Ice on the tracks - really that serious?
Discussion
My FiL (South African visiting here) asked why the trains stop running in this weather. "Ice on the tracks," was my uninformed reply.
He argues that, given the weight of the trains, he can't see how a layer of ice would be an issue since it should simply be crushed to oblivion. His logic makes sense to my very untechnical mind. Is there something I'm missing here that the PH intellects could enlighten me on?
He argues that, given the weight of the trains, he can't see how a layer of ice would be an issue since it should simply be crushed to oblivion. His logic makes sense to my very untechnical mind. Is there something I'm missing here that the PH intellects could enlighten me on?
Modern trains have disc brakes and lock up very easily in icy conditions and areas of poor adhesion in general (i.e leaf fall areas). There is a type of ABS in place but it's still not ideal in these conditions.
The machines I drive have huge brake blocks that actually make contact with the running surface of the wheels (if that makes sense). We have to do regular running brake tests to clear the icy/snowy build-up on the blocks.
The machines I drive have huge brake blocks that actually make contact with the running surface of the wheels (if that makes sense). We have to do regular running brake tests to clear the icy/snowy build-up on the blocks.
I can understand the ice and the problem with traction in ordinary circumstances (my original argument with the FiL) but he argues that the train has enough weight to simply crush any ice on the track so that there is again direct contact between the wheels and track.
Can there really be enough of a layer of ice between wheels and track to cause a problem?
Can there really be enough of a layer of ice between wheels and track to cause a problem?
Pints said:
I can understand the ice and the problem with traction in ordinary circumstances (my original argument with the FiL) but he argues that the train has enough weight to simply crush any ice on the track so that there is again direct contact between the wheels and track.
Can there really be enough of a layer of ice between wheels and track to cause a problem?
It might well crush, but its not going to go anywhere other than just stay on the tracks/wheels I would have thought, meaning even less traction.Can there really be enough of a layer of ice between wheels and track to cause a problem?
It wont just disappear!
Podie said:
spitfire-ian said:
Lack of traction on ice I would think. Smooth rail, smooth wheel, doesn't take much to cause the wheels to slip.
Yep. Steel on steel... not great for grip at the best of times. Once you've got going, there is the small matter of stopping...
BliarOut said:
Podie said:
spitfire-ian said:
Lack of traction on ice I would think. Smooth rail, smooth wheel, doesn't take much to cause the wheels to slip.
Yep. Steel on steel... not great for grip at the best of times. Once you've got going, there is the small matter of stopping...
She did mention something about air temp being different to rail temp, but it went over my head...
Ice skating works because the weight of an ice skater applied over a very small area momentarily melts the ice to water.
Why can't a 40 gazillion ton train do it then?
If the problem then is 'steel on steel' then it's pretty silly to make both track and wheels out of the stuff, I'd say!
Why can't a 40 gazillion ton train do it then?
If the problem then is 'steel on steel' then it's pretty silly to make both track and wheels out of the stuff, I'd say!
Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 6th January 22:27
Firstly it depends on where the OP was ,it could refer to ice on the third rail on the Southern region,theres hardly any weight in the shoe beam pickup and early morning after a frosty night was always a Sparky time. BR ran night services which sprayed deicer on the 3rd rail,but since privatisation alot of this sort of work has trailed of.As ice is very hard it could derail a train.Also leads to problems in tunnels as water drains through the rock it then freezses on the tunnel roof and walls.
Edited by W124Bob on Thursday 7th January 10:26
useyourdellusion said:
Modern trains have disc brakes and lock up very easily in icy conditions and areas of poor adhesion in general (i.e leaf fall areas). There is a type of ABS in place but it's still not ideal in these conditions.
The machines I drive have huge brake blocks that actually make contact with the running surface of the wheels (if that makes sense). We have to do regular running brake tests to clear the icy/snowy build-up on the blocks.
Wonder if this guy was checking his brakes............The machines I drive have huge brake blocks that actually make contact with the running surface of the wheels (if that makes sense). We have to do regular running brake tests to clear the icy/snowy build-up on the blocks.
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1551...
Simpo Two said:
Ice skating works because the weight of an ice skater applied over a very small area momentarily melts the ice to water.
Why can't a 40 gazillion ton train do it then?
But a skater propels themself forward by pushing outwards and digging the edges of the blade in to the ice, a train doesn't have this luxury!Why can't a 40 gazillion ton train do it then?
Picture a skater just moving their legs backwards and forwards in a straight line, doubt they'd go very far
JB! said:
frozen Switches and Crossings were causing havoc this morning, along with dead rolling stock.
I saw the Michael Portillo train journey thing on BBC2 last night and where he was they used electric heating in the rails to keep points unfrozen, mind you this was the North (Yorkshire) where they still know it gets cold in the winter and aren't using the excuse of global warming to prevent things freezing up.Simple solution isn't it, divert some of the power from the overhead lines to power heating elements in the rails, doesn't have to be much just enough to keep them above freezing.
FourWheelDrift said:
JB! said:
frozen Switches and Crossings were causing havoc this morning, along with dead rolling stock.
I saw the Michael Portillo train journey thing on BBC2 last night and where he was they used electric heating in the rails to keep points unfrozen, mind you this was the North (Yorkshire) where they still know it gets cold in the winter and aren't using the excuse of global warming to prevent things freezing up.Simple solution isn't it, divert some of the power from the overhead lines to power heating elements in the rails, doesn't have to be much just enough to keep them above freezing.
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