Discussion
I'm spending a bit of time on the Norwegian south coast at the moment. They're absolutely boat mad down here and I've seen a lot of really nice craft. I'm falling in love with the idea of medium-sized sail cruisers for ocean sailing. Up to 50' the kind of thing you can comfortably take a couple of month's holiday on.
Obviously this isn't the kind of thing you just go out and buy especially if you have no idea how to sail one. Treating this as a future aspiration, what do you need to do (qualifications and training wise) in order to take this interest further? I've sailed on lakes as a youngster (Toppers, Lasers, Wayfarers) etc. but I do consider myself a total sail (and boat) novice.
Cheers!
Obviously this isn't the kind of thing you just go out and buy especially if you have no idea how to sail one. Treating this as a future aspiration, what do you need to do (qualifications and training wise) in order to take this interest further? I've sailed on lakes as a youngster (Toppers, Lasers, Wayfarers) etc. but I do consider myself a total sail (and boat) novice.
Cheers!
Yes the cash is an issue hence why it's a future aspiration!
Seems to me that the sea is a dangerous place and I for one wouldn't go out there without knowing what I'm doing! My parents' friends, despite a lot (years) of lake and ocean training, got in trouble in a sailboat in the channel and it scared them off for life. They sold off their part share in a ocean cruiser and two or three lake dingys never to go on the water again.
My (Norwegian) OH grew up with boating holidays but isn't trained and is used to powered cabin cruiser type boats.
Looks like I need to persuade her to go on a training holiday in the Med.
Seems to me that the sea is a dangerous place and I for one wouldn't go out there without knowing what I'm doing! My parents' friends, despite a lot (years) of lake and ocean training, got in trouble in a sailboat in the channel and it scared them off for life. They sold off their part share in a ocean cruiser and two or three lake dingys never to go on the water again.
My (Norwegian) OH grew up with boating holidays but isn't trained and is used to powered cabin cruiser type boats.
Looks like I need to persuade her to go on a training holiday in the Med.
Have you been aboard a 50 foot yacht? They are massive inside, and you could quite comfortably live on one permanently, let alone a holiday for a month.
There are other considerations for size as well though - once you get to that sort of size, maintenance costs go up considerably. Every piece of gear aboard is bigger to cope with the increased loads, and the price does not go up in proportion. An extra few feet of length often does not mean an extra few pounds at the chandlers.
Cost isn't the only issue. Although generally the larger the boat the faster it will be, it will also usually have a bigger draft which will limit your access to some ports.
There are other considerations for size as well though - once you get to that sort of size, maintenance costs go up considerably. Every piece of gear aboard is bigger to cope with the increased loads, and the price does not go up in proportion. An extra few feet of length often does not mean an extra few pounds at the chandlers.
Cost isn't the only issue. Although generally the larger the boat the faster it will be, it will also usually have a bigger draft which will limit your access to some ports.
Ok point taken 50' is a pretty large boat! Around here 40-50' seems the norm although Arendal in south Norway is populated by some extremely wealthy people during the summer. Raises an interesting question though, what is a comfortably sized yacht for long term holidaying for a couple (or small family)?
One of these (not this one) has been docked in the harbour here for the last few days and I think it's one of the prettiest things I've ever seen:
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44' I think...
One of these (not this one) has been docked in the harbour here for the last few days and I think it's one of the prettiest things I've ever seen:
44' I think...
Go for Cat twice as much space and shallow draft .
This one is quite expensive...lived on 2 superb boats and worked on many for a number of years.
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDet...
This one is quite expensive...lived on 2 superb boats and worked on many for a number of years.
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDet...
It depends on your definition of comfortable. I spend up to a month at a time on a 27 foot boat with no problem and the previous owner and his girlfriend lived on it for 2 years. As soon as you go over 30 feet the space is considerably more, so I would suggest going and having a look at a few of different sizes to see what you would feel happy with.
It also depends on what you are intending to be doing. If you will be mainly sitting in marinas, with short passages in between then you may be happy to compromise on sailing ability for more internal space, and if you intend longer passages or spending more time actually sailing, then it may be better to trade space for sea keeping ability.
It also depends on what you are intending to be doing. If you will be mainly sitting in marinas, with short passages in between then you may be happy to compromise on sailing ability for more internal space, and if you intend longer passages or spending more time actually sailing, then it may be better to trade space for sea keeping ability.
Pageant, pah. 
