First Flying Lesson
Discussion
Good luck to you and if you have the money come over to rotary wing. Remember though the licensed engineer is your friend and you can't hide anything from us, we've heard every excuse in the book from "it was like that" to "it came off in my hand". Even us engineers have a glance at Pprune once in a while and its full of useful information. Enjoy your flying time, aviation in all it's aspects is very rewarding.
You start with two accounts.
One is called 'luck' and you don't know how much is in it. You can't pay into this account,
but every time you make a mistake you make a large withdrawal.
The other is called 'experience' and it starts out empty, but you will add a tiny bit each trip.
The trick is to fill up the Experience account before the Luck account gets overdrawn.
One is called 'luck' and you don't know how much is in it. You can't pay into this account,
but every time you make a mistake you make a large withdrawal.
The other is called 'experience' and it starts out empty, but you will add a tiny bit each trip.
The trick is to fill up the Experience account before the Luck account gets overdrawn.
When taking off and landing at Panshanger please try avoid flying your plane into the side of my flat which is less than half a mile from the runway. If you do I'll get very, very angry with you to the point where I may even post some derogatory comments about your piloting skills! 
Edited by Tango13 on Wednesday 4th August 21:21
Having flown bulldogs @ Leeming with the RAF and subsequently gained a CPL (H) on Bell 47s, hughes 300s etc I felt I should respond to your mail ... I have been dormant on this site for some time.
Depends what you want out of it. I did a CPL to be safe when I take my family, as PPL training is like CBT on a bike In my humble opinion. Go the whole way, but consider half a year outside the UK.
PM me if you are indeed serious. A
Depends what you want out of it. I did a CPL to be safe when I take my family, as PPL training is like CBT on a bike In my humble opinion. Go the whole way, but consider half a year outside the UK.
PM me if you are indeed serious. A
I'm half way through my NPPL (M) (microlights that look like little 'planes)
I'll second what people say about the medical. I hadn't got mine sorted (and its a damn sight easier for us NPPL's to get one too) and was told I could have gone solo if I had.
Was gutted and due to weather and work commitments I still haven't gone solo.
The only other piece of advice I'd offer is that if the horrendous cost of 'group A' flying begins to get to you, consider moving over to the dark side and flying microlights.
Daylight, clear weather conditions only, but then do you really want to fly around in pea soup conditions?
Modern microlights often have superior performance to many group A machines (if you can live with just two seats) and these days you can upgrade your (fixed wing) microlight licence to a NPPL Single Engine Plane (SEP) licence with an additional 5 hours training and another skills test. This would then allow you to fly 4 seat planes with fixed undercarridge and a maximum of 2000kg gross takeoff weight.
For all intents and purposes that is most light aircraft you'll come across.
Oh, and here is a pic of my dream 'plane
Its a permit 2 seater.
Just need to save up my pennies.
Andy
I'll second what people say about the medical. I hadn't got mine sorted (and its a damn sight easier for us NPPL's to get one too) and was told I could have gone solo if I had.
Was gutted and due to weather and work commitments I still haven't gone solo.
The only other piece of advice I'd offer is that if the horrendous cost of 'group A' flying begins to get to you, consider moving over to the dark side and flying microlights.
Daylight, clear weather conditions only, but then do you really want to fly around in pea soup conditions?
Modern microlights often have superior performance to many group A machines (if you can live with just two seats) and these days you can upgrade your (fixed wing) microlight licence to a NPPL Single Engine Plane (SEP) licence with an additional 5 hours training and another skills test. This would then allow you to fly 4 seat planes with fixed undercarridge and a maximum of 2000kg gross takeoff weight.
For all intents and purposes that is most light aircraft you'll come across.
Oh, and here is a pic of my dream 'plane
Its a permit 2 seater.
Just need to save up my pennies.
Andy
williamp said:
A few more:
1) You can never, never use too many Top Gun or Battle of Britain quotes. They've not heard them before, and love them
I have to say that when I was learning to fly gliders, there were three of us in the same thermal, one flew across where my line of fire would have been had the glider have been armed, and I went "tak-a-tak-a-tak-a-tak". The instructor burst out laughing.
1) You can never, never use too many Top Gun or Battle of Britain quotes. They've not heard them before, and love them
I have to say that when I was learning to fly gliders, there were three of us in the same thermal, one flew across where my line of fire would have been had the glider have been armed, and I went "tak-a-tak-a-tak-a-tak". The instructor burst out laughing.
andytk said:
...consider moving over to the dark side and flying microlights.
Modern microlights often have superior performance...
