Becoming a pilot (CPL(H)), are my assumptions right?
Discussion
Hi all. This is a long story but I would appreciate any help and advice.
I currently run a small software business with some help from my business partners and it is interesting work, but not really my love. So after I finish what I am doing at the moment and exit I hope to have enough money to pay off debts, mortgage and then have a bit left over to start afresh.
The serial entrepreneur in me is always seeing ways to make money, new opportunities to exploit and new markets to foster. On the other hand, all throughout my childhood I always wanted to fly. Teenage years got in the way of my boyhood dream and I now end up in my early thirties working in IT (oh how I hate that cliché).
My broad brush presumptuous generalisations of the airline industry is that flying planks (see I am learning the lingo) is much more steady eddy, with the usual chartered work plus some VIP stuff. In contrast rotors seems much more varied contract or seasonal work doing rigs, surveys, VIPs, emergency and some more niche jobs. There are “jobs for life” but they are harder to come by. The other thing I have kind of picked up is that rotors are generally paid less than planks.
Working for BA et al doesn’t really appeal, and the whole concept of a job for life fills me with dread. Variety is the spice for my life and has kind of driven me in to starting up my own business. This is why I am thinking rotary is the future.
Is all this true? Any alternative views?
On the assumption I am right
I have been looking at how to get my CPL(H) and it looks like I will go for the integrated course at Cranfield at about £50k + exams. It’s close to home and they seem to know what they are doing. Please correct me if I am wrong!
After £50k I have a CPL(H) and about 170 hours which is rubbish and totally unemployable. So the next step is to get instrument rating right? This bumps the hours up another 50 or so and gets a big tick in a IR box but is about another £15k. Norwich looks like a good place to do this, or Cranfield also runs it I believe.
However, an alternative to IR is to get a flight instructor qualification (about 10 or so?) and work for peanuts teaching PPL(H). This doesn’t really appeal to be honest but needs must. One thought I had was to buy/lease a chopper, set up my own sight seeing / flight instructor business just to get hours under my belt and then sell the chopper on, hopefully not losing out too much money. I am sure there is a business case there! Anyway it is all about the hours as far as I can see.
Finally, my research tells me it would also be beneficial to do a 5 hour turbine conversion and then a 8 hour twin turbine conversion course, probably on a Bell. Good bye £3k more.
So I am 90k+ poorer have my CPL(H), IR, FI, 500+ hours and then get a job. In this job I fly to amazing rotors in amazing places, meeting amazing people and making a good living.
Easy as that right? Anyone done it? Is it worth it? Would you do it again (or for the first time)?
Feel free to burst my bubble!
I currently run a small software business with some help from my business partners and it is interesting work, but not really my love. So after I finish what I am doing at the moment and exit I hope to have enough money to pay off debts, mortgage and then have a bit left over to start afresh.
The serial entrepreneur in me is always seeing ways to make money, new opportunities to exploit and new markets to foster. On the other hand, all throughout my childhood I always wanted to fly. Teenage years got in the way of my boyhood dream and I now end up in my early thirties working in IT (oh how I hate that cliché).
My broad brush presumptuous generalisations of the airline industry is that flying planks (see I am learning the lingo) is much more steady eddy, with the usual chartered work plus some VIP stuff. In contrast rotors seems much more varied contract or seasonal work doing rigs, surveys, VIPs, emergency and some more niche jobs. There are “jobs for life” but they are harder to come by. The other thing I have kind of picked up is that rotors are generally paid less than planks.
Working for BA et al doesn’t really appeal, and the whole concept of a job for life fills me with dread. Variety is the spice for my life and has kind of driven me in to starting up my own business. This is why I am thinking rotary is the future.
Is all this true? Any alternative views?
On the assumption I am right
I have been looking at how to get my CPL(H) and it looks like I will go for the integrated course at Cranfield at about £50k + exams. It’s close to home and they seem to know what they are doing. Please correct me if I am wrong! After £50k I have a CPL(H) and about 170 hours which is rubbish and totally unemployable. So the next step is to get instrument rating right? This bumps the hours up another 50 or so and gets a big tick in a IR box but is about another £15k. Norwich looks like a good place to do this, or Cranfield also runs it I believe.
