Anyone fly microlights?

[Sam_68]

I'm thinking about learning to fly one of these things.

My thinking is:

• I'm colourblind, so I'm going to be limited to NPPL and fine-weather flying in the UK anyway, hence the normal limitations of microlights aren't as critical.
• I probably can't afford to buy and run anything fancy by way of a 'proper' plane, so I might as well resign myself to pottering around in fine weather.
• The idea of basic, string-and-canvas type flying technology kind of appeals...

So... has anyone got any advice?

I guess the most basic question is whether to learn on 3-axis or weight-shift; I'm tending toward the former as it's more of a 'proper' aeroplane and would make the transition to NPPL easier, should I choose to progress later, but are there any big advantages to weight-shift types that I need to consider?

How intrusive is the legislation that restricts use? Can you just go out and take off from a suitable field (with permission), when the weather's fine, or are there all sorts of restrictions on flight plans etc? What about maintenance/certification?

Anything to avoid, or any good advice from people with experience?

[andytk]

Sorry I can't be of any help, but I'd like to stick my oar in and add a few questions too.

An airfield near me does a split ownership scheme where you can buy a 10th share of a C42 Ikarus microlight for £4k. Then there's the £70 month fee which covers an hour a month. Any extra hours are a measly £35 (wet!) hour.

The only thing is, the website stipulates that after 4 years you must sell your share back to the flying club for a quid.

How can this be? That means you're paying a grand a year, plus costs and then after 4 years have nothing to show for it.

I'm no genius but I know that a 4 year old Ikarus will be worth something more than nil....

Can anyone who's part of a syndicate ownership scheme shed any light on this? Is the buyback thing a common legal thing?

Cheers

Andy

[LD1Racing]

Microlight flying is awesome. Modern microlights have as good (if not better) performance than many group A aircraft, but without the restrictive legislation. If you have a back garden big enough you can fly from there (I know many farmers who do so).

G-MTGU, a Thruster TST, This is the first microlight I ever flew (aged 14 I think), and one which my old man later flew to the south of France and the Orkneys (though not in the same trip!). He had an auxiliary fuel tank in the passenger seat and a hand pump to transfer fuel as he flew. Also had a tent, sleeping bag and fold-up Brompton bike in there too, so they are practical too.



This is a more modern one, A Jabiru, which will cruise at around 80kts and has a 5 hour endurance



The only real disadvantages are the VFR restrictions, and the lack of luggage space, though the Piper Cherokee we had was generally a passenger or luggage decision anyway, depends how heavy you and your pax are, certainly with a full fuel load.

My old man has a PPL with instrument and night rating, and went back to microlights for the fun factor, I like to think of group A flying as like sitting in a car, you can trim it out, turn on the heater and relax. The microlights (especially the Thruster), are more like riding a bike, more visceral, a bit cheesy maybe, but you really know you're flying in one of those.

[NoelWatson]

Sam_68 said:

I'm thinking about learning to fly one of these things.

My thinking is:

• I'm colourblind, so I'm going to be limited to NPPL and fine-weather flying in the UK anyway, hence the normal limitations of microlights aren't as critical.
• I probably can't afford to buy and run anything fancy by way of a 'proper' plane, so I might as well resign myself to pottering around in fine weather.
• The idea of basic, string-and-canvas type flying technology kind of appeals...

So... has anyone got any advice?

I guess the most basic question is whether to learn on 3-axis or weight-shift; I'm tending toward the former as it's more of a 'proper' aeroplane and would make the transition to NPPL easier, should I choose to progress later, but are there any big advantages to weight-shift types that I need to consider?

How intrusive is the legislation that restricts use? Can you just go out and take off from a suitable field (with permission), when the weather's fine, or are there all sorts of restrictions on flight plans etc? What about maintenance/certification?

Anything to avoid, or any good advice from people with experience?

What about a gyrocopter?

[Sam_68]

NoelWatson said:

What about a gyrocopter?

What are their advantages? STOL capability and ease of storage/trailering if you fold the rotor up, I assume?

Don't they have a fairly iffy safety record, though?

Or is that the idea - trying to get rid of me?

[NoelWatson]

Sam_68 said:

NoelWatson said:

What about a gyrocopter?

What are their advantages? STOL capability and ease of storage/trailering if you fold the rotor up, I assume?

Don't they have a fairly iffy safety record, though?

Or is that the idea - trying to get rid of me?

I am informed the old safety issues have been eliminated with the new models

Old man has just spent two weeks flying this

http://www.rotorsport.flyer.co.uk/page3.html

They are ~50k (for one with dual controls), or you can buy a part package

http://www.flymac.co.uk/index.asp-Q-Page-E-mt-03-a...

[IforB]

andytk said:

Sorry I can't be of any help, but I'd like to stick my oar in and add a few questions too.

An airfield near me does a split ownership scheme where you can buy a 10th share of a C42 Ikarus microlight for £4k. Then there's the £70 month fee which covers an hour a month. Any extra hours are a measly £35 (wet!) hour.

The only thing is, the website stipulates that after 4 years you must sell your share back to the flying club for a quid.

How can this be? That means you're paying a grand a year, plus costs and then after 4 years have nothing to show for it.

I'm no genius but I know that a 4 year old Ikarus will be worth something more than nil....

Can anyone who's part of a syndicate ownership scheme shed any light on this? Is the buyback thing a common legal thing?

Cheers

Andy

Hmm, where is this? Not just south of Glasgow by any chance?

