Using Air Ambulances when not strictly called for?
Discussion
I am working in a school today (doing I.T.) heard a low flying helicopter, looked out of the window, saw a helicopter circling to land.
It landed on the school playing field to ( I found out later) attend to a kid with a dislocated knee... Apparently no land ambulances were available at the time of the call...
I appreciate that it could not be helped, but.. having put a couple of quid in tin at their local newsagent to FUND the bloody thing, feel that my money has been (sort of) mis-spent....
Would they be able to bill the NHS for this... I am guessing not?
It landed on the school playing field to ( I found out later) attend to a kid with a dislocated knee... Apparently no land ambulances were available at the time of the call...
I appreciate that it could not be helped, but.. having put a couple of quid in tin at their local newsagent to FUND the bloody thing, feel that my money has been (sort of) mis-spent....
Would they be able to bill the NHS for this... I am guessing not?
Most Air Ambulances and their support infrastructure are costing money whether they are in use or on stand-by. So, for a variety of reasons they may sometimes attend call outs that turn out to be fairly trvial.
Check out this site http://www.airambulanceassociation.co.uk/ and remember to give generously. None of us know when our, or our family's, lives could depend on it.
Check out this site http://www.airambulanceassociation.co.uk/ and remember to give generously. None of us know when our, or our family's, lives could depend on it.
Geneve said:
Check out this site http://www.airambulanceassociation.co.uk/ and remember to give generously. None of us know when our, or our family's, lives could depend on it.
Very very good cause. We've already had a fun raising day at my local cricket club and another one due this summer.The interesting comment in the OPs post is the comment that "no land based ambulance was available" as it does appear that land based ambulances are in short supply. Certainly here in Sussex I know of several cases over the last 18 months or so where it has taken an ambulance over 45 minutes to get to a call. I also know someone who called an ambulance and St John Ambulance turned up.
Dare I suggest it is cheaper for the ambulance service to send a charity on a call than sending one of their own ambulances.
I do know of a local case where a single vehicle car accident resulted in 2 air ambulances being called out, the first arrived with a paramedic and decided they needed a doctor, so the 2nd bought a doctor. Then the casualty was taken to hospital by land ambulance, apparently because its better not to carry head injury patients in a helicopter unless they need to be in hospital fast.
Dare I suggest it is cheaper for the ambulance service to send a charity on a call than sending one of their own ambulances.
I do know of a local case where a single vehicle car accident resulted in 2 air ambulances being called out, the first arrived with a paramedic and decided they needed a doctor, so the 2nd bought a doctor. Then the casualty was taken to hospital by land ambulance, apparently because its better not to carry head injury patients in a helicopter unless they need to be in hospital fast.
It all sounds like misappropriation of taxpayer's money to me. Not enough money for NHS ambulances, so Joe Taxpayer has to stump up yet again and pay for Air Ambulances...
It also makes me wonder about police helicopters, who if the TV programmes are to be believed spend about £30,000 of taxpayer's money to catch a spotty scrote who is then let off with a caution. Plain stupid. Either don't bother, or shoot the miscreant.
It also makes me wonder about police helicopters, who if the TV programmes are to be believed spend about £30,000 of taxpayer's money to catch a spotty scrote who is then let off with a caution. Plain stupid. Either don't bother, or shoot the miscreant.
Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 12th May 22:35
GSP said:
It may have only been diagnosed as a disclocated knee after the incident.
It may have looked like a badly factured leg, which if not sorted promptly can be cutting off blood circulation to the lower lef. Which can result in a lost limb if not straigtened quickly.
Was chatting with the site manager a short time ago... never any question of it being more serious than a "simple" dislocated knee.. Deployment of the air ambulance was entirely down to lack of availabilty of land ambulance...It may have looked like a badly factured leg, which if not sorted promptly can be cutting off blood circulation to the lower lef. Which can result in a lost limb if not straigtened quickly.
thatone1967 said:
Was chatting with the site manager a short time ago... never any question of it being more serious than a "simple" dislocated knee.. Deployment of the air ambulance was entirely down to lack of availabilty of land ambulance...
School "Site manager" Is that what they call Head Masters these days? (Or perhaps its a new word for Janitor?0 Either way sounds like a pimped job title for a job that never existed when I was at school...scubadude said:
thatone1967 said:
Was chatting with the site manager a short time ago... never any question of it being more serious than a "simple" dislocated knee.. Deployment of the air ambulance was entirely down to lack of availabilty of land ambulance...
