Amazingly cool and interesting plane footage

[Oilchange]

Think outside of it. Set up a FARP or install a Bob tank or two?

For helos air to air has limited uses

[yellowjack]

Maybe you could go right back to basics with refuelling? Use the helicopter's door winch to bring up the fuel in 20 litre jerrycans dispensed by a human chain from a hatch in the upper fuselage surface of the (obviously fixed-wing ) tanker aircraft?

The only drawback I can see is the potential for burning fuel at a greater rate during the refuelling operation than the rate at which they can transfer it...

[Eric Mc]

Oilchange said:

Think outside of it. Set up a FARP or install a Bob tank or two?

You might need to translate that.

[CanAm]

Our older readers mat remember an episode of Candid Camera along those lines, in the days before self-service at petrol stations. They got a Heineken/Isetta bubble car and fitted a HUGE petrol tank behind the front seats. The standard one was only a couple of gallons and this was probably 50. The attendant was totally bemused by the time taking for it to fill and Jonathan Routh said, “I’d better turn the engine off, it must be using the petrol faster than you’re filling it”

[take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey]

Eric Mc said:

Aha - the committee approach. That works.

I was thinking more of the technical solution. There are limited ways to get fuel from one aircraft to another in mid-air. I was just wondering what ingenious method you might come up with that hasn't been tried before now.

Sorry to disappoint Eric but the days of R. J. Mitchell are long gone.


Aircraft and general materiel design is a team effort these days. So yes it does work.

Last time I was in BAES design offices it was full of 'committees'... and funnily enough, when we seconded one of our grads into the Tempest programme last year it still was.

I don't need to come up with an ingenious solution to comment that a design that permits the probe to interface with rotor disc is not a good idea. You obviously think it is, so we'll just have agree to disagree.

Anyway, we're derailing the thread so I'll dip out of this discussion now and go back to enjoying the cool videos.

[RizzoTheRat]

Following on from the E2's cable break earlier, here's an F18 not being so lucky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX19sAudmic

Several injuries on the deck but both crew got out



I've seen a C17 reverse under it's own power, and I've been on a Jetstream that did it, but I've never seen a fighter do it before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBE41A9VT3Q

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Thursday 11th February 09:33

[Eric Mc]

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:

Sorry to disappoint Eric but the days of R. J. Mitchell are long gone.


Aircraft and general materiel design is a team effort these days. So yes it does work.

Last time I was in BAES design offices it was full of 'committees'... and funnily enough, when we seconded one of our grads into the Tempest programme last year it still was.

I don't need to come up with an ingenious solution to comment that a design that permits the probe to interface with rotor disc is not a good idea. You obviously think it is, so we'll just have agree to disagree.

Anyway, we're derailing the thread so I'll dip out of this discussion now and go back to enjoying the cool videos.

To be honest, all I'm hearing is waffle and no actual technical suggestions. Even committees need people to make suggestions. I'm still waiting for yours.

As for RJ Mitchell - he didn't design the Spitfire on his own. In fact, he hardly designed any of it.

[JuniorD]

RizzoTheRat said:

I've seen a C17 reverse under it's own power, and I've been on a Jetstream that did it, but I've never seen a fighter do it before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBE41A9VT3Q

[/footnote]

What a piece of kit!

[Eric Mc]

I've seen a few planes do it over the years - even a piston engined Convair T-29. This one, to be precise -

[take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey]

JuniorD said:

RizzoTheRat said:

I've seen a C17 reverse under it's own power, and I've been on a Jetstream that did it, but I've never seen a fighter do it before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBE41A9VT3Q

[/footnote]

What a piece of kit!

Saab did / do build some very clever aircraft. My favourite was the Draken. Double delta designs do look very futuristic - even today.

It's a shame the F16XL never made it past the demonstrator.

[RizzoTheRat]

Yeah, I love the look of the Drakken

I assume thrust reversers are less common on fighters than transports or commercial aircraft as less weight for the brakes to deal with, and generally operate from big airfields. The Viggen was intended to operate from improvised runways dispersed around the country so I guess short landing distance and the ability to maneuver itself around on the ground were important.

[MartG]

RizzoTheRat said:

I've seen a C17 reverse under it's own power, and I've been on a Jetstream that did it, but I've never seen a fighter do it before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBE41A9VT3Q

A Tornado pilot once told me how they bemused some USAF ground handlers by reversing into their parking spaces when on a joint exercise once

[CanAm]

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:

Saab did / do build some very clever aircraft. My favourite was the Draken. Double delta designs do look very futuristic - even today.

[MB140]

yellowjack said:

Maybe you could go right back to basics with refuelling? Use the helicopter's door winch to bring up the fuel in 20 litre jerrycans dispensed by a human chain from a hatch in the upper fuselage surface of the (obviously fixed-wing ) tanker aircraft?

The only drawback I can see is the potential for burning fuel at a greater rate during the refuelling operation than the rate at which they can transfer it...

Don’t knock it. I once saw a merlin out in Seeb, winch a fuel hose up when it had an undercarriage issue. They literally refuelled it in the hover whilst the ground guys set up a support for the undercarriage which wasn’t indicated as locked.

[MartG]

MB140 said:

yellowjack said:

Maybe you could go right back to basics with refuelling? Use the helicopter's door winch to bring up the fuel in 20 litre jerrycans dispensed by a human chain from a hatch in the upper fuselage surface of the (obviously fixed-wing ) tanker aircraft?

The only drawback I can see is the potential for burning fuel at a greater rate during the refuelling operation than the rate at which they can transfer it...

Don’t knock it. I once saw a merlin out in Seeb, winch a fuel hose up when it had an undercarriage issue. They literally refuelled it in the hover whilst the ground guys set up a support for the undercarriage which wasn’t indicated as locked.

It's a technique often used to refuel helicopters from ships which don't have a large enough flightdeck for them to land for refuelling

[MB140]

MartG said:

It's a technique often used to refuel helicopters from ships which don't have a large enough flightdeck for them to land for refuelling

Cool just out of shot the linies were busy stacking sandbags. In the end it was an indication problem. The leg was locked in position. In landed ok with the stack of sandbags underneath doing nothing.

[tog]

RizzoTheRat said:

I've seen a C17 reverse under it's own power, and I've been on a Jetstream that did it, but I've never seen a fighter do it before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBE41A9VT3Q

That looks pretty squirrelly under braking. Saw one of these at Fairford some years ago.

[take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey]

Not a video, but not worth starting a new thread for.

Interesting article on tracked planes.

https://www.afmc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Artic...

[Oilchange]

Eric Mc said:

Oilchange said:

Think outside of it. Set up a FARP or install a Bob tank or two?

You might need to translate that.

FARP is a forward arming and refuelling point so the mission can be set up in stages if long distance. Can use fuel 'bks' or internal Bob tanks with the pump gear.

'Bob' tank is an internal tank (Robertson refuelling tank, as used on Chinooks) probably have something similar. Each [Chinook] tank holds about 2 hours of fuel.

[Eric Mc]

Thank you.

Jargon is the enemy of communication.