super yachts 60million+

[PushedDover]

Caddyshack said:

loafer123 said:

Caddyshack said:

Who is to say that all Oligarchs (or £60m yacht owners) are bad people, they may be lovely and do a lot of charity work etc....Are the crew to really know all about the boat owner? You certainly cannot say that all rich Russians are bad just because Putin attacks a country.

Sure if they have a secret lab on the boat and are planning to take over the world but I doubt the owners walk about going "I'm well dodgy" when they interview the crew who just want a job at the end of the day.

I think the Venn diagram showing dodgy sts and oligarchs is pretty overlapping, but I suppose it is possible that one of them didn't steal/kill/cheat their way to billions...have you got anyone in mind?

Is it? (the Venn diagram) I do not really know anything about Oligarchs apart from what the media tell us about them...I guess that there has been an anti Oli western slant. I do not know if that is true or not. I understand our take is that Putin helped his buddies out and they grabbed the best industries for themselves.

I have heard a lot about Obramavich. Two people I know have come in to contact with him and both said good things about him - One cut his hair and the other built an Airsoft site for his son and his mates to use and maintained the weapons for him. He is pretty high profile and I have not seen any muck about him in the press but I have not really cared to look for it either. I believe he was very popular at Chelsea and that is the only Oli info I have to go on.

BBC iPlayer of Panorama last week is what you need.....

[Caddyshack]

PushedDover said:

Caddyshack said:

loafer123 said:

Caddyshack said:

Who is to say that all Oligarchs (or £60m yacht owners) are bad people, they may be lovely and do a lot of charity work etc....Are the crew to really know all about the boat owner? You certainly cannot say that all rich Russians are bad just because Putin attacks a country.

Sure if they have a secret lab on the boat and are planning to take over the world but I doubt the owners walk about going "I'm well dodgy" when they interview the crew who just want a job at the end of the day.

I think the Venn diagram showing dodgy sts and oligarchs is pretty overlapping, but I suppose it is possible that one of them didn't steal/kill/cheat their way to billions...have you got anyone in mind?

Is it? (the Venn diagram) I do not really know anything about Oligarchs apart from what the media tell us about them...I guess that there has been an anti Oli western slant. I do not know if that is true or not. I understand our take is that Putin helped his buddies out and they grabbed the best industries for themselves.

I have heard a lot about Obramavich. Two people I know have come in to contact with him and both said good things about him - One cut his hair and the other built an Airsoft site for his son and his mates to use and maintained the weapons for him. He is pretty high profile and I have not seen any muck about him in the press but I have not really cared to look for it either. I believe he was very popular at Chelsea and that is the only Oli info I have to go on.

BBC iPlayer of Panorama last week is what you need.....

I have seen panorama hype up stuff about subjects I do know about and they told a very one sided story based on the narrative they wanted to follow.

[loafer123]

Caddyshack said:

I have seen panorama hype up stuff about subjects I do know about and they told a very one sided story based on the narrative they wanted to follow.

I share your cynicism about Panorama - they are the tabloid journalists of the TV world.

Nevertheless, Russia was basically the Wild West post Yeltsin. Many people stole, many people were killed, many bad things happened. It is barely credible that anyone who made billions during that period had clean hands.

I am sure he is a lovely bloke to his barber. When you are a billionaire you can be as nice as pie. How they get there is another matter althogether.

In a previous role, I refused to do business with some of them. I work on the basis that if you have to get someone to write a report to “prove” you didn’t kill someone, you are probably not the sort of person I want to do business with.

[Davey S2]

The number of Mega Yachts that have either been arrested, seized or have all scarpered to the Maldives or Vladivostok or on their way there is huge and still growing:

Dilbar, Eclipse, Luna, A and Sailing yacht A, Crescent, Axioma, Nord, Sea Rhapsody, Clio, Lady M, Amore Vero, Amadea.

[Bonefish Blues]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60739336

[LimaDelta]

Bonefish Blues said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60739336

Amazing that they are able to knowingly print incorrect information. Isn't there a legal term for that?

[Bas Jaski]

Caddyshack said:

Is it? (the Venn diagram) I do not really know anything about Oligarchs apart from what the media tell us about them...I guess that there has been an anti Oli western slant. I do not know if that is true or not. I understand our take is that Putin helped his buddies out and they grabbed the best industries for themselves.

