lot of plane crashes.
As for the window blinds being up, that's just so you can see the ground moving relative to you so you are less likely to be sick...
ian in lancs said:
...and as I recall, that one ended with the hanging question - so, do you think I (or any other pilot) am (or is) simply imagining the manifest and frequently experienced comms interference from mobile phones....a question you have, until now ducked.So....do you?
Note, I'm resisting the urge to use the term "Punk".
Stuff the technical debate. I fly planes. I don't want the slightest risk of any interference with any system thanks to someone ringing home and saying "guess where I am?"
The fact is, that despite all the argument and tests nobody will turn round and say that there is no risk to any systems.
Especially when you consider that many aircraft in use today aren't the latest and greatest things with shiny new wiring.
If any engineer would like to sign their licence number across a piece of paper that states that there is no danger using mobiles on board an aircraft, then I might consider their opinion, but since they wonn't, I'll keep my and my passengers backsides in one piece by not having phones in use.
Do a risk/benefit analysis on it. The chances of a jet with up to 400 people smearing itself in a fiery ball across the ground versus waiting 20 minutes to make a call..................Hmmmmm, what do you reckon!
The fact is, that despite all the argument and tests nobody will turn round and say that there is no risk to any systems.
Especially when you consider that many aircraft in use today aren't the latest and greatest things with shiny new wiring.
If any engineer would like to sign their licence number across a piece of paper that states that there is no danger using mobiles on board an aircraft, then I might consider their opinion, but since they wonn't, I'll keep my and my passengers backsides in one piece by not having phones in use.
Do a risk/benefit analysis on it. The chances of a jet with up to 400 people smearing itself in a fiery ball across the ground versus waiting 20 minutes to make a call..................Hmmmmm, what do you reckon!
collateral said:
IforB said:
I wouldn't want to try that in anything designed by Airbus though.
What's the reason for all the Airbus hatred? The whole fly by wire thing?IforB said:
Dunno about that, that's tin foil hat territory to be honest.
True. I think the theory was that the planes travel too quickly for the GSM cells to get the signal, so any 'call' couldn't possibly have happened. Think it's an interesting one because I have enough problems getting a signal when I'm on a train, let alone a tin can in the sky doing mach 0.8...then again I do have a pretty crap phone!
IforB said:
collateral said:
IforB said:
I wouldn't want to try that in anything designed by Airbus though.
What's the reason for all the Airbus hatred? The whole fly by wire thing?eharding said:
ian in lancs said:
...and as I recall, that one ended with the hanging question - so, do you think I (or any other pilot) am (or is) simply imagining the manifest and frequently experienced comms interference from mobile phones....a question you have, until now ducked.So....do you?
Note, I'm resisting the urge to use the term "Punk".
ETA
Anyway, I'm happy to turn my mobi off. I can't stand them being used on trains etc. Long may the ban continue!
Edited by ian in lancs on Saturday 21st February 23:41
eharding said:
IforB said:
collateral said:
IforB said:
I wouldn't want to try that in anything designed by Airbus though.
What's the reason for all the Airbus hatred? The whole fly by wire thing?ian in lancs said:
eharding said:
ian in lancs said:
...and as I recall, that one ended with the hanging question - so, do you think I (or any other pilot) am (or is) simply imagining the manifest and frequently experienced comms interference from mobile phones....a question you have, until now ducked.So....do you?
Note, I'm resisting the urge to use the term "Punk".
SiTheBad said:
Antony Moxey said:
I quite like the idea of having everything switched off. Are people really that dependent that they can't do without their phone or laptop for a couple of hours.
Perish the thought of the day mobiles are allowed to be used all the time, imagine how much fun that's going to be sat next to someone with one clamped to their ear for the duration of the flight.
Too late I'm afraid! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5298332.stmPerish the thought of the day mobiles are allowed to be used all the time, imagine how much fun that's going to be sat next to someone with one clamped to their ear for the duration of the flight.
"And allow terrorists to detonate explosives they've put in their luggage? No thanks. I'll stick to more secure airlines. Mike G, London, UK"
Ribol said:
SiTheBad said:
Antony Moxey said:
I quite like the idea of having everything switched off. Are people really that dependent that they can't do without their phone or laptop for a couple of hours.
Perish the thought of the day mobiles are allowed to be used all the time, imagine how much fun that's going to be sat next to someone with one clamped to their ear for the duration of the flight.
Too late I'm afraid! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5298332.stmPerish the thought of the day mobiles are allowed to be used all the time, imagine how much fun that's going to be sat next to someone with one clamped to their ear for the duration of the flight.
"And allow terrorists to detonate explosives they've put in their luggage? No thanks. I'll stick to more secure airlines. Mike G, London, UK"
Rhubarb!
collateral said:
Ribol said:
SiTheBad said:
Antony Moxey said:
I quite like the idea of having everything switched off. Are people really that dependent that they can't do without their phone or laptop for a couple of hours.
Perish the thought of the day mobiles are allowed to be used all the time, imagine how much fun that's going to be sat next to someone with one clamped to their ear for the duration of the flight.
Too late I'm afraid! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5298332.stmPerish the thought of the day mobiles are allowed to be used all the time, imagine how much fun that's going to be sat next to someone with one clamped to their ear for the duration of the flight.
"And allow terrorists to detonate explosives they've put in their luggage? No thanks. I'll stick to more secure airlines. Mike G, London, UK"
Rhubarb!
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