Post Amazingly Cool Pictures Of Ships or Boats!

[PushedDover]

Cut n Shut

[DeltonaS]

Sleipnir and Thialf for the first time together in Rotterdam:

[PushedDover]

Yeah saw that- expensive day for HMC.
Not sure I would have been ‘advertising’ that!!

[DeltonaS]

Who's advertising what ?

You can't really hide them in the back of a shed.

Edited by DeltonaS on Tuesday 8th December 11:29

[Condi]

PushedDover said:

Yeah saw that- expensive day for HMC.
Not sure I would have been ‘advertising’ that!!

?

[PushedDover]

Condi said:

PushedDover said:

Yeah saw that- expensive day for HMC.
Not sure I would have been ‘advertising’ that!!

?

HMC - expensive day

Any day or photo with a vessel not working, not loading is normally expensive for the owner

I used to loath the firm showing our vessels ‘sailing’ not Working

[Condi]

PushedDover said:

HMC - expensive day

Any day or photo with a vessel not working, not loading is normally expensive for the owner

I used to loath the firm showing our vessels ‘sailing’ not Working

That is their base. It's not unexpected that they'll be there together occasionally.

[PushedDover]

Condi said:

PushedDover said:

HMC - expensive day

Any day or photo with a vessel not working, not loading is normally expensive for the owner

I used to loath the firm showing our vessels ‘sailing’ not Working

That is their base. It's not unexpected that they'll be there together occasionally.

I would say not - a 'base' is not really a thing in the good days for a HLV. mob/demob of a vessel happens anywhere, not a base. The cost of tramping to the home port in itself suggests it's got nowhere else to go yet. Every day at base it is definitely not earning or paying its way.
Hereema, Saipem, both struggling in the down turn and both making a belligerent arse of their transition to offshore wind.

Anyway this is not a thread for the discussions - but pictures :

[DeltonaS]

PushedDover said:

I would say not - a 'base' is not really a thing in the good days for a HLV. mob/demob of a vessel happens anywhere, not a base. The cost of tramping to the home port in itself suggests it's got nowhere else to go yet. Every day at base it is definitely not earning or paying its way.
Hereema, Saipem, both struggling in the down turn and both making a belligerent arse of their transition to offshore wind.

Well not really,

First of all both All Seas (owner Edward Heerema, brother of the owner of HMC) and HMC themselves have a lot work this comming decade in dismantling (and partly replacing) gas/oil paltforms just in the North Sea alone. All Seas even have a larger Pioneering Spirit on the drawing board.

Secondly Thialf currently is in for maintenance. Sleipnir worked on the offshore windfarm just of the coast of the NL these past months. Wind farms in general will generate more work as well.

https://www.swzmaritime.nl/news/2020/09/08/heerema...

https://www.swzmaritime.nl/news/2020/12/08/heerema...

Crane vessel Thialf arrived next to the Sleipnir at the Landtong Rozenburg on Saturday 5 December. The semi-submersible crane ship is in the Netherlands for maintenance.

The two ships have had permanent moorings at the Calandkanaal, which serves as a base for jobs on the North Sea, for decades. They are estimated to lie there between ten and twenty per cent of the time and are then usually prepared for the next project.

With Thialf, Heerema Marine Contractors recently dismantled seven gas production platforms off the east coast of Nova Scotia. The client for the dismantling work was ExxonMobil Canada. After a few months, the Thialf will return to the North Sea to dismantle a drilling platform.

Edited by DeltonaS on Tuesday 8th December 23:24

[PushedDover]

Well away of the above thanks
Also have on my desk the SOW for Arcadia OST project etc.
Not sure why you need to mention the brothers but the point remains that whopping vessels like this built and costed against day rates and forecast revenue at the time of inception of circa €250k a day, sat at harbour (and even their own harbour), not on contract, will be costing someone a lot of money in lost revenue

Pics ?

[XJSJohn]

PushedDover said:

Yeah saw that- expensive day for HMC.
Not sure I would have been ‘advertising’ that!!

What is teh day rate on one of these things anyway out of curiosity?

[PushedDover]

XJSJohn said:

PushedDover said:

Yeah saw that- expensive day for HMC.
Not sure I would have been ‘advertising’ that!!

What is teh day rate on one of these things anyway out of curiosity?

'back in the day' we used to say the S7000 was £1m mob / demob, and £250k a day.

Now ? I hear of vessel day rates well under £100k a day. And scraping anything they can (often as a sledgehammer to crack a walnut)
IMHO their opportunities for work have narrowed massively and are dinosaurs.
The business model must be very hazardous - especially the fuel burn on the old tonnage. I would reckon a hotel load alone for the vessels would so 15Te a day, before even raising the stick and the power required. Old nasty engines too....

[DeltonaS]

PushedDover said:

XJSJohn said:

PushedDover said:

Yeah saw that- expensive day for HMC.
Not sure I would have been ‘advertising’ that!!

What is teh day rate on one of these things anyway out of curiosity?

