Post amazingly cool pictures of aircraft (Volume 2)

[happygoron]

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

happygoron said:

Ooooh Saab Draken, still beautiful!

The Swedes made/make some cracking a/c!

Get saving then! Cheaper than a small house in a reasonable area, and a damn site quicker too!

Are there no supersonic jets in private hands in the uk then?

[Eric Mc]

The Hunter and Gnat are both transonic.

[chuntington101]

jimmyjimjim said:

Mr Will said:

dr_gn said:

Eric Mc said:

chuntington101 said:

Odie said:

Just on firing through prop blades,

iirc the first pilot to do it just had "deflector" plates fitted to the back of his prop, then the mechanic timer was developed that would stop the gun from firing when a prop blade was in the way (similar to a cambelt/cam arrangement)


Some very cool pictures in this thread

I always wondered how they fired through the prop. Be intresting to see and engine driven gun! bet the RPM of it would be stupidly high! lol

Roland Garros (after whom the tennis courts are named) was the fisrt pilot to fit a deflector system to his aircraft (a Morane Saulnier L Parasol type aircraft)



His aircraft eventually force landed on the wrong side of the lines and the deflector system was sent to Anthony Fokker for him to replicate for his aircraft. He went one better and designed a mecahnical/hydraulic interrupter ssystem for his Fokker E1.
This type of system becvame the norm for use on all fighter aircraft where bullets had to pass through a spinning propellor.

Thinking about the interruptor mechanism...I bet there is a significant reduction in rate of fire when firing through the prop. The Bf 109E prop speed was about 25 revs/sec, so that's about 75 blade passes per second, and the guns only fired at 20 rounds per second in ideal conditions...That'd if my maths is right. I wonder if that's the reason they stuck with 3 bladed props for the '109 and '190?

Notwithstanding the canon vs. MG issue, I wonder what the true rate of fire was for a Spitfire or Hurricane with 8 MG's unsynchronised vs the Bf 109E with it's 2 synchronised MG's and 2 MGFF cannon ?

My hazy memory tells me that it effectively "paused" firing just long enough for the blade to pass, rather than skipping a shot, so the reduction in rate of fire was quite small.

But I'm probably wrong.

Wiki indicates that really it's not that simple, there's a few varieties of interupter gear:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrupter_gear

The early system was dependant on engine rpm so the effect was quite pronounced, later systems had only a small effect on the rate of fire.

The Browning machine guns used in Spitfires had a rate of fire of 1200-1500rpm (for the Mk2 and Mk2* iirc), so up to 12,000rpm for 8 guns.(!). Tearing calico as they say.
The Bf109 mg131's were 900rpm, per gun. The cannon was about 750 rpm. Obviously, all these figures are 'out of the aircraft', but I wouldn't be surprised if the Germans got pretty close to those numbers.
There's a remark somewhere (on the Bf109 or the MG131 article) about using electrically primed ammunition to get the maximum fire rate when using syncronisation.

Out of interest, I did a quick back of a fag packet calc on firepower:

Browning Mk2 - 12,000 rounds, 11.3 grams per round equals a throw weight of 135.6Kg/min.
MG131 - 900 rounds, 2 guns, 38.5grams per round = 69.3Kg/min.
MG151/20 - 750 rounds, 72 grams per round = 54Kg/Min
Combined for a total throw of 123.3Kg/min.

Not far off the spitfire/hurricane, but simpler, and with the benefit of a good chunk of it being HE.

I cant remeber where i read it but some say that the lethality of the 20mm Hispon is about 2.5 that of a 0.5 inch M2! this is even though there is not 2.5times the weight of fire going down the range! also as said above you can get a nice chuunk of HE to the target with the Cannon. this is the reason why, even the Americans, wanted to get away from MGs. I still think that wing mounted armerment would be the better choice, esp when you start throwing in tired and stressed gound crew with little or no spear parts.

however it would be intresting to see what and engine driven, or the drive tyaken off the prop, powered gun could diliver. hmmmm how about a 5 cylinder revolver 20mm? wonder what the rater of fire could be with one of them? lol

[Rouleur]

Some pics of Western a/c intercepting those pesky Ruskies



*





* This one was actually an escort situation rather than an interception

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

Rouleur said:

Some pics of Western a/c intercepting those pesky Ruskies




* This one was actually an escort situation rather than an interception

12 Sqn 'Banana' shadowing a Soviet Sovremenny Class Destroyer?

I'm guessing during one of the MEDEXs out of Gibraltar.