I'll compose a longer reply for the other questions later.

[Ayahuasca]

andytk said:

Sorry I can't be of any help, but I'd like to stick my oar in and add a few questions too.

An airfield near me does a split ownership scheme where you can buy a 10th share of a C42 Ikarus microlight for £4k. Then there's the £70 month fee which covers an hour a month. Any extra hours are a measly £35 (wet!) hour.

The only thing is, the website stipulates that after 4 years you must sell your share back to the flying club for a quid.

How can this be? That means you're paying a grand a year, plus costs and then after 4 years have nothing to show for it.

I'm no genius but I know that a 4 year old Ikarus will be worth something more than nil....

Can anyone who's part of a syndicate ownership scheme shed any light on this? Is the buyback thing a common legal thing?

Cheers

Andy

£40,000 for a microlight? Sod that - surely you can make one yourself! A lawnmower engine, bits of old pram, some lightweight tubing and some plastic sheeting for the wings and you are a magnificent man in your flying machine!

[Sam_68]

NoelWatson said:

I am informed the old safety issues have been eliminated with the new models

Worth some further thought then.

£50K seems a bit steep for something with the functionality of a microlight and only a little higher cruise speed, though, and second hand availability and pricing doesn't look particularly promising?

[Zippee]

Love those Jabirus mentioned above, they're the sort of aircraft you'll pay 40k for though. You can pick up a basic flex-wing for only a couple of thousand!

I started in a flexwing Pegasus a few years ago but had to give up due to lack of time and poor weather when I was available. Seriously thinking about going back but it will be in 3 axis (Thruster etc) due to the slightly more practicle layout.

[Sam_68]

Zippee said:

...but it will be in 3 axis (Thruster etc) due to the slightly more practicle layout.

Could you expand?

This would be nothing more than an occasional weekend toy, so the low cost of a flexwing is appealing, but clearly 3-axis is considered to be a definite step up?

What are the advantages, would you say?

[Zippee]

Possible poor wording from me but what I meant was it's slightly less exposed to the elements, a pax is side by side so no legs akimbo in the seat and it's also a slightly better grounding for moving to full PPL.
Plus no 'jesus bolt' to contemplate about when you're a few thousand feet up

[Merritt]

Try these guys: http://www.flymac.co.uk/index.asp-Q-ItemList-E-gre...

based at Popham & very friendly... they will also buy back your share for a lot more than £1!!

Im a Group A man myself but XXPLOD who posts on here also has a share in the C42/Eurostar with these guys and I can definitely recommend them.

[Lefty Two Drams]

What are the technical differences between a group A aircraft and a microlight/Ultralight?

Is it dimensions/weight/power or something else?

Ta

[Merritt]

Lefty Two Drams said:

What are the technical differences between a group A aircraft and a microlight/Ultralight?

Is it dimensions/weight/power or something else?

Ta

Basically its down to Maximum takeoff weight. Microlights must be under 450Kg all in.. the newest modern microlights made from composites look just light gp A (in some cases better!) and the performance is excellent.

Edit to add that the MTOW for a PA28 180bhp is generally in the region of 1200Kg.

Edited by Merritt on Wednesday 4th November 10:15

[Lefty Two Drams]

Merritt said:

Lefty Two Drams said:

What are the technical differences between a group A aircraft and a microlight/Ultralight?

Is it dimensions/weight/power or something else?

Ta

Basically its down to Maximum takeoff weight. Microlights must be under 450Kg all in.. the newest modern microlights made from composites look just light gp A (in some cases better!) and the performance is excellent.

Edit to add that the MTOW for a PA28 180bhp is generally in the region of 1200Kg.

Edited by Merritt on Wednesday 4th November 10:15

Thanks, daft question but I assume Max takeoff weight is including fuel and pilot/passenger?

[Merritt]

Lefty Two Drams said:

Merritt said:

Lefty Two Drams said:

What are the technical differences between a group A aircraft and a microlight/Ultralight?

Is it dimensions/weight/power or something else?

Ta

Basically its down to Maximum takeoff weight. Microlights must be under 450Kg all in.. the newest modern microlights made from composites look just light gp A (in some cases better!) and the performance is excellent.

Edit to add that the MTOW for a PA28 180bhp is generally in the region of 1200Kg.

Edited by Merritt on Wednesday 4th November 10:15

Thanks, daft question but I assume Max takeoff weight is including fuel and pilot/passenger?

It is indeed.. and in the case of a PA28 can be up to 3 passengers + pilot. When you include fuel in the calculations though, the passengers can't be too large if you want to stick a lot of fuel in.. With the microlights, you have to be careful with weight and balance checks if you are carrying any passengers & you have a lot of fuel on board.

[Lefty Two Drams]

Thanks for the info. What's the dry weight of a typical Jabiru thingy? I'm 100kg so I can imagine only having enough fuel on board for a fast taxi if I had a passenger too

[Merritt]

The UK microlight max empty weight is 268Kg..

Forgot to add, microlights must also have a stall speed <35kts

On the Jabiru - more info here: http://www.sky-craft.co.uk/acatalog/Jabiru_UL-D.ht...

[Lefty Two Drams]

That is awesome, and a beautiful machine to boot.

35mpg...what fuel does it run on? 500 mile range is pretty darn impressive. So is a 115mph cruise. Anywhere in Scotland in under 2 hours is a nice option...

There is a small aero club near my house where light aircraft and microlights operate from.

Hmmmm...