I have heard a lot about Obramavich. Two people I know have come in to contact with him and both said good things about him - One cut his hair and the other built an Airsoft site for his son and his mates to use and maintained the weapons for him. He is pretty high profile and I have not seen any muck about him in the press but I have not really cared to look for it either. I believe he was very popular at Chelsea and that is the only Oli info I have to go on.

I'm not going to make this post about "all Russian oligarch's are saints" (or even Abramovich), but with the whole corona thing Abramovich was paying the hotel bills for all overworked nurses, so that they also don't need to travel far home etc.


A lot of these guys got (seriously) rich after the break up of the USSR and they grabbed what they could in a time when there were few laws. I guess 90% here standing in their shoes at the time would jump at the opportunity. In the West we only hear one side of the story, and have done for most of our lives. I guess the same goes for Russians. Somewhere in the middle lies the truth to it all.

That said I do think arresting these yachts (and many other toys, bank accounts and so on) are probably the right thing to do to push additional pressure on Putin.

[emicen]

Bas Jaski said:

Caddyshack said:

Is it? (the Venn diagram) I do not really know anything about Oligarchs apart from what the media tell us about them...I guess that there has been an anti Oli western slant. I do not know if that is true or not. I understand our take is that Putin helped his buddies out and they grabbed the best industries for themselves.

I have heard a lot about Obramavich. Two people I know have come in to contact with him and both said good things about him - One cut his hair and the other built an Airsoft site for his son and his mates to use and maintained the weapons for him. He is pretty high profile and I have not seen any muck about him in the press but I have not really cared to look for it either. I believe he was very popular at Chelsea and that is the only Oli info I have to go on.

I'm not going to make this post about "all Russian oligarch's are saints" (or even Abramovich), but with the whole corona thing Abramovich was paying the hotel bills for all overworked nurses, so that they also don't need to travel far home etc.


A lot of these guys got (seriously) rich after the break up of the USSR and they grabbed what they could in a time when there were few laws. I guess 90% here standing in their shoes at the time would jump at the opportunity. In the West we only hear one side of the story, and have done for most of our lives. I guess the same goes for Russians. Somewhere in the middle lies the truth to it all.

That said I do think arresting these yachts (and many other toys, bank accounts and so on) are probably the right thing to do to push additional pressure on Putin.

Abramovic seems to largely be the exception that proves the rule in this respect. Possibly it’s because we’re more exposed to him in the UK media because of his presence over here, but don’t believe any of the rest have people queuing up to defend their character.

Being totally honest, when he wasn’t sanctioned (and the vast majority of the others were) and he started making noises about selling Chelsea, part of me wondered if the higher up ranks in Russia were planning on offing Putin and trying to install Abramovic.

He’s by far the most palatable of the bunch.

[Bas Jaski]

emicen said:

Abramovic seems to largely be the exception that proves the rule in this respect. Possibly it’s because we’re more exposed to him in the UK media because of his presence over here, but don’t believe any of the rest have people queuing up to defend their character.

Being totally honest, when he wasn’t sanctioned (and the vast majority of the others were) and he started making noises about selling Chelsea, part of me wondered if the higher up ranks in Russia were planning on offing Putin and trying to install Abramovic.

He’s by far the most palatable of the bunch.

Agreed on that. FWIW I don't think Melnichenko is a bad guy, either (M/Y A and S/Y A). Still think his boats are fugly, though. 😂

[SpeckledJim]

How about Bernie Madoff? He seemed quite nice. Lovely silvery wavy hair.


These guys are the greatest thieves in history and they've created a gangster state with nukes. Lets not let them off the hook that easily.

[blueg33]

Bas Jaski said:

Caddyshack said:

Is it? (the Venn diagram) I do not really know anything about Oligarchs apart from what the media tell us about them...I guess that there has been an anti Oli western slant. I do not know if that is true or not. I understand our take is that Putin helped his buddies out and they grabbed the best industries for themselves.

I have heard a lot about Obramavich. Two people I know have come in to contact with him and both said good things about him - One cut his hair and the other built an Airsoft site for his son and his mates to use and maintained the weapons for him. He is pretty high profile and I have not seen any muck about him in the press but I have not really cared to look for it either. I believe he was very popular at Chelsea and that is the only Oli info I have to go on.

I'm not going to make this post about "all Russian oligarch's are saints" (or even Abramovich), but with the whole corona thing Abramovich was paying the hotel bills for all overworked nurses, so that they also don't need to travel far home etc.


A lot of these guys got (seriously) rich after the break up of the USSR and they grabbed what they could in a time when there were few laws. I guess 90% here standing in their shoes at the time would jump at the opportunity. In the West we only hear one side of the story, and have done for most of our lives. I guess the same goes for Russians. Somewhere in the middle lies the truth to it all.

That said I do think arresting these yachts (and many other toys, bank accounts and so on) are probably the right thing to do to push additional pressure on Putin.

Last week the BBC did a programme about how Abramovich got his money. In summary, state aided corruption at a massive scale. Sold state assets at a knock down price, sold on for billions shortly after. Funding to buy the asset in the first place was cash transferred by the state to his bank account

[aeropilot]

blueg33 said:

Bas Jaski said:

Caddyshack said:

Is it? (the Venn diagram) I do not really know anything about Oligarchs apart from what the media tell us about them...I guess that there has been an anti Oli western slant. I do not know if that is true or not. I understand our take is that Putin helped his buddies out and they grabbed the best industries for themselves.

I have heard a lot about Obramavich. Two people I know have come in to contact with him and both said good things about him - One cut his hair and the other built an Airsoft site for his son and his mates to use and maintained the weapons for him. He is pretty high profile and I have not seen any muck about him in the press but I have not really cared to look for it either. I believe he was very popular at Chelsea and that is the only Oli info I have to go on.

I'm not going to make this post about "all Russian oligarch's are saints" (or even Abramovich), but with the whole corona thing Abramovich was paying the hotel bills for all overworked nurses, so that they also don't need to travel far home etc.


A lot of these guys got (seriously) rich after the break up of the USSR and they grabbed what they could in a time when there were few laws. I guess 90% here standing in their shoes at the time would jump at the opportunity. In the West we only hear one side of the story, and have done for most of our lives. I guess the same goes for Russians. Somewhere in the middle lies the truth to it all.

That said I do think arresting these yachts (and many other toys, bank accounts and so on) are probably the right thing to do to push additional pressure on Putin.

Last week the BBC did a programme about how Abramovich got his money. In summary, state aided corruption at a massive scale. Sold state assets at a knock down price, sold on for billions shortly after. Funding to buy the asset in the first place was cash transferred by the state to his bank account

And it happened all over the place in other former USSR countries as well, while maybe not as high profile as in Russia, or as big amounts, but 30 years ago I worked on the RAC Rally with a sponsor, who had been a former Czech govt worker, and became an overnight millionaire via the same means when the country went into overnight turmoil with the collapse of the former Soviet Bloc countries......while it wasn't billions, it was multiple millions.

We think we're so saintly in the west, but you need to listen to what went on during that time, from those that were there and put yourselves in their shoes at that moment in time with their backgrounds, and I bet there's not many here who would have done any different.

[Caddyshack]

aeropilot said:

blueg33 said:

Bas Jaski said:

Caddyshack said:

Is it? (the Venn diagram) I do not really know anything about Oligarchs apart from what the media tell us about them...I guess that there has been an anti Oli western slant. I do not know if that is true or not. I understand our take is that Putin helped his buddies out and they grabbed the best industries for themselves.

I have heard a lot about Obramavich. Two people I know have come in to contact with him and both said good things about him - One cut his hair and the other built an Airsoft site for his son and his mates to use and maintained the weapons for him. He is pretty high profile and I have not seen any muck about him in the press but I have not really cared to look for it either. I believe he was very popular at Chelsea and that is the only Oli info I have to go on.

I'm not going to make this post about "all Russian oligarch's are saints" (or even Abramovich), but with the whole corona thing Abramovich was paying the hotel bills for all overworked nurses, so that they also don't need to travel far home etc.


A lot of these guys got (seriously) rich after the break up of the USSR and they grabbed what they could in a time when there were few laws. I guess 90% here standing in their shoes at the time would jump at the opportunity. In the West we only hear one side of the story, and have done for most of our lives. I guess the same goes for Russians. Somewhere in the middle lies the truth to it all.