[Yertis]

Out of interest, what's the difference between "shadowing" and "escorting"?

[Hugo a Gogo]

something to do with a camel?

[Rouleur]

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

Rouleur said:

Some pics of Western a/c intercepting those pesky Ruskies




* This one was actually an escort situation rather than an interception

12 Sqn 'Banana' shadowing a Soviet Sovremenny Class Destroyer?

I'm guessing during one of the MEDEXs out of Gibraltar.

Apparently it's a Udaloy class anti-sub destroyer.

[DieselGriff]

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

Rouleur said:

Some pics of Western a/c intercepting those pesky Ruskies




* This one was actually an escort situation rather than an interception

12 Sqn 'Banana' shadowing a Soviet Sovremenny Class Destroyer?

I'm guessing during one of the MEDEXs out of Gibraltar.

That's a 208 SQN aircraft, note the eyed wing on the tail, the blue "triangle" on the front of aircraft and lack of fox on the intake.

[Rouleur]

Hugo a Gogo said:

something to do with a camel?

In the case of the F-16 and SU-27 the Sukhoi was on its way to an airshow and therefore had permission to pass through foreign airspace, so it was 'escorted', whereas a 'shadowed' a/c is one which is somewhere it shouldn't be.

Edited by Rouleur on Thursday 2nd September 21:26

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

Rouleur said:

Apparently it's a Udaloy class anti-sub destroyer.

I think the details on that photo' have been mis-recorded then because that's no Udaloy.

This a Udaloy :

[Yertis]

Rouleur said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

something to do with a camel?

In the case of the F-16 and SU-27 the Sukhoi was on its way to an airshow and therefore had permission to pass through foreign airspace, so it was 'escorted', whereas a 'shadowed' a/c is one which is somewhere it shouldn't be.

Edited by Rouleur on Thursday 2nd September 21:26

Ah - I missed that little asterisk and thought it was referring the Buccaneer pic.

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

DieselGriff said:

That's a 208 SQN aircraft, note the eyed wing on the tail, the blue "triangle" on the front of aircraft and lack of fox on the intake.

You are of course quite correct.

For some reason I confused myself that 12 had the triangle.

Still can't see the flying eye though - failing eyesight I guess.


208 Penetrate!

[DieselGriff]

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

DieselGriff said:

That's a 208 SQN aircraft, note the eyed wing on the tail, the blue "triangle" on the front of aircraft and lack of fox on the intake.

You are of course quite correct.

For some reason I confused myself that 12 had the triangle.

Still can't see the flying eye though - failing eyesight I guess.


208 Penetrate!

Not failing eyesight it looks like the "yellow bar" (what are they) carried by a number of RAF aircraft of this time, but it's actually the winged eye - an eye with Egyptian style wings out of each side to commemorate (wrong word but you know what I mean) 208's involvement in Egypt. If you look carefully you can make out the slightly upward swing of the undersides of the emblem.

[Mojocvh]

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

happygoron said:

Ooooh Saab Draken, still beautiful!

The Swedes made/make some cracking a/c!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hax3rhqGJcQ&fea...

[Rouleur]

'A heritage flight at Offutt Air Force Base, Neb., that included a P-38 Lightning of the Army Air Forces and an F-22 Raptor demonstrates the proud heritage of military aviation over the past 60 years'

[Eric Mc]

Ironically, the F-22 Raptor was originally titled the F-22 Lightning II.

[Tootles the Taxi]

Decided Duxford would be too crowded, so took the family to Shuttleworth this afternoon.





























Hope they are deemed cool.

[The real Apache]

Duxford was hammered today, even the usual vantage points were brimming, grandson and I enjoyed some of the display from the field by the recycling site and have to confess to Eric, the Arrows were superb.

[james_tigerwoods]

Tootles the Taxi said:

A bunch of cool photos

Yes, they are cool

What lens were you using?