I cut my teeth in my teens on a Westerley Ocean Lord (dontcha know) around the Solent/channel. That seemed bloody huge at the time.
And training, yes, I'll get back on my bloody soap box again. Do it do it do it do it.
Actually, it's a good idea to do training where you intend to be sailing, they're mostly local instructors who know the area exceptionally well, and will show you all the best bits (and pubs) along the way.
Lots and lots of reading will help too, and do all of this before you put it in to practice.
We're toying with the idea of an Elan 434 next year, which I think is perfectly big enough, just remember they get exponentially more expensive the bigger you get. For example;
Winch for 20' boat - about £200
Winch for 40' boat - about £600
Winch for 60' boat - about £4000
I know somebody who sailed a 50' sloop back from the far east, got it all the way home, and could never afford to get it back in the water. All just too expensive to maintain. When I last spoke to him, he needed a new engine and two new winches, and was staring at a £20k bill just for the parts.
Ocean sailing is not for the faint hearted either;
I cut my teeth in my teens on a Westerley Ocean Lord (dontcha know) around the Solent/channel. That seemed bloody huge at the time.
And training, yes, I'll get back on my bloody soap box again. Do it do it do it do it.
Actually, it's a good idea to do training where you intend to be sailing, they're mostly local instructors who know the area exceptionally well, and will show you all the best bits (and pubs) along the way.
Lots and lots of reading will help too, and do all of this before you put it in to practice.
We're toying with the idea of an Elan 434 next year, which I think is perfectly big enough, just remember they get exponentially more expensive the bigger you get. For example;
Winch for 20' boat - about £200
Winch for 40' boat - about £600
Winch for 60' boat - about £4000
I know somebody who sailed a 50' sloop back from the far east, got it all the way home, and could never afford to get it back in the water. All just too expensive to maintain. When I last spoke to him, he needed a new engine and two new winches, and was staring at a £20k bill just for the parts.
Ocean sailing is not for the faint hearted either;
Forgot to mention, sailing courses in the med are great for a holiday, but it's non-tidal, so won't give you any experience in that area.
Good for boat handling, and a great starting point (from the weather aspect alone!), but probably not really suitable training for the Norwegian coast.
Good for boat handling, and a great starting point (from the weather aspect alone!), but probably not really suitable training for the Norwegian coast.
_rubinho_ said:
Ok point taken 50' is a pretty large boat! Around here 40-50' seems the norm although Arendal in south Norway is populated by some extremely wealthy people during the summer. Raises an interesting question though, what is a comfortably sized yacht for long term holidaying for a couple (or small family)?
One of these (not this one) has been docked in the harbour here for the last few days and I think it's one of the prettiest things I've ever seen:
44' I think...
What kind of boat is that? Looks an older design - with the overhanging stem, narrow beam, overhanging stern... nice.One of these (not this one) has been docked in the harbour here for the last few days and I think it's one of the prettiest things I've ever seen:
44' I think...
Ayahuasca said:
_rubinho_ said:
Ok point taken 50' is a pretty large boat! Around here 40-50' seems the norm although Arendal in south Norway is populated by some extremely wealthy people during the summer. Raises an interesting question though, what is a comfortably sized yacht for long term holidaying for a couple (or small family)?
One of these (not this one) has been docked in the harbour here for the last few days and I think it's one of the prettiest things I've ever seen:
44' I think...
What kind of boat is that? Looks an older design - with the overhanging stem, narrow beam, overhanging stern... nice.One of these (not this one) has been docked in the harbour here for the last few days and I think it's one of the prettiest things I've ever seen:
44' I think...
EDIT: confirmed 100% model designation.
Edited by _rubinho_ on Tuesday 10th August 10:08
Looks like an Amel but don't think it is, but is you are wanting to sail off round the world then an Amel would be a great boat. The design and style does look old when next a new Beneteau First 45 or similar but they are designed to do very different things.
Edited by cjm on Tuesday 10th August 09:56
As others have said, as a kid the Westerly centaur 26 ft? seemed fine for long holidays, now our Fulmar 32ft seems too small for a weekend. Mind you when manouvering in a packed Yarmouth a couple of weeks ago it felt huge and I was suddenly less envious of the 40ft+ brigade. Some of them had to moor outside Yarmouth which makes for an uncomfortable night.
For me 45ft approx is ideal until you get to tight ports, I am not sure that running costs (except for harbour fees) would be massively more than our 32 footer.