School "Site manager" Is that what they call Head Masters these days? (Or perhaps its a new word for Janitor?0 Either way sounds like a pimped job title for a job that never existed when I was at school...
Simpo Two said:
It all sounds like misappropriation of taxpayer's money to me. Not enough money for NHS ambulances, so Joe Taxpayer has to stump up yet again and pay for Air Ambulances...
It also makes me wonder about police helicopters, who if the TV programmes are to be believed spend about £30,000 of taxpayer's money to catch a spotty scrote who is then let off with a caution. Plain stupid. Either don't bother, or shoot the miscreant.
I dont think Air Ambulance gets much if any taxpayer's money does it...It also makes me wonder about police helicopters, who if the TV programmes are to be believed spend about £30,000 of taxpayer's money to catch a spotty scrote who is then let off with a caution. Plain stupid. Either don't bother, or shoot the miscreant.
Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 12th May 22:35
I know the AA used to sponsor some
I do agree with your Police helo's remark
thatone1967 said:
Apparently no land ambulances were available at the time of the call...
I appreciate that it could not be helped, but.. having put a couple of quid in tin at their local newsagent to FUND the bloody thing, feel that my money has been (sort of) mis-spent....
So...there were no other resources available so someone took the decision to deploy the Air Ambulance to an emergency case.....and you feel like your money is misspent?I appreciate that it could not be helped, but.. having put a couple of quid in tin at their local newsagent to FUND the bloody thing, feel that my money has been (sort of) mis-spent....
So in your world you leave the little injured fella there unattended until an ambulance is available because helichoppers are expensive?
Shocked.
Or are you saying that your air ambulance donations should be used to buy more ambulances?
Confused.
Edited by mattdaniels on Friday 14th May 20:33
Most (if not all) are staffed by NHS Trust ambulance staff - it is the actual operational costs covered by the charity. Most (if not all) are deployed via Ambulance Control Centres - the 999 call has to go somewhere. All costs of this are met by the host NHS Trust.
With hindsight, it may appear a low grade incident, but when you have a kid screaming in agony with ?fractured leg, on a playing field (which generally have poor access/egress) then if the AA was available, send it. It could always be diverted to a higher priority call if one came in.
With hindsight, it may appear a low grade incident, but when you have a kid screaming in agony with ?fractured leg, on a playing field (which generally have poor access/egress) then if the AA was available, send it. It could always be diverted to a higher priority call if one came in.
Limey 666 said:
It costs a bloody fortune to keep them in the air I think it was something like £1200 an hour.
No. The air ambulance infrastructure (substantially funded by charitable donations and sponsorship) costs whether the a/c are flying or not. The management make a judgement on when and where their use is appropriate. They can't always know the nature of the call out, but of course some will be life saving, some won't. 
scubadude said:
School "Site manager" Is that what they call Head Masters these days? (Or perhaps its a new word for Janitor?0 Either way sounds like a pimped job title for a job that never existed when I was at school...
School I was a Governor at appointed a site manager. 1500 sprogs need a lot of kit to keep them warm and dry (if not actually educated 
). 4 sets of boilers, lifts, pumps, electrics, building fabric ranging from near-new to 40 years old, the list is endless. Needs somebody with a premises background, certainly not a part-time job for a junior teacher.Back on topic - it still annoys me that the NHS is relying on charities despite all the money Winky shovelled down its throat.
scubadude said:
thatone1967 said:
Was chatting with the site manager a short time ago... never any question of it being more serious than a "simple" dislocated knee.. Deployment of the air ambulance was entirely down to lack of availabilty of land ambulance...
School "Site manager" Is that what they call Head Masters these days? (Or perhaps its a new word for Janitor?0 Either way sounds like a pimped job title for a job that never existed when I was at school...john_p said:
Most costs incurred whether the aircraft flies or not?
Really? Fuel, inspections, component replacement, airframe life? Those must be big costs not incurred when the aircraft isn't flying..
The biggest expenditures are often fixed - capital costs, insurance, staff, etc. A twin engine EC135, for example, probably consumes 200 litres of Jet A1 p/h in flight (nothing when shut down on the ground) and of course some components are calendar lifed and some are hour lifed, but these working helicopters are designed to be in use around the clock. Some Air Ambulances are leased from the likes of Bond Helicopters and the operators are careful to make sensible use of their leasing arrangements.Really? Fuel, inspections, component replacement, airframe life? Those must be big costs not incurred when the aircraft isn't flying..
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