Ice on the tracks - really that serious?
Discussion
Simpo Two said:
If the problem then is 'steel on steel' then it's pretty silly to make both track and wheels out of the stuff, I'd say!
So if the wheels are made of something softer, you have to replace them more often... or would you rather replace the rails..?Fair amount of infrastructure to change...
Most S&C is heated, and it works very effectively, it is 3 phase 415v - 110V
Railhead can rust overnight and cause track circuits to fail in a way that they don't see the train, think of your train sat in a station and the protecting signal behind it telling the next train to plough into the back of it.
Snow can get compressed hard into blocks of ice then it freezes harder, we have been out today and nothing short of a sledge hammer / flamethrower would shift it.
Mechanical signal areas have trouble with signals freezing up and failing to operate.
Railhead can rust overnight and cause track circuits to fail in a way that they don't see the train, think of your train sat in a station and the protecting signal behind it telling the next train to plough into the back of it.
Snow can get compressed hard into blocks of ice then it freezes harder, we have been out today and nothing short of a sledge hammer / flamethrower would shift it.
Mechanical signal areas have trouble with signals freezing up and failing to operate.
Here in SE UK, the biggest problem I think is with the third electric rail.
The pickup shoe lifts onto any ice, and the traction current is stopped.
In addition, I think, the pickup shoes are made of carbon and it's fairly soft. When it hits ice frozen to the conductor rail, it breaks the pickup shoe, and eventually there's not enough left to do the job properly.
The pickup shoe lifts onto any ice, and the traction current is stopped.
In addition, I think, the pickup shoes are made of carbon and it's fairly soft. When it hits ice frozen to the conductor rail, it breaks the pickup shoe, and eventually there's not enough left to do the job properly.
bananapieface said:
Most S&C is heated, and it works very effectively, it is 3 phase 415v - 110V
Railhead can rust overnight and cause track circuits to fail in a way that they don't see the train, think of your train sat in a station and the protecting signal behind it telling the next train to plough into the back of it.
Snow can get compressed hard into blocks of ice then it freezes harder, we have been out today and nothing short of a sledge hammer / flamethrower would shift it.
Mechanical signal areas have trouble with signals freezing up and failing to operate.
and those heaters like to fail.Railhead can rust overnight and cause track circuits to fail in a way that they don't see the train, think of your train sat in a station and the protecting signal behind it telling the next train to plough into the back of it.
Snow can get compressed hard into blocks of ice then it freezes harder, we have been out today and nothing short of a sledge hammer / flamethrower would shift it.
Mechanical signal areas have trouble with signals freezing up and failing to operate.
alot.
JB! said:
bananapieface said:
Most S&C is heated, and it works very effectively, it is 3 phase 415v - 110V
Railhead can rust overnight and cause track circuits to fail in a way that they don't see the train, think of your train sat in a station and the protecting signal behind it telling the next train to plough into the back of it.
Snow can get compressed hard into blocks of ice then it freezes harder, we have been out today and nothing short of a sledge hammer / flamethrower would shift it.
Mechanical signal areas have trouble with signals freezing up and failing to operate.
and those heaters like to fail.Railhead can rust overnight and cause track circuits to fail in a way that they don't see the train, think of your train sat in a station and the protecting signal behind it telling the next train to plough into the back of it.
Snow can get compressed hard into blocks of ice then it freezes harder, we have been out today and nothing short of a sledge hammer / flamethrower would shift it.
Mechanical signal areas have trouble with signals freezing up and failing to operate.
alot.
If you saw the BBC South East news last night you'd have seen them trying to get one of the stuck Southern trains on the East Grinstaed line going. Firstly they had to cut away a tree that had come down from the weight of snow, and secondly they swept the snow of the 3rd rail.
What I don't understand is why the rail companies eem to vary so much in their ability to run trains. Southern seem to be doing quite well. They are running an emergency service but it only involves a few cuts. South Easten have slashed their services and have lines suspended and First Capital Connect appear to have packed up and gone home!
What I don't understand is why the rail companies eem to vary so much in their ability to run trains. Southern seem to be doing quite well. They are running an emergency service but it only involves a few cuts. South Easten have slashed their services and have lines suspended and First Capital Connect appear to have packed up and gone home!
spitfire-ian said:
Simpo Two said:
Ice skating works because the weight of an ice skater applied over a very small area momentarily melts the ice to water.
Why can't a 40 gazillion ton train do it then?
But a skater propels themself forward by pushing outwards and digging the edges of the blade in to the ice, a train doesn't have this luxury!Why can't a 40 gazillion ton train do it then?
Picture a skater just moving their legs backwards and forwards in a straight line, doubt they'd go very far
Podie said:
Simpo Two said:
If the problem then is 'steel on steel' then it's pretty silly to make both track and wheels out of the stuff, I'd say!
