Prop-driven fighting aircraft

[Chris71]

I watched The Quantum of Solace last night. It's a rather mixed movie and featured a slightly far fetched scene where bond ends up in something vaguely DC3-ish being shot at by a small propellor driven fighter plane.

Do they actually exist any more? I know there are quite a few propellor driven transports, but are there any (either piston engined or turbo prop) in air-to-air or ground attack roles any more?

[dougc]

I think some airforces use the Tucano for light attack stuff...

[rhinochopig]

The argie still use the Pucara for COIN duties.

Quite a few South America countries use turbo prop planes for COIN as well.

[coanda]

Yeah, there are some prop driven aircraft out there with a military role other than training. The most obvious is the Super Tucano. There will be more soon with Air Tractor receiving an order for their COIN version and rumours of the piper enforcer (massively modded mustang) being brought back a while ago for a new COIN/CAS requirement that was dropped recently but served as a catalyst for airforces to look into cheap CAS solutions. The super tucano and texan 2 were also involved in that requrement with demonstrators of both aircraft operating in the US. I think we may see a SOCOM specifc CAS unit equipped with Super Tucanos.

[Chris71]

coanda said:

Rumours of the piper enforcer (massively modded mustang) being brought back a while ago for a new COIN/CAS requirement that was dropped recently but served as a catalyst for airforces to look into cheap CAS solutions.

Jeez, I never realised people were effectively flying Mustangs into - according to Wikipedia - the mid '80s.

I dunno why but I was strangely amused to discover that both Ireland and Belgium have airforces. Somehow I didn't really see them as military powers.

On a similar note, were the RAF ever involved in counter insurgency in Northern Ireland? And while we're galloping off on that particular tangent, something I'm doing at work currently has led me to research UAVs - man those things are sophisticated these days! Quite a lot of counter insurgency work in Afghanistan now uses them apparently.

[andy97]

Both of these are being looked at for Counter Insurgency Ops:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_EMB_314_Super...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_T-6_Texan_...

There's rumours of this being brought back in to service:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Rockwe...

And then there's the daddy of them all (and a particular favourite of mine):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_AC-130

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

Chris71 said:

I dunno why but I was strangely amused to discover that both Ireland and Belgium have airforces. Somehow I didn't really see them as military powers.

Belgium used to have a rather good Air Force (on a par with the Cloggies) with F16s until the draw-down from 1994 (and the re-arrangement of their forces into a Combined Defence Force a la Canadian model).

They also used to host the NATO Air Forces 'Tactical Leadership Programme' at Florennes (having taken it over in 1989 from the Germans at Jever), although last year this moved to Albacete-Los Llanos in Spain.

[Chris71]

andy97 said:

There's rumours of this being brought back in to service:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Rockwe...

[coanda]

Chris71 said:

andy97 said:

There's rumours of this being brought back in to service:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Rockwe...

Yeah I had forgotten about the bronco....another good aircraft considering its external payload capacity, what the us managed to develop it into during vietnam and also its internal load carrying capability.

As the article probably says...all drawings being digitised I believe....another strong contender for a comeback.....hopefully they'll look at the turreted guns again!

[Chris71]

Well, seems we're going back to the Vietnam era, I always thought these looked rather cool.



It's like a Sea Fury that's been on the pies.

[Mr Dave]

Chris71 said:

coanda said:

Rumours of the piper enforcer (massively modded mustang) being brought back a while ago for a new COIN/CAS requirement that was dropped recently but served as a catalyst for airforces to look into cheap CAS solutions.

Jeez, I never realised people were effectively flying Mustangs into - according to Wikipedia - the mid '80s.

I dunno why but I was strangely amused to discover that both Ireland and Belgium have airforces. Somehow I didn't really see them as military powers.

On a similar note, were the RAF ever involved in counter insurgency in Northern Ireland? And while we're galloping off on that particular tangent, something I'm doing at work currently has led me to research UAVs - man those things are sophisticated these days! Quite a lot of counter insurgency work in Afghanistan now uses them apparently.

Belgium still have some F-16s so are a fair bit more capable than the Irish air corps with their PC-9s. The Irish helicopter "fleet" is pretty modern as well but arent very war capable helicopters, no self sealing tanks and so on, they have some Casas for maritime patrol and they are all very competant crews if slightly crazy.