'back in the day' we used to say the S7000 was £1m mob / demob, and £250k a day.

Now ? I hear of vessel day rates well under £100k a day. And scraping anything they can (often as a sledgehammer to crack a walnut)
IMHO their opportunities for work have narrowed massively and are dinosaurs.
The business model must be very hazardous - especially the fuel burn on the old tonnage. I would reckon a hotel load alone for the vessels would so 15Te a day, before even raising the stick and the power required. Old nasty engines too....

Lot's of odd remarks again,

I'm not in the business but I know the oil and gas industry always had a volatile nature. However this comming decade lot's of North Sea oil platforms will be decomissioned/replaced and lot's of wind farms erected, let alone the business in Asia, the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico. All Seas doens't invest 3,5bn Euro in a vessel (with an even bigger one to come) if there isn't a demand for it. And that's exactly why they've built it. It's the only vessel capable of carrying oil platforms.

And as a very recent example of these "dinosaurs" being a "sledgehammer to crack a walnut":
https://www.offshore-energy.biz/heeremas-sleipnir-...

Concerning the "old nasty engines" bit; Sleipnir is brand new and runs on LNG:
https://hmc.heerema.com/about/sustainability/sleip...

Plus they're investing in a 20MW shore power project in Rotterdam, so Sleipnir, Thialf and Aegir can be fully electrically operated in the near future. The project is scheduled for completion in Q1 2021.
https://www.swzmaritime.nl/news/2019/11/04/shorepo...

Edited by DeltonaS on Wednesday 9th December 12:39

[PushedDover]

DeltonaS said:

Lot's of odd remarks again,

I'm not in the business but I know the oil and gas industry always had a volatile nature. However this comming decade lot's of North Sea oil platforms will be decomissioned/replaced and lot's of wind farms erected, let alone the business in Asia, the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico. All Seas doens't invest 3,5bn Euro in a vessel (with an even bigger one to come) if there isn't a demand for it. And that's exactly why they've built it. It's the only vessel capable of carrying oil platforms.

And as another very recent example of these "dinosaurs" being a "sledgehammer to crack a walnut"
https://www.offshore-energy.biz/heeremas-sleipnir-...

Concerning the "old nast engines" bit; Sleipnir is brand new and runs on LNG:
https://hmc.heerema.com/about/sustainability/sleip...

Plus they are investing in a 20MW shore power project in Rotterdam, so Sleipnir, Thialf and Aegir can be fully electrically operated in the near future. The project is scheduled for completion in Q1 2021.
https://www.swzmaritime.nl/news/2019/11/04/shorepo...

If you say so

Happy to discuss elsewhere though and share my thoughts as I am in the business

[XJSJohn]

PushedDover said:

XJSJohn said:

PushedDover said:

Yeah saw that- expensive day for HMC.
Not sure I would have been ‘advertising’ that!!

What is teh day rate on one of these things anyway out of curiosity?

'back in the day' we used to say the S7000 was £1m mob / demob, and £250k a day.

Now ? I hear of vessel day rates well under £100k a day. And scraping anything they can (often as a sledgehammer to crack a walnut)
IMHO their opportunities for work have narrowed massively and are dinosaurs.
The business model must be very hazardous - especially the fuel burn on the old tonnage. I would reckon a hotel load alone for the vessels would so 15Te a day, before even raising the stick and the power required. Old nasty engines too....

makes sense, so similar ballpark costs to a semi sub platform (which i suppose in essence is what these are)

I have quite a few mates in the sub-sea industry in commercial roles and i hear similar stuff about vessels being scrapped as soon as they need a new lick of paint from them too

[Condi]

PushedDover said:

If you say so

Happy to discuss elsewhere though and share my thoughts as I am in the business

This is a good place for discussion, so which points are wrong?

[DeltonaS]

PushedDover said:

If you say so

Happy to discuss elsewhere though and share my thoughts as I am in the business

No, not if I say so.

That's my point; some of the things you claim are factually wrong, it's on the internet. But nobody here is holding you back to share your knowledge and exprience. On the contrary.

[PushedDover]

DeltonaS said:

No, not if I say so.

That's my point; some of the things you claim are factually wrong, it's on the internet. But nobody here is holding you back to share your knowledge and exprience. On the contrary.

OK, will write later - I only mentioned 'not for here' as the thread is a Sticky for Pictures. "Post Amazingly Cool Pictures Of Ships or Boats!"

Will do my best to expand on the points.

[PushedDover]

DeltonaS said:

Lot's of odd remarks again,

Apologies.

DeltonaS said:

I'm not in the business but I know the oil and gas industry always had a volatile nature. However this comming decade lot's of North Sea oil platforms will be decomissioned/replaced

'Lots?
Can you share with me which actually will be?

Yes, many should / need decommissioning and we have been seeing for the last decade many many presentations, conferences and alike to suggest this.
Mainly by consultant engineer types getting paid a load to study it. And over the last ten years? only a handful have been.
The Owners (oil corps.) are doing all they can to eek out the last use to PREVENT them from decommissioning such is the cost.
Equally so, The big lift ships - take not long to decom a platform. Days.
The S7000 / Thialf were conceived for the installation of the modular units that comprise of a Oil rig. 5- 8'000Te a piece type stuff. Those rigs have been massively compromised, adjusted even, over the years and do not simply 'lift off the same. Nightmare. as is the danger of pollution in the process.
Also the revenues to put them together does not equal the revenue to pull them apart for these vessel.

DeltonaS said:

and lot's of wind farms erected, .

Now, here is my sledgehammer comment. A Crane Vessel with a couple of Hundred accom +, twin 6,000Te + big lumping slow cranes to install windfarms, versus the vessels (WTIV"s) purpose built with slicker cranes that can transit in an out of a port to collect multiple turbines in voyage on deck and assemble them as conceived by the manufacturers - versus the vessel i the picture we are talking about - which can't.
Yes, they can install jackets but the scale and repetition does not suit. A Turbine jacket is circa 1,000te. your vessels are for installing jackets circa 10,000Te.
Yes, they can install heavy topsides, as they were designed for O&G, but the Germans have favoured (badly executed, but irrelevant) floatover installations as became favorable in the O&G for 14,000Te plus topsides, and the number of Offshore Windfarm substation installations is only a handful a year across Europe.

DeltonaS said:

let alone the business in Asia, the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico.

So why are these two parked in Holland? not particularly convenient.

DeltonaS said:

All Seas doens't invest 3,5bn Euro in a vessel (with an even bigger one to come) if there isn't a demand for it. And that's exactly why they've built it. It's the only vessel capable of carrying oil platforms.

Crossing the streams.
The Pioneering spirit is (like the Wind Turbine vessels) designed for a purpose - not hunting to diversify and 'offer' a solution that is not what is ultimately wanted.
The Spirit happens to also be rigged for Pipe-laying with state of the art gear, and has an ability for large integrated deck removal and big jacket pulling. The two in the picture, don't so much for the above reasons.

I was not questioning the Pioneering Spirit btw.

DeltonaS said:

And as a very recent example of these "dinosaurs" being a "sledgehammer to crack a walnut":
https://www.offshore-energy.biz/heeremas-sleipnir-...

Super. It has done a big lift. It is meant to.
It is not meant to tramp all the way home and park up waiting for work.

Sledgehammer comment covered earlier.

DeltonaS said:

Concerning the "old nasty engines" bit; Sleipnir is brand new and runs on LNG:
https://hmc.heerema.com/about/sustainability/sleip...

It 'can' burn LNG yes. it also and most likely burns MGO day to day due to availability of LNG. (cough Green Wash)
If you look to the Thialf, I think you will see it runs on a significantly different spread of powerplant, same for the others of that era.
50Te of fuel a day suit you ?...

DeltonaS said:

Plus they're investing in a 20MW shore power project in Rotterdam, so Sleipnir, Thialf and Aegir can be fully electrically operated in the near future. The project is scheduled for completion in Q1 2021.
https://www.swzmaritime.nl/news/2019/11/04/shorepo...

You realise that is just to run them on the mains when parked?
So they don't burn in excess of 10Te a day when sat there doing nothing but lights on, dishwashers and the like? Its is not to make then 'Electric ships
If they are so busy and active in the territories and doing the bits and bobs you mention, they wont be in Rotterdam that much surely.....?

All just IMHO obvs.

and promise I don't mean to come across arsey. its late, just in from the office after a 14hr day, but knew an answer was due

All in all, the last thing any ship owner wants is for the vessel to be either without freight / cargo on board, or in port.
It is not earning money.
But yet overheads (at a guess I would estimate £20k a day for Thialf, £45k a day for the Sleipnar) continue, ships mortgages, crew, maintenance, fuel etc continue regardless.

Hence : Expensive day. - Outgoings, no incomings.

[PushedDover]

ETA - Sleipnar has sat there since October, and Thialf has spent 2 months steaming to get back 'home' does not indicate heavy demand the world over for them both sadly.

As mentioned above, I know the Thialf has some wind work lined up (bought?) for Baltic soon, but overkill of the those cranes to build only 1,000Te 9MW wind turbines.
I'd add she is probably only there because a floating lift and the soils in the Baltic are stty there, with big leg penetrations for the jack ups, at the top end of the scale of water depths for the current fleet of vessel.

No one in their right mind would use the Thialf / Sleipnar / S7000 for turbine installation where a WTIV can operate instead.
They may get some better opportunities when floating wind gets a hold, but by then the next gen vessels from OHT, Jan du Nul and Deme of efficient floating vessels will give them literally a clean pair of hulls or heels.

Meanwhile lower down the ranks (and price) Seaways are making hay with their Oleg S for the floating foundation installations - despite their recent balls ups and incidents on the Triton Knoll projects.