Andy
I was under the thinking that whilst they are lighter than class A aircraft, they are have weaker structures meaning you can do very little aerobatics in them? Maybe i'm generalising too much...Modern microlights often have superior performance...
Andy
andytk said:
I'm half way through my NPPL (M) (microlights that look like little 'planes)
I'll second what people say about the medical. I hadn't got mine sorted (and its a damn sight easier for us NPPL's to get one too) and was told I could have gone solo if I had.
Was gutted and due to weather and work commitments I still haven't gone solo.
The only other piece of advice I'd offer is that if the horrendous cost of 'group A' flying begins to get to you, consider moving over to the dark side and flying microlights.
Daylight, clear weather conditions only, but then do you really want to fly around in pea soup conditions?
Modern microlights often have superior performance to many group A machines (if you can live with just two seats) and these days you can upgrade your (fixed wing) microlight licence to a NPPL Single Engine Plane (SEP) licence with an additional 5 hours training and another skills test. This would then allow you to fly 4 seat planes with fixed undercarridge and a maximum of 2000kg gross takeoff weight.
For all intents and purposes that is most light aircraft you'll come across.
Oh, and here is a pic of my dream 'plane
Its a permit 2 seater.
Just need to save up my pennies.
Andy
I've a few hours in one of them. If you're over 5ft 1, then buy something else! Flies alright though.I'll second what people say about the medical. I hadn't got mine sorted (and its a damn sight easier for us NPPL's to get one too) and was told I could have gone solo if I had.
Was gutted and due to weather and work commitments I still haven't gone solo.
The only other piece of advice I'd offer is that if the horrendous cost of 'group A' flying begins to get to you, consider moving over to the dark side and flying microlights.
Daylight, clear weather conditions only, but then do you really want to fly around in pea soup conditions?
Modern microlights often have superior performance to many group A machines (if you can live with just two seats) and these days you can upgrade your (fixed wing) microlight licence to a NPPL Single Engine Plane (SEP) licence with an additional 5 hours training and another skills test. This would then allow you to fly 4 seat planes with fixed undercarridge and a maximum of 2000kg gross takeoff weight.
For all intents and purposes that is most light aircraft you'll come across.
Oh, and here is a pic of my dream 'plane
Its a permit 2 seater.
Just need to save up my pennies.
Andy
Oh and ALWAYS get a medical before you commence training. I've seen too many students get held up or waste money because a problem was found.
To the OP, just go along and try to take in as much as you can, but don't worry if it goes by in a flash and you can't remember a thing! Your first lesson is about introducing you to flying. I rarely try to teach anyone other than the total basics on a trial lesson unless I can see how keen they are and tell if they have some spare capacity. Most people don't and are happy just to fly the thing around. I don't formalise it at all and just keep it relaxed. It's amazing how much people pick up without realising they're actually being taught!
IforB said:
I've a few hours in one of them. If you're over 5ft 1, then buy something else! Flies alright though.
I am quite short but didn't realise they were quite that bad. Never seen one in the fibreglass so to speak.That probably explains why the hang around on Afors for as long as they do. Plenty of interested parties, just not short, lightweight parties...
Andy
Had my first flying lesson in a rotary wing yesterday too. Didnt do too bad, but its difficult to get the hang of collective, blade pitch, stick and peddles !!!
Didnt take off, but had a binble around at about 3000 feet, following various bearings etc.
Need to get more used to turning and keeping the ball in the damn centre of the screen without over correcting ..
Didnt take off, but had a binble around at about 3000 feet, following various bearings etc.
Need to get more used to turning and keeping the ball in the damn centre of the screen without over correcting ..
tkdsteve08 said:
Thanks for all the comments guys the first flight was great I have been hooked I cant wait for the next flight. But it's going to be expensive do you guys know how much the exams are.
For a PPL, the written exams are usually fairly cheap. We didn't charge for them at one place, but at another they were £20 a paper (if you passed)The final flight test is around £150/200 depending on the examiner, obviously this is ontop of the aircraft hire and landing fees.
You then have to pay the CAA for the licence issue too.
However, these fees are minimal in comparison to the cost of aircraft and instructor hire. Don't expect to do it in 45hours (if going for the JAR PPL rather than NPPL) and budget for more like 55-60 hours, but don't worry if it takes longer than that, how long it takes to train is not necessarily a reflection on your capabilities as a pilot.
Good luck and if you have any questions then feel free to send me a message. (I've been an FI for over 10 years)
tkdsteve08 said:
Sorry Guys whats the difference between JAR PPL and NPPL
From memory:NPPL SSEA (Simple Single-Engine Aircraft) is a UK-only licence & rating, restricting you to day VFR in aircraft under 2000kg (retractable gear, CS props and turbo-charging allowed with appropriate differences training), but with no provision for further ratings and qualifications.
JAR SEP (Single Engine Piston) is an ICAO (internationally recognised, basically) licence & rating, allowing day VFR in aircraft up to 5200kg, and the provision for the addition of an IMC (UK-only) rating or a full Instrument Rating, Night Qualification, Class Rating Instrutor and Flying Instructor qualifications (if you want to get paid to instruct, you'd need a Commercial licence). You can also add twin and turbine ratings to a JAR PPL.
That's how it stands at the moment. All manner of European machinations mean the NPPL is likely to morph into a European-wide qualification, with all manner of Euro-beaurollox attached, and the IMC may disappear completely. Or maybe not.
The fundamental difference between the NPPL (SSEA) and the JAR (SEP) PPLs is that the medical for the NPPL is via self-certification, countersigned by your GP, whereas for a JAR PPL you need a minimum of a Class 2 medical, which is more restrictive and costs more.
eharding said:
tkdsteve08 said:
Sorry Guys whats the difference between JAR PPL and NPPL
From memory:NPPL SSEA (Simple Single-Engine Aircraft) is a UK-only licence & rating, restricting you to day VFR in aircraft under 2000kg (retractable gear, CS props and turbo-charging allowed with appropriate differences training), but with no provision for further ratings and qualifications.
JAR SEP (Single Engine Piston) is an ICAO (internationally recognised, basically) licence & rating, allowing day VFR in aircraft up to 5200kg, and the provision for the addition of an IMC (UK-only) rating or a full Instrument Rating, Night Qualification, Class Rating Instrutor and Flying Instructor qualifications (if you want to get paid to instruct, you'd need a Commercial licence). You can also add twin and turbine ratings to a JAR PPL.
That's how it stands at the moment. All manner of European machinations mean the NPPL is likely to morph into a European-wide qualification, with all manner of Euro-beaurollox attached, and the IMC may disappear completely. Or maybe not.
The fundamental difference between the NPPL (SSEA) and the JAR (SEP) PPLs is that the medical for the NPPL is via self-certification, countersigned by your GP, whereas for a JAR PPL you need a minimum of a Class 2 medical, which is more restrictive and costs more.
BTW did I see correctly that you've been banned from pprune? If so, what for? You were one of the only decent posters left on that interminable place.
IforB said:
BTW did I see correctly that you've been banned from pprune? If so, what for? You were one of the only decent posters left on that interminable place.
That was all a bit confusing. One of the moderators was complaining that someone was starting numerous random threads, so I enquired in what I thought was a jocular fashion why he didn't "take care" of it.There may have been references to Father Ted, Rabbits, and the Cosa Nostra. It was rather late at night.
Next morning I wake up, log into the Prune to find I've been found guilty overnight of "belittling a moderator", and slung into the brig for four days....to the huge amusement of various Waltham reprobates who inhabit the place.
The moderators over there are a bit unpredictable - on minute they're all smiles, the next they're ripping your throat out.
eharding said:
The moderators over there are a bit unpredictable - on minute they're all smiles, the next they're ripping your throat out.
As an ex-moderator (Bizjets, Rumours & News and Far East) and a member since 1998 (no longer) there I can only agree. I tried to inject some levity into things but I know the old school mods didn't agree. When the market bombed two years ago I allowed jobhunters to post their CV's in Bizjets which also went down badly. Some wouldn't even converse with me, a number of emails to the senior guys were never answered. The last straw came when I suspended a member for a few days for being a bit of an arse. Turns out he knew two mods who gave him my real life identity. I quit.
tkdsteve08 said:
Ok chaps
It's so handy being able to speak to people who know what they are talking about thanks.
So I guess the (JAR SEP) is the licence to go for then?
It depends what you're wanting to do. The NPPL also has less onerous currency requirements, both in terms of hours and medical I believe. You can also now fly SEP to France on a NPPL (confusingly you need an ICAO Class 2 medical as the French won't accept the GP self-declaration despite accepting it for NPPL microlights!).It's so handy being able to speak to people who know what they are talking about thanks.
So I guess the (JAR SEP) is the licence to go for then?
It's a decision you don't really need to make until quite late on in your flight training - some extra content near the end, longer Qualifying Cross Country and a single skills test instead of a separate navigation test. Everything else up until then is pretty much the same.
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