Post amazingly cool pictures of aircraft (Volume 2)
Discussion
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Indeed.
Practice assymmetric can be a dangerous place to be. On the Herc you only ever saw it on the OCU at Medium Level on a single sortie.
On Nimrod, Dominie, and Jetstream, we didn't do it outside of the Sim.
I seem to remember on my q course (c130j, never did a course on the k) that it had an auto safety feature in that if one of the outside throttles was too far out of balance it would alter the opposing wings outboard engine to prevent a situation where excessive yaw could occur. Seems like a very good idea. Practice assymmetric can be a dangerous place to be. On the Herc you only ever saw it on the OCU at Medium Level on a single sortie.
On Nimrod, Dominie, and Jetstream, we didn't do it outside of the Sim.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Sunday 1st July 20:26
Either way I crashed in the sim at Brize by slamming all 4 throttles closed just before commencing a flair. It just rolled over and touched a wingtip down as all four props stopped developing torque.
(I should point out I’m not a pilot but an Av guy and we had finished doing engine run qualification in the static sim so we were just pissing around doing landings. Oh and for all you flight sim jocks out there it’s a dam site harder in a real sim than on a pc. )
Dr Jekyll said:
Europa1 said:
Dr Jekyll said:
I've only ever seen three aircraft crash.
Who are you, Jonah?Whilst looking through the different channels the other night I came across a program on Martin baker , the person from MB was talking about the meteor that they use in testing ejector seats and one of the advantages he said was the engine, as it's less susceptible to damage from bird Strick's, helpful when operating at low level, the camera panned to the front of the engine that had no visible fan blades.
Europa1 said:
PRTVR said:
I think what he is saying is most people have never witnessed one plane crash ,let alone three,
I was indeed.Dr Jekyll said:
For someone who went to several airshows a year for many years and spent a lot of weekends hanging around small airfields. Just seeing 3 (arguably 2) crashes is not bad going.
Agree with that, I've done every Flying Legends since '97, RIAT '97-'02 (I think) and a few in the States, plus a few days and only seen 2 crashes which I think isn't bad going.Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Indeed.
Practice assymmetric can be a dangerous place to be. On the Herc you only ever saw it on the OCU at Medium Level on a single sortie.
On Nimrod, Dominie, and Jetstream, we didn't do it outside of the Sim.
Surprised at the inclusion of the Nimrod in the list; their engines are relatively close togother. Practice assymmetric can be a dangerous place to be. On the Herc you only ever saw it on the OCU at Medium Level on a single sortie.
On Nimrod, Dominie, and Jetstream, we didn't do it outside of the Sim.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Sunday 1st July 20:26
At heavy weights there wasn't much assymmetric effect on Nimrod, but at circuit weight the amount of thrust the Speys could produce would happily make the aircraft go sideways.
I think the ban on doing practice assymetric approaches/overshoots really resulted from the loss of XV198 - the Hercules that crashed at Colerne in 1973. It was carrying out a practice EFATO (Engine Failure After Take Off), the No1 engine (port outer) was shut down at Vr and the number 2 engine (port inner) failed shortly afterwards. The a/c, being below 2 engine out safety speed (VMCa2) promptly rolled over and dived in from 400ft.
It seems that we'd learnt nothing from the Meteor days!
I think the ban on doing practice assymetric approaches/overshoots really resulted from the loss of XV198 - the Hercules that crashed at Colerne in 1973. It was carrying out a practice EFATO (Engine Failure After Take Off), the No1 engine (port outer) was shut down at Vr and the number 2 engine (port inner) failed shortly afterwards. The a/c, being below 2 engine out safety speed (VMCa2) promptly rolled over and dived in from 400ft.
It seems that we'd learnt nothing from the Meteor days!
MartG said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
In those days they used to do 'Practice Assymmetric' (ie flying with an engine shut down) as opposed to 'simulated assymmetric (ie flying with an engine throttled back).
Owing to the small fin/rudder on the Meteor, coupled with the engines being so far outboard, there was a major problem with controlability at low speed. Indeed the 'coffin region' between take off speed and single engine safety speed was in excess of 20kts.
Couple that with the lack of a Bang Seat and it's not surprising so many were killed on the 'Meatbox'.
The early jet period was second only in danger to the early biplane period (and possibly worse).
According to several accounts in 'Meteor Boys' they eventually realised that practising asymmetric landings with a shut down engine was killing far more pilots than real engine-out landings were Owing to the small fin/rudder on the Meteor, coupled with the engines being so far outboard, there was a major problem with controlability at low speed. Indeed the 'coffin region' between take off speed and single engine safety speed was in excess of 20kts.
Couple that with the lack of a Bang Seat and it's not surprising so many were killed on the 'Meatbox'.
The early jet period was second only in danger to the early biplane period (and possibly worse).
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Sunday 1st July 20:01
The RAF forbade trying to do it but of course that was like a red rag to a bull. Apart from needing a huge amount of skill, the pilots also usually failed to realise they needed rockets and tip tanks fitted to give the aircraft enough rotational inertia.
Edited by ChemicalChaos on Monday 2nd July 19:08
ChemicalChaos said:
Meteors don't come out of inverted spins.
If a Meteor will come out of an upright spin (and it clearly will if you use the corect technique and have enough height) then there is absolutely no reason why it shouldn't come out of an inverted spin.I suspect inverted spins were mishandled.
Dr Jekyll said:
Europa1 said:
PRTVR said:
I think what he is saying is most people have never witnessed one plane crash ,let alone three,
I was indeed.Never seen a single incident.
Until last year, when I took the girlfriend to her first airshow at Abingdon.
Saw once aircraft crash (pilot took about half an hour to be extracted, but went on to a full recovery) and one make a forced landing with engine failure.
This year was better, with no incidents
Another US celebration of the 4th July:
https://twitter.com/SDASM/status/10145518736829931...
Oops.
The coloured smoke should have been a bit of a clue to the intern who was looking for a suitable image.
https://twitter.com/SDASM/status/10145518736829931...
Oops.
The coloured smoke should have been a bit of a clue to the intern who was looking for a suitable image.
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