That said I do think arresting these yachts (and many other toys, bank accounts and so on) are probably the right thing to do to push additional pressure on Putin.

Last week the BBC did a programme about how Abramovich got his money. In summary, state aided corruption at a massive scale. Sold state assets at a knock down price, sold on for billions shortly after. Funding to buy the asset in the first place was cash transferred by the state to his bank account

And it happened all over the place in other former USSR countries as well, while maybe not as high profile as in Russia, or as big amounts, but 30 years ago I worked on the RAC Rally with a sponsor, who had been a former Czech govt worker, and became an overnight millionaire via the same means when the country went into overnight turmoil with the collapse of the former Soviet Bloc countries......while it wasn't billions, it was multiple millions.

We think we're so saintly in the west, but you need to listen to what went on during that time, from those that were there and put yourselves in their shoes at that moment in time with their backgrounds, and I bet there's not many here who would have done any different.

I met a chap on holiday who was chief exec of one of the big bus / transport firms when it was privatised, he said they had huge pension surplusses and it was agreed to give every employee something like 6000 which was a big amount of money back then, he said one employee asked him what he would spend his £6k on...he said he couldn't tell him that the top brass shared out £60m between themselves.


I do not think Obramavich was a bad / evil man for the way he amassed his fortune - ruthless maybe but right place right time and took advantage of something and he had the contacts to make that happen.

[Davey S2]

Flying Fox has been arrested in the Dominican Republic at the request of the US Govt while they look into the ultimate beneficial owner which is believed to be Dmitry Kamenshchik.

The Russians do love their Super / Mega yachts don't they.

[QuickQuack]

Caddyshack said:

I met a chap on holiday who was chief exec of one of the big bus / transport firms when it was privatised, he said they had huge pension surplusses and it was agreed to give every employee something like 6000 which was a big amount of money back then, he said one employee asked him what he would spend his £6k on...he said he couldn't tell him that the top brass shared out £60m between themselves.


I do not think Obramavich was a bad / evil man for the way he amassed his fortune - ruthless maybe but right place right time and took advantage of something and he had the contacts to make that happen.

A small number of people stole the pensions, bonuses and payouts of millions of honest people who didn't steal anything from anyone. To say that anyone who had the opportunity would've done the same is an insult to all honest people on the planet. Feel free to speak for your own dishonest leanings, but I suspect most of the rest of us would've done the right thing and not stolen government and public assets and money.

Also, for the love of whatever deity you do/don't believe in, can you use the correct spelling of Roman Abramovich's surname please? It starts with an A, not with an O. Whether he's a criminal Putin ally or not, his name should still be spelled correctly.

[Caddyshack]

QuickQuack said:

Caddyshack said:

I met a chap on holiday who was chief exec of one of the big bus / transport firms when it was privatised, he said they had huge pension surplusses and it was agreed to give every employee something like 6000 which was a big amount of money back then, he said one employee asked him what he would spend his £6k on...he said he couldn't tell him that the top brass shared out £60m between themselves.


I do not think Obramavich was a bad / evil man for the way he amassed his fortune - ruthless maybe but right place right time and took advantage of something and he had the contacts to make that happen.

A small number of people stole the pensions, bonuses and payouts of millions of honest people who didn't steal anything from anyone. To say that anyone who had the opportunity would've done the same is an insult to all honest people on the planet. Feel free to speak for your own dishonest leanings, but I suspect most of the rest of us would've done the right thing and not stolen government and public assets and money.

Also, for the love of whatever deity you do/don't believe in, can you use the correct spelling of Roman Abramovich's surname please? It starts with an A, not with an O. Whether he's a criminal Putin ally or not, his name should still be spelled correctly.

Righto!

I am not sure it is as black and white as stealing in many instances. If you had the choice of taking a £5m exit from a company or just £100k and share the £4.9m out between all the employees I would expect the majority to take the £5m option or maybe others just lie to themselves about other things too?

[RM]

Caddyshack said:

I met a chap on holiday who was chief exec of one of the big bus / transport firms when it was privatised, he said they had huge pension surplusses and it was agreed to give every employee something like 6000 which was a big amount of money back then, he said one employee asked him what he would spend his £6k on...he said he couldn't tell him that the top brass shared out £60m between themselves.

When he told you that, was it with pride? And when you heard it, did you feel admiration or disgust? No need to answer.

As for the route to Abramovich's wealth, should you do any research at all you will see that even a Russian parliamentary investigation concluded he defrauded his government of nearly $3bn in his purchase of Sibneft, for which he admitted in a UK court he paid $10m to a Kremlin official to enable the deal. By all means, admire him though.

[QuickQuack]

Caddyshack said:

QuickQuack said:

Caddyshack said:

I met a chap on holiday who was chief exec of one of the big bus / transport firms when it was privatised, he said they had huge pension surplusses and it was agreed to give every employee something like 6000 which was a big amount of money back then, he said one employee asked him what he would spend his £6k on...he said he couldn't tell him that the top brass shared out £60m between themselves.


I do not think Obramavich was a bad / evil man for the way he amassed his fortune - ruthless maybe but right place right time and took advantage of something and he had the contacts to make that happen.

A small number of people stole the pensions, bonuses and payouts of millions of honest people who didn't steal anything from anyone. To say that anyone who had the opportunity would've done the same is an insult to all honest people on the planet. Feel free to speak for your own dishonest leanings, but I suspect most of the rest of us would've done the right thing and not stolen government and public assets and money.

Also, for the love of whatever deity you do/don't believe in, can you use the correct spelling of Roman Abramovich's surname please? It starts with an A, not with an O. Whether he's a criminal Putin ally or not, his name should still be spelled correctly.

Righto!

I am not sure it is as black and white as stealing in many instances. If you had the choice of taking a £5m exit from a company or just £100k and share the £4.9m out between all the employees I would expect the majority to take the £5m option or maybe others just lie to themselves about other things too?

Every single person I know and am acquainted with, with the solitary exception of my stepfather who is a hateful person that I stay well away from, would take the £100k and share the rest as it's the right thing to do. It wouldn't even cross any of our minds not to. In fact, I did the exact opposite of what you claim "most" would do when we had an unexpected, very large bonus. The senior team received very large bonuses following a takeover but not those lower down the chain. I knew someone who wouldn't get this but it would help them hugely financially so I shared my bonus with them. That's what people do rather than stealing other people's shares of a pot of money. Only the dishonest themselves would assume that the majority are also dishonest; however, I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people are kind, helpful, and honest. With your assumption of that most people would steal if they had the opportunity, you're only demonstrating your own lack of morals.

[Voldemort]

QuickQuack said:

Every single person I know and am acquainted with, with the solitary exception of my stepfather who is a hateful person that I stay well away from, would take the £100k and share the rest as it's the right thing to do. It wouldn't even cross any of our minds not to. In fact, I did the exact opposite of what you claim "most" would do when we had an unexpected, very large bonus. The senior team received very large bonuses following a takeover but not those lower down the chain. I knew someone who wouldn't get this but it would help them hugely financially so I shared my bonus with them. That's what people do rather than stealing other people's shares of a pot of money. Only the dishonest themselves would assume that the majority are also dishonest; however, I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people are kind, helpful, and honest. With your assumption of that most people would steal if they had the opportunity, you're only demonstrating your own lack of morals.

Does not compute.

[QuickQuack]

Voldemort said:

QuickQuack said:

Every single person I know and am acquainted with, with the solitary exception of my stepfather who is a hateful person that I stay well away from, would take the £100k and share the rest as it's the right thing to do. It wouldn't even cross any of our minds not to. In fact, I did the exact opposite of what you claim "most" would do when we had an unexpected, very large bonus. The senior team received very large bonuses following a takeover but not those lower down the chain. I knew someone who wouldn't get this but it would help them hugely financially so I shared my bonus with them. That's what people do rather than stealing other people's shares of a pot of money. Only the dishonest themselves would assume that the majority are also dishonest; however, I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people are kind, helpful, and honest. With your assumption of that most people would steal if they had the opportunity, you're only demonstrating your own lack of morals.

Does not compute.

How does it not compute? The bonus wasn't awarded by the senior team to themselves, it was awarded to us by the company taking over ours as a retention bonus so that we didn't leave the company for a set time.