New Chinooks... Why a 4 year wait?
Discussion
Great news that the armed forces are getting the new (much needed) Helicopters
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8413135.stm
but... why does it take 4 years to get them into theatre... I can understand that there is a waiting list, but could they not purchase 2nd hand kit from somewhere?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8413135.stm
but... why does it take 4 years to get them into theatre... I can understand that there is a waiting list, but could they not purchase 2nd hand kit from somewhere?
Eric Mc said:
Aircraft of this sophistication are rarely bought "off the shelf". They will need certain aspects of the on board kit to be campatible with the Chinooks al;ready in service with the RAF for a start.
Whilst your probably right Eric, do they really need to be so sophisticated, why not just build gun/transport ones for starters, get them in service, then think about it.Does the enemy we are fighting have all this hi tech stuff? I doubt it.
Vipers said:
Eric Mc said:
Aircraft of this sophistication are rarely bought "off the shelf". They will need certain aspects of the on board kit to be campatible with the Chinooks al;ready in service with the RAF for a start.
Whilst your probably right Eric, do they really need to be so sophisticated, why not just build gun/transport ones for starters, get them in service, then think about it.Does the enemy we are fighting have all this hi tech stuff? I doubt it.
It's not just a "sophistication" issue, it's a compatibility issue to make syure they can be used alongside the current equipment.
thatone1967 said:
but could they not purchase 2nd hand kit from somewhere?
Where do you suggest.....?Most of the current operaters of the type are beating the hell out of their existing fleet in Afgan already
These should have been ordered years ago....but the Govt have been saying we have enough helo's......funny how they've now finally had to admit to lying and had to order some more ...... too little too late as always
aeropilot said:
thatone1967 said:
but could they not purchase 2nd hand kit from somewhere?
Where do you suggest.....?Most of the current operaters of the type are beating the hell out of their existing fleet in Afgan already
These should have been ordered years ago....but the Govt have been saying we have enough helo's......funny how they've now finally had to admit to lying and had to order some more ...... too little too late as always
)
It's all a big con by the Government, give them 22 new Chinooks and it looks like we are supporting our troops in Afghanistan, when in fact they will be into service too late. They should be there now.
What is worse is the Nimrod is being retired early with the MRA4 intorduction being delayed which is scandelous.
This leaves us with no long range Anti sub warfare platform and worse, no long range SAR co-ordination platform either.
Just pray there is no plane ditching or a ship sinking or evacuation of an oil rig a couple of hundred miles of the coast in the next few years as there will be no on the scene aircraft to co-ordinate the rescue!!!
What is worse is the Nimrod is being retired early with the MRA4 intorduction being delayed which is scandelous.
This leaves us with no long range Anti sub warfare platform and worse, no long range SAR co-ordination platform either.
Just pray there is no plane ditching or a ship sinking or evacuation of an oil rig a couple of hundred miles of the coast in the next few years as there will be no on the scene aircraft to co-ordinate the rescue!!!
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 15th December 19:10
I really don't see point - the troops will be leaving by then, and the RAF has to lose an airbase and a Harrier squadron to pay for it.
Time and time again it's been shown that politicians can't manage defence, especially Labour ones.
History repeats itself for centuries - in times of peace nobody wants armed forces and it's politically sensitive. Then when war breaks out everybody panics.
This after the Battle of Quiberon Bay in 1759:
'When we did bang Monsieur Conflans
You gave us beef and beer
Now we have nought to eat or drink
For you have nought to fear'
Time and time again it's been shown that politicians can't manage defence, especially Labour ones.
History repeats itself for centuries - in times of peace nobody wants armed forces and it's politically sensitive. Then when war breaks out everybody panics.
This after the Battle of Quiberon Bay in 1759:
'When we did bang Monsieur Conflans
You gave us beef and beer
Now we have nought to eat or drink
For you have nought to fear'
The whole point of it is "Labour spin."
They are playing the "Aren't we the heroes, we are giving our troops exactly what they want" stance when infact we are likely to end up with a hanger full of them in a few years time not being used.
If we are still in Afghanistan in 2012/2013 losing 100+ troops a year then serious questions will need to be asked.
The aircraft will be too late for any use.
Long term, once Afghanistan is won or we leave with our tails between our legs, what are we going to do with a very large transport fleet?
We cannot afford to go to war for many years after this, so we are left with just being a defence nation with a very large number of transport aircraft.
Really Trident needs to be axed, the F-35 you just have the feeling is going to overrun by a large margin and should be canned and the Nimrod MRA4 needs to be pulled into service earlier. By delaying everything and leaving huge capability gaps it is not solving anything. The view by the government is very short term.
They are playing the "Aren't we the heroes, we are giving our troops exactly what they want" stance when infact we are likely to end up with a hanger full of them in a few years time not being used.
If we are still in Afghanistan in 2012/2013 losing 100+ troops a year then serious questions will need to be asked.
The aircraft will be too late for any use.
Long term, once Afghanistan is won or we leave with our tails between our legs, what are we going to do with a very large transport fleet?
We cannot afford to go to war for many years after this, so we are left with just being a defence nation with a very large number of transport aircraft.
Really Trident needs to be axed, the F-35 you just have the feeling is going to overrun by a large margin and should be canned and the Nimrod MRA4 needs to be pulled into service earlier. By delaying everything and leaving huge capability gaps it is not solving anything. The view by the government is very short term.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Damn right, has everyone forgotten that they will be out on their arse next year? they could promise the moon for all it matters. RAF Cottesmore won't close for another 2 years, I doubt Labour will be around then. As John Nichols and others have pointed out, the useless sods should have done this 7 years ago......along with all the other promises they're currently making.Tootles the Taxi said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
...sell it to Israel. Their armed forces always get the best, most up to date kit and enough of it. Also they're quite happy to purchase second, third or fourth hand.Getting back to the thread, one of the main reasons they are taking so long is the fact that everyone wants them....you don't just pitch up at a Chinook dealers with an armful of brochures, take a test flight and leave a deposit (which would be nice!)...it takes time to specify them correctly (witness the Mk3 debacle-ongoing for how many years?) and then to get build slots in a very busy factory.
The rate at which many other nations are flying/crashing/being shot down in their Chinooks gives you the answer you need as to why it's taking so long....a very popular aircraft!
This is just another example of the government, and the MoD to be fair and share the blame around, fecking up the MoD budget. There's no new money, so they're borrowing from the future (by delaying and cutting planned projects) and cutting back in other areas.
All those delayed projects will end up costing more as a result.
So we'll end up spending more cash over all, and end up with a load of helicopters that we don't need. And fate will surely play into this so that just as our nice shiney new helicopters turn up a new crisis happens where we really, really need whatever it is that they delayed/canceled to buy the copters!
All those delayed projects will end up costing more as a result.
So we'll end up spending more cash over all, and end up with a load of helicopters that we don't need. And fate will surely play into this so that just as our nice shiney new helicopters turn up a new crisis happens where we really, really need whatever it is that they delayed/canceled to buy the copters!
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/... here we go again
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