So if the wheels are made of something softer, you have to replace them more often... or would you rather replace the rails..?Fair amount of infrastructure to change...
Sandite is the key here, magic stuff for traction.
Chrisgr31 said:
If you saw the BBC South East news last night you'd have seen them trying to get one of the stuck Southern trains on the East Grinstaed line going. Firstly they had to cut away a tree that had come down from the weight of snow, and secondly they swept the snow of the 3rd rail.
What I don't understand is why the rail companies eem to vary so much in their ability to run trains. Southern seem to be doing quite well. They are running an emergency service but it only involves a few cuts. South Easten have slashed their services and have lines suspended and First Capital Connect appear to have packed up and gone home!
A couple of things come to mind.What I don't understand is why the rail companies eem to vary so much in their ability to run trains. Southern seem to be doing quite well. They are running an emergency service but it only involves a few cuts. South Easten have slashed their services and have lines suspended and First Capital Connect appear to have packed up and gone home!
The bigger the area of coverage for the company, the more chance they have of not getting one of their trains through. Once a train does not get through, it has a knock on, to another service which would have used that train. The timetable becomes progressively shot.
It probably shouldn't make any difference, but if you get a season ticket you can specify to use only some providers. If you do this, then you can only use a particular train operating company, even if another serves the same route.
The "First Capital Connect service only" season tickets are the cheapest.
Recently the First Capital Connect lot were threatening strike action, so I would imagine there is some militancy going on too.
Edited by dilbert on Friday 8th January 11:09
I can thing of something that does seem to have changed for the better.
As a kid (1980's) I used to travel everywhere by train. In those days, and in the cold, there was the seemingly ever present problem of broken rails in cold weather.
Perhaps it's my imagination, but you don't seem to hear of them these days.
As a kid (1980's) I used to travel everywhere by train. In those days, and in the cold, there was the seemingly ever present problem of broken rails in cold weather.
Perhaps it's my imagination, but you don't seem to hear of them these days.
dilbert said:
I can thing of something that does seem to have changed for the better.
As a kid (1980's) I used to travel everywhere by train. In those days, and in the cold, there was the seemingly ever present problem of broken rails in cold weather.
Perhaps it's my imagination, but you don't seem to hear of them these days.
New Years Day, four years ago. Very cold and frosty, but went a walk with the kids. Our route took us over a local level crossing on the main Aberdeen - Glasgow line. My older son said "look, dad, the rail is broken". Sure enough, just before the crossing was a clear 1-2" break in one of the rails As a kid (1980's) I used to travel everywhere by train. In those days, and in the cold, there was the seemingly ever present problem of broken rails in cold weather.
Perhaps it's my imagination, but you don't seem to hear of them these days.
I phoned up Railtrack right away and reported it. Fortunately, being New Years day in Scotland no trains were running.
[rail geek mode on] Could have been nasty - as the particular section of track wasn't track circuited, there would have been no indication in the signal box of any problem [/rail geek mode off]
Edited by matchmaker on Friday 8th January 12:39
elster said:
Podie said:
Simpo Two said:
If the problem then is 'steel on steel' then it's pretty silly to make both track and wheels out of the stuff, I'd say!
So if the wheels are made of something softer, you have to replace them more often... or would you rather replace the rails..?Fair amount of infrastructure to change...
Sandite is the key here, magic stuff for traction.
Podie said:
elster said:
Podie said:
Simpo Two said:
If the problem then is 'steel on steel' then it's pretty silly to make both track and wheels out of the stuff, I'd say!
So if the wheels are made of something softer, you have to replace them more often... or would you rather replace the rails..?Fair amount of infrastructure to change...
Sandite is the key here, magic stuff for traction.
What kind of a material would work? You would need something that is malleable, but still just as hard wearing.
I've never actually seen a broken rail TBH, but there you have it!
I think the lack of friction is good. It means the train doesn't need much energy to keep moving.
If you really want good grip, then perhaps a rack railway is a good idea. They use 'em for going up really steep slopes.
I think the lack of friction is good. It means the train doesn't need much energy to keep moving.
If you really want good grip, then perhaps a rack railway is a good idea. They use 'em for going up really steep slopes.
Edited by dilbert on Friday 8th January 14:11
dilbert said:
I've never actually seen a broken rail TBH, but there you have it!
Can be very nasty........http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hither_Green_rail_cra...
It's been down to -10degs here in the west mids and I've not experienced any low adhesion due to the cold conditions. A little slipping in freshly fallen snow but no worse than say a light shower of rain.
Our biggest problems are with the BSI couplers freezing up. Even with the snow bags fitted they're frozen.
Our biggest problems are with the BSI couplers freezing up. Even with the snow bags fitted they're frozen.
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