Generally a longer waterline = a faster boat (displacement vessels only) as long as you have the power in the rig. I always fancied a 50ft planing yacht!
For me 45ft approx is ideal until you get to tight ports, I am not sure that running costs (except for harbour fees) would be massively more than our 32 footer.
Generally a longer waterline = a faster boat (displacement vessels only) as long as you have the power in the rig. I always fancied a 50ft planing yacht!
village idiot said:
what you need is a friendly yachtbroker who tends to deal with yachts in the region of 40-60ft... hmmm.. now where you could find such a person ;-)
Is the photo of the Boxster on your prof taken at Hamble Point per chance. Used to sail from there when it was called Fairey Marinevillage idiot said:
what you need is a friendly yachtbroker who tends to deal with yachts in the region of 40-60ft... hmmm.. now where you could find such a person ;-)
Sounds good. Don't suppose you know any friendly criminals who can help me get a fistful of cash, enough to say buy a 40-60ft sailing yacht perhaps, in short order? _rubinho_ said:
village idiot said:
what you need is a friendly yachtbroker who tends to deal with yachts in the region of 40-60ft... hmmm.. now where you could find such a person ;-)
Sounds good. Don't suppose you know any friendly criminals who can help me get a fistful of cash, enough to say buy a 40-60ft sailing yacht perhaps, in short order? Ayahuasca said:
_rubinho_ said:
village idiot said:
what you need is a friendly yachtbroker who tends to deal with yachts in the region of 40-60ft... hmmm.. now where you could find such a person ;-)
Sounds good. Don't suppose you know any friendly criminals who can help me get a fistful of cash, enough to say buy a 40-60ft sailing yacht perhaps, in short order? 
Adiós!
Not ready to let this thread die just yet; I've another question (no crime this time).
This is a hard question to ask and is easily answerable by "how long is a piece of string" but bear with me. Ignoring for a moment the type of yacht, weather conditions, ocean currents and other variable factors extremely roughly how fast would you travel. Say, for example, given a month and average summer weather how long a round trip could you comfortably do e.g. France and back, Portugal and back, Italy and back? Bear in mind that it would be a holiday so the point would be to stop in a few places for a night and not sail 4 hours on and 4 hours off non-stop for a month!
This is a hard question to ask and is easily answerable by "how long is a piece of string" but bear with me. Ignoring for a moment the type of yacht, weather conditions, ocean currents and other variable factors extremely roughly how fast would you travel. Say, for example, given a month and average summer weather how long a round trip could you comfortably do e.g. France and back, Portugal and back, Italy and back? Bear in mind that it would be a holiday so the point would be to stop in a few places for a night and not sail 4 hours on and 4 hours off non-stop for a month!
_rubinho_ said:
Not ready to let this thread die just yet; I've another question (no crime this time).
This is a hard question to ask and is easily answerable by "how long is a piece of string" but bear with me. Ignoring for a moment the type of yacht, weather conditions, ocean currents and other variable factors extremely roughly how fast would you travel. Say, for example, given a month and average summer weather how long a round trip could you comfortably do e.g. France and back, Portugal and back, Italy and back? Bear in mind that it would be a holiday so the point would be to stop in a few places for a night and not sail 4 hours on and 4 hours off non-stop for a month!
Before I actually did this for real, I thought the same thing.... How far can we go?This is a hard question to ask and is easily answerable by "how long is a piece of string" but bear with me. Ignoring for a moment the type of yacht, weather conditions, ocean currents and other variable factors extremely roughly how fast would you travel. Say, for example, given a month and average summer weather how long a round trip could you comfortably do e.g. France and back, Portugal and back, Italy and back? Bear in mind that it would be a holiday so the point would be to stop in a few places for a night and not sail 4 hours on and 4 hours off non-stop for a month!
We had plans for South France (west), Barcelona, Valencia, Balearics, Corsica, Northern Italy and back around the coast of France. A sort of middle-ish loop of the Med.
Trouble with this, is you're always on the move, when actually, it's sometimes nice to STOP!
We got as far as Ibiza, pulled in for breakfast, and ended up there for over a month. It's nothing like you've seen on TV (which is mainly confined to San Antonio on the north west part of the island), Ibiza town is a world heritage site, beautiful.
Similar thing happened in Barcelona. We were there for a week, paid our marina bill, got 5 miles out to sea, changed our minds, turned back, and stayed another week. The second visit was so much better, we made a lