RR Merlin Engines

[Mr_B]

Just out of interest, who rebuilds these for all the Spitfire, Hurricane, P-51 and others, and what parts are available ? I mean, can is someone casting new blocks, heads and cranks etc ?

[RizzoTheRat]

There were a whole load "found" in a hanger in Spain some years ago, they'd kept a load of new ones in storage for years. Think the MoD bought one/some as spare for the blower rig at Boscombe that used 4 of them to power a wind tunnel.

[whitechief]

Terry Hoyle has re-built some.

http://www.racecar.co.uk/terryhoyle/engines.html

[Sam_68]

There's a company just round the corner from where I live that does them too: link

[MartG]

Don't forget the Meteor tank engine version of the Merlin was still in production as late as 1964 for the Centurion tank, and some of the components would be common between the two so giving another source of spares

[aeropilot]

Sam_68 said:

There's a company just round the corner from where I live that does them too: link

Yes, Retro seems to be the most prominent Merlin specialist in the UK now, with the BBMF engine overhaul contract, but a lot of the UK civvie owned Spits, Hurricane's and P-51 Merlins have been rebuilt by Maurice Hammond at Eye Tech Engineering in Suffolk.
P&A Wood used to do quite a few a few years back, not sure if they are still doing so.
Mike Nixon of Vintage V12's in California is probably one of the best known, and maybe most used these days.

[eccles]

MartG said:

Don't forget the Meteor tank engine version of the Merlin was still in production as late as 1964 for the Centurion tank, and some of the components would be common between the two so giving another source of spares

From what I can gather the only parts you could use in an airworthy engine would be the piston rings and the cylinder liners.

[eharding]

Eric might be able to help, but I'd be interested to know - worldwide - the ratio of ostensibly RR Merlins vs the Packard variety still reciprocating. I'd guess the US outfits probably see a lot more of the Packard variety, but I may be wrong.

I know there was an issue (well, in the CAA's mind it was an issue) to do with US restored engines - something to to with the number of piston rings fitted on a Merlin - the US organisations had found by experience that a different piston ring arrangement gave a better level of wear and reliability - predictably, when these engines were returned to the UK, some troglodyte at the Belgrano looked at the paperwork, decided it didn't tally with some specification drawn up in 1940, and started to raise a bit of a stink - I think in the end he was slapped down, thankfully.

[Ravell]

eccles said:

MartG said:

Don't forget the Meteor tank engine version of the Merlin was still in production as late as 1964 for the Centurion tank, and some of the components would be common between the two so giving another source of spares

From what I can gather the only parts you could use in an airworthy engine would be the piston rings and the cylinder liners.

I've seen parts of the crank case of a meteor engine being used to patch up a hole in a merlin engine from a trown rod. There's a company in the lake distric that resores them. They have a website, but I can't remember the name.

[aeropilot]

eharding said:

Eric might be able to help, but I'd be interested to know - worldwide - the ratio of ostensibly RR Merlins vs the Packard variety still reciprocating. I'd guess the US outfits probably see a lot more of the Packard variety, but I may be wrong.

Remember, not all UK made Merlins were made by RR, about a 1/3 of the 112,000 odd made were made by Ford Mo Co in Manchester.

Packard made about 37,000 of the V-1650 in the USA, so in therory the UK made engines outnumbered the US made by about 4:1. However, there does appear to be a healthy number of Packard examples still flying, although, most current airworthy engines seem be of the post-war 'Transport' variety, which were the most developed, reliable and have a greater tbo rating.

[Total loss]

Ravell said:

eccles said:

MartG said:

Don't forget the Meteor tank engine version of the Merlin was still in production as late as 1964 for the Centurion tank, and some of the components would be common between the two so giving another source of spares

From what I can gather the only parts you could use in an airworthy engine would be the piston rings and the cylinder liners.

I've seen parts of the crank case of a meteor engine being used to patch up a hole in a merlin engine from a trown rod. There's a company in the lake distric that resores them. They have a website, but I can't remember the name.

I think thats Merlin Pete, AFAIK he only rebuilds them for ground running only, its a completely different kettle of fish for them to be legal to fly.

[Total loss]

aeropilot said:

eharding said:

Eric might be able to help, but I'd be interested to know - worldwide - the ratio of ostensibly RR Merlins vs the Packard variety still reciprocating. I'd guess the US outfits probably see a lot more of the Packard variety, but I may be wrong.

Remember, not all UK made Merlins were made by RR, about a 1/3 of the 112,000 odd made were made by Ford Mo Co in Manchester.

Packard made about 37,000 of the V-1650 in the USA, so in therory the UK made engines outnumbered the US made by about 4:1. However, there does appear to be a healthy number of Packard examples still flying, although, most current airworthy engines seem be of the post-war 'Transport' variety, which were the most developed, reliable and have a greater tbo rating.

Rover took over production/design in about 1942 when they swapped the Whittle jet engine with RR for the Meteor.
I think the Meteor tank version was purely a Rover development.

EDIT to correct thanks to Eric

Edited by Total loss on Sunday 13th December 17:06

[Eric Mc]

Really?

Are you saying that all British Merlins after 1942 were actually Rover Merlins?

I know that Rover did do a deal with RR when they fell out with Whittle but I didn't think it meant the transfer of Merlin production.

[Total loss]

Eric Mc said:

Really?

Are you saying that all British Merlins after 1942 were actually Rover Merlins?

I know that Rover did do a deal with RR when they fell out with Whittle but I didn't think it meant the transfer of Merlin production.

Sorry ,I should have read it back , Meteors not Merlins
All Meteors built after the swap were Rovers.

Edited by Total loss on Sunday 13th December 17:15

[tegwin]

RR still make parts for the legacy engines.... I believe they produced a batch of Merlin camshafts a few years ago..... took them nearly 3 years from order to completion due to various issues.....

[aeropilot]

Total loss said:

aeropilot said:

eharding said:

Eric might be able to help, but I'd be interested to know - worldwide - the ratio of ostensibly RR Merlins vs the Packard variety still reciprocating. I'd guess the US outfits probably see a lot more of the Packard variety, but I may be wrong.

Remember, not all UK made Merlins were made by RR, about a 1/3 of the 112,000 odd made were made by Ford Mo Co in Manchester.

Packard made about 37,000 of the V-1650 in the USA, so in therory the UK made engines outnumbered the US made by about 4:1. However, there does appear to be a healthy number of Packard examples still flying, although, most current airworthy engines seem be of the post-war 'Transport' variety, which were the most developed, reliable and have a greater tbo rating.

Rover took over production/design in about 1942 when they swapped the Whittle jet engine with RR for the Meteor.
I think the Meteor tank version was purely a Rover development.

EDIT to correct thanks to Eric

I was taling about the Merlin aero engines, not the Meteor tank engines produced by Rover.

[S3_Graham]

last time i spoke to the RR guys that look after their Observation Spit,

I could of sworn they did theirs in house, Because they were speaking about another spit they were getting ready for flight they were talking about their engine being in the shop...

That could of meant it was elsewhere mind...

[Eric Mc]

S3_Graham said:

last time i spoke to the RR guys that look after their Observation Spit,

I could of sworn they did theirs in house, Because they were speaking about another spit they were getting ready for flight they were talking about their engine being in the shop...

That could of meant it was elsewhere mind...

It's a Spitfre PR.XIX. The PR stands for Photo Reconnaissance.

[richw_82]

S3_Graham said:

last time i spoke to the RR guys that look after their Observation Spit,

I could of sworn they did theirs in house, Because they were speaking about another spit they were getting ready for flight they were talking about their engine being in the shop...

That could of meant it was elsewhere mind...

They do rebuild their own Griffons for the PR XIX. They also have one built up for the XIV, but that's at Bristol with the rest of it the last I heard.

[Eric Mc]

Yes - I forgot to mention that the PR.XIX and Mk XIV are Griffon powwered - not Merlin powered.