However, an alternative to IR is to get a flight instructor qualification (about 10 or so?) and work for peanuts teaching PPL(H). This doesn’t really appeal to be honest but needs must. One thought I had was to buy/lease a chopper, set up my own sight seeing / flight instructor business just to get hours under my belt and then sell the chopper on, hopefully not losing out too much money. I am sure there is a business case there! Anyway it is all about the hours as far as I can see.
Finally, my research tells me it would also be beneficial to do a 5 hour turbine conversion and then a 8 hour twin turbine conversion course, probably on a Bell. Good bye £3k more.
So I am 90k+ poorer have my CPL(H), IR, FI, 500+ hours and then get a job. In this job I fly to amazing rotors in amazing places, meeting amazing people and making a good living.
Easy as that right? Anyone done it? Is it worth it? Would you do it again (or for the first time)?
Feel free to burst my bubble!
£15K for a UK instrument rating? Think it's a bit more than that thanks to the twin turbine requirement.
Best place to ask would be on the rotorheads section of pprune. There's plenty of knowledge and experience there.
As for heli flying, simply put it's ace! I fly both fixed and rotary wing and have a CPL(H) and ATPL(A). Planks pay the mortgage, angry palmtrees are for fun.
Rig flying is from all accounts as dull as f/w airline flying, however there is alot more to heli flying than the North Sea.
I would forget the I/R and concentrate on an instructors ticket to build hours and experience. Don't go barreling in and get twin ratings, turbine ratings etc. straight away, do some teaching and once you've got some hours, then do a jetbox rating or something else like it. If you aren't flying them things everyday, then as the rating is only valid for a year, then it's not worth doing it initially or until you get a sniff of some work on one.
Network like hell and get your face known to people who can help. Cabair are alright, but there are better schools out there to be honest. Tigers are good for example.
Don't let anyone convince you that Robbies aren't great little machines, they are superb things if handled properly.
Best place to ask would be on the rotorheads section of pprune. There's plenty of knowledge and experience there.
As for heli flying, simply put it's ace! I fly both fixed and rotary wing and have a CPL(H) and ATPL(A). Planks pay the mortgage, angry palmtrees are for fun.
Rig flying is from all accounts as dull as f/w airline flying, however there is alot more to heli flying than the North Sea.
I would forget the I/R and concentrate on an instructors ticket to build hours and experience. Don't go barreling in and get twin ratings, turbine ratings etc. straight away, do some teaching and once you've got some hours, then do a jetbox rating or something else like it. If you aren't flying them things everyday, then as the rating is only valid for a year, then it's not worth doing it initially or until you get a sniff of some work on one.
Network like hell and get your face known to people who can help. Cabair are alright, but there are better schools out there to be honest. Tigers are good for example.
Don't let anyone convince you that Robbies aren't great little machines, they are superb things if handled properly.
Hi there,
Breaking into Rotary is considerably harder than breaking into fixed wing. This is primarily because there are fewer aircraft out there, and therefore less jobs.
On top of this rotary is over twice the price to learn than fixed wing, so you have to ask yourself (as I'm sure you have) - is it worth that much investment for something that is incredibly hard to get in to? I fly with a number of ex-rotary guys, who've converted to fixed wing as there are just not the jobs out there. Gone are the days in aviation, where you get a job for life.
As for the FI rating over the IR rating, there's no comparison really. FI rating will help you boost your hours, but no one will take you on commercially without an IR. Without this, you're restricted to VFR/non-airways which can be restrictive if you're out to earn a few bob, or earn the big cash flying jet-engined choppers around. Add to this, the wealth of suitably qualified and trained ex-military guys who are all coming out of the forces with a huge amount of turbine hours compared to yourself.
Sightseeing in choppers is few and far between, unless you're in London, and then you're gonna be in direct competetion with the very people that trained you and private charter firms with a lot of cash behind them. No one's gonna want to hire a chopper to go viewing the local area, when they can get it at least 50pc cheaper in a fixed wing aircraft, and probably get to take a mate along also . . .
Your post just concerns me as you're gonna be hemorrhaging huge amounts of cash for a licence and the odd rating at some sasuage factory flight school like Cabair, who'll be all nice and smiley til they've got your money, and not give a monkey's about assisting with locating work afterwards.