RAF and Army Air Corps in northern ireland was mostly resupply of border checkpoints, moving troops and police about where the roads were too dangerous, reconnaissance and so on. Couple of helicopters were shot at and returned fire but that is about it. No ground attack missions were carried out as far as I know. Although there was that army patrol that requested ground attack aircraft because they thought the Irish army were invading but thats a story for another day....

What made me laugh was that during the troubles, when the RAF police and RAF regiment at Aldergrove were about in their blue uniform, the locals (who were quite republican there) would chat away and be as friendly as you like, when the same guys were in combats and looking all warry, the locals were quite aggressive or ignored them. Funny that.

[Dr Jekyll]

Mr Dave said:

RAF and Army Air Corps in northern ireland was mostly resupply of border checkpoints, moving troops and police about where the roads were too dangerous, reconnaissance and so on. Couple of helicopters were shot at and returned fire but that is about it. No ground attack missions were carried out as far as I know. Although there was that army patrol that requested ground attack aircraft because they thought the Irish army were invading but thats a story for another day....

What made me laugh was that during the troubles, when the RAF police and RAF regiment at Aldergrove were about in their blue uniform, the locals (who were quite republican there) would chat away and be as friendly as you like, when the same guys were in combats and looking all warry, the locals were quite aggressive or ignored them. Funny that.

Was that the base where someone painted on the wall "Paddy don't surf"?

Or is it an urban myth?

[Nick_F]

Aldergrove = Belfast International, so you could always go and have a look...

[Mojocvh]

Chris71 said:

Well, seems we're going back to the Vietnam era, I always thought these looked rather cool.



It's like a Sea Fury that's been on the pies.

forget sentimental, there is only one credible low and slow today........

Edited by Mojocvh on Thursday 5th August 23:09

[davepoth]

That's not a gun.



That's a gun. 105mm Howitzer on a plane. They also have two Vulcan cannons for when that runs out. The gunners are furnished with shovels to get rid of the shell casings...

[dr_gn]

Chris71 said:

Do they actually exist any more? I know there are quite a few propellor driven transports, but are there any (either piston engined or turbo prop) in air-to-air or ground attack roles any more?

Here's another one:

[theironduke]

davepoth said:

That's not a gun.



That's a gun. 105mm Howitzer on a plane. They also have two Vulcan cannons for when that runs out. The gunners are furnished with shovels to get rid of the shell casings...

Awesome!!! Just seems comedically outdated and archaic though, whacking a howitzer in the back of a plane and bolting on some Vulcans for good measure!! how accurate would the 105 be and how the hell do you aim it??? wouldn't mess with it though!!

[Yertis]

davepoth said:

That's not a gun.



That's a gun. 105mm Howitzer on a plane. They also have two Vulcan cannons for when that runs out. The gunners are furnished with shovels to get rid of the shell casings...

If they're just shoveling them out that presents a serious H&S risk.

[tank slapper]

theironduke said:

Awesome!!! Just seems comedically outdated and archaic though, whacking a howitzer in the back of a plane and bolting on some Vulcans for good measure!! how accurate would the 105 be and how the hell do you aim it??? wouldn't mess with it though!!

They are pretty accurate with it - there is a radar that can track the outgoing rounds to make targeting corrections. The most recent version doesn't have Vulcans, but has a 25mm rotary cannon instead. They also carry a 40mm Bofors gun.

edit - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-gMMQTt5-c

Edited by tank slapper on Friday 6th August 17:51

[tog]

tank slapper said:

theironduke said:

Awesome!!! Just seems comedically outdated and archaic though, whacking a howitzer in the back of a plane and bolting on some Vulcans for good measure!! how accurate would the 105 be and how the hell do you aim it??? wouldn't mess with it though!!

They are pretty accurate with it - there is a radar that can track the outgoing rounds to make targeting corrections. The most recent version doesn't have Vulcans, but has a 25mm rotary cannon instead. They also carry a 40mm Bofors gun.

I remember reading that they have some sort of electromagnetic detector in the targeting system which detects the ignition coils in vehicle engines.