The aviation industry is taking a big hit at the moment and you should ask yourself who would likely take you on as an employee in the current market and with your experience. On top of this, if you go the FI route, you mention it's not great pay, but also who the hell wants to learn to fly helicopers right now? It's a huge extravagance at the best of times, so I'd be surprised if there were many folk through the door regarding this . . .
I'm not rotary, but I'd be very careful before signing on the dotted line on this. Check out www.pprune.com and go to the Rotorheads section. There's plenty of advice on there, some good, some terrible (and probably written by a 12 year old), but most should give you a better idea as to how to approach this.
Regardless of fixed wing or rotary, get yourself a medical! Can't emphasise this enough. If you're not fit to fly, you'll have pi$$ed a lot of cash up the wall.
All the best
Breaking into Rotary is considerably harder than breaking into fixed wing. This is primarily because there are fewer aircraft out there, and therefore less jobs.
On top of this rotary is over twice the price to learn than fixed wing, so you have to ask yourself (as I'm sure you have) - is it worth that much investment for something that is incredibly hard to get in to? I fly with a number of ex-rotary guys, who've converted to fixed wing as there are just not the jobs out there. Gone are the days in aviation, where you get a job for life.
As for the FI rating over the IR rating, there's no comparison really. FI rating will help you boost your hours, but no one will take you on commercially without an IR. Without this, you're restricted to VFR/non-airways which can be restrictive if you're out to earn a few bob, or earn the big cash flying jet-engined choppers around. Add to this, the wealth of suitably qualified and trained ex-military guys who are all coming out of the forces with a huge amount of turbine hours compared to yourself.
Sightseeing in choppers is few and far between, unless you're in London, and then you're gonna be in direct competetion with the very people that trained you and private charter firms with a lot of cash behind them. No one's gonna want to hire a chopper to go viewing the local area, when they can get it at least 50pc cheaper in a fixed wing aircraft, and probably get to take a mate along also . . .
Your post just concerns me as you're gonna be hemorrhaging huge amounts of cash for a licence and the odd rating at some sasuage factory flight school like Cabair, who'll be all nice and smiley til they've got your money, and not give a monkey's about assisting with locating work afterwards.
The aviation industry is taking a big hit at the moment and you should ask yourself who would likely take you on as an employee in the current market and with your experience. On top of this, if you go the FI route, you mention it's not great pay, but also who the hell wants to learn to fly helicopers right now? It's a huge extravagance at the best of times, so I'd be surprised if there were many folk through the door regarding this . . .
I'm not rotary, but I'd be very careful before signing on the dotted line on this. Check out www.pprune.com and go to the Rotorheads section. There's plenty of advice on there, some good, some terrible (and probably written by a 12 year old), but most should give you a better idea as to how to approach this.
Regardless of fixed wing or rotary, get yourself a medical! Can't emphasise this enough. If you're not fit to fly, you'll have pi$$ed a lot of cash up the wall.
All the best
TBH I don't think you need to worry about working for "BA et al" as in your mid thirties with no experience, you're actually probably too old to get into most of the airlines.
My lot has loads of ex helicopter pilots. Most are ex forces bods and most helicopter jobs like SAR, police, air ambulance etc are filled by people leaving the forces with lots of low level flying experience. We have a few Bristow North Sea guys also but most left because the money was poor and conditions not as good as being in an airline.
We also have lots of airline pilots going into helicopter flying on their days off just for fun, with many becoming instructors to pay for their flying even though it's just a hobby for them. They don't need the work but are becoming helicopter instructors just for kicks.
I'm not trying to pi$$ on your chips but in your mid thirties and having shelled out north of £100,000 before you are employable you'll be fighting against guys like these for your first job and you with nil experience. You have to have a realistic idea where you're going to find work at the end of it all.
Flying is a bit like this though.It's not really a job that people fall into. Most pilots these days take out huge loans with absolutely no guarantee of work at the end of it. You have to be very highly motivated to get through all the exams and then get a job.
If you make it, I expect you will absolutely love it.
My lot has loads of ex helicopter pilots. Most are ex forces bods and most helicopter jobs like SAR, police, air ambulance etc are filled by people leaving the forces with lots of low level flying experience. We have a few Bristow North Sea guys also but most left because the money was poor and conditions not as good as being in an airline.
We also have lots of airline pilots going into helicopter flying on their days off just for fun, with many becoming instructors to pay for their flying even though it's just a hobby for them. They don't need the work but are becoming helicopter instructors just for kicks.
I'm not trying to pi$$ on your chips but in your mid thirties and having shelled out north of £100,000 before you are employable you'll be fighting against guys like these for your first job and you with nil experience. You have to have a realistic idea where you're going to find work at the end of it all.
Flying is a bit like this though.It's not really a job that people fall into. Most pilots these days take out huge loans with absolutely no guarantee of work at the end of it. You have to be very highly motivated to get through all the exams and then get a job.
If you make it, I expect you will absolutely love it.
Edited by el stovey on Thursday 2nd July 21:36
Don't worry too much about an IR unless you want to fly two-pilot stuff. Think oil rigs or high-end charter with S-76s and the like.
If you've got the commitment to get a CPL(H) and ideally a type rating on a turbine type (Twin Squirrel for example), an approach to the likes of CHC or Bristow may even result in them paying for the instrument rating, albeit with some sort of training bond to follow if that's the direction you want to go. Keep in mind if you do want to do the high-end stuff, you can't hold a command with a CPL(H). You will need the ATPL(H) which arrives after 1500 flying hours and an LPC (Licence Proficiency Check).
Otherwise, look at smaller operators and probably doing some instructing and air taxi type stuff.
Can't help more than that I'm afraid. My wings are fixed.
If you've got the commitment to get a CPL(H) and ideally a type rating on a turbine type (Twin Squirrel for example), an approach to the likes of CHC or Bristow may even result in them paying for the instrument rating, albeit with some sort of training bond to follow if that's the direction you want to go. Keep in mind if you do want to do the high-end stuff, you can't hold a command with a CPL(H). You will need the ATPL(H) which arrives after 1500 flying hours and an LPC (Licence Proficiency Check).
Otherwise, look at smaller operators and probably doing some instructing and air taxi type stuff.
Can't help more than that I'm afraid. My wings are fixed.
Edited by JW911 on Thursday 2nd July 21:32
Some great replies there, thanks for the advice. Some mixed opinions on the IR/FI argument! I dont have to make the decision for a while yet. I will check out Tigers training as well, thanks again.
Is anyone here fly roters commercially? I would be interested in hearing what you do and they types of jobs you get.
Is anyone here fly roters commercially? I would be interested in hearing what you do and they types of jobs you get.
Thurbs said:
Some great replies there, thanks for the advice. Some mixed opinions on the IR/FI argument! I dont have to make the decision for a while yet. I will check out Tigers training as well, thanks again.
Is anyone here fly roters commercially? I would be interested in hearing what you do and they types of jobs you get.
I believe Chainguy may be the one to ask - he'd probably be quite good with nuclear problems too as I gather he was an RN engineer on subs before becoming a commercial pilot.Is anyone here fly roters commercially? I would be interested in hearing what you do and they types of jobs you get.
Some people are far too talented (although I'm sure some hard work is involved)
Edited by Taffer on Friday 3rd July 18:29
Thurbs said:
Some great replies there, thanks for the advice. Some mixed opinions on the IR/FI argument! I dont have to make the decision for a while yet. I will check out Tigers training as well, thanks again.
Is anyone here fly roters commercially? I would be interested in hearing what you do and they types of jobs you get.
Ask 5 pilots for an opinion and you'll get 10 different ones!Is anyone here fly roters commercially? I would be interested in hearing what you do and they types of jobs you get.
I have done a bit of commercial heli work, but I'm in no way shape or form an experienced helicopter pilot. Most of my stuff was just ad-hoc passenger charter and occasional pipeline survey work in a Jetranger. Wonderful fun though. Highly recommended!
Makes airline flying seem as dull as ditch water.
Edited by IforB on Friday 3rd July 23:17
el stovey said:
TBH I don't think you need to worry about working for "BA et al" as in your mid thirties with no experience, you're actually probably too old to get into most of the airlines.
Read pprune, there's numerous realy stories of people in their late 30s early 40s who have started with 0 flying experience and are now First Officers 4/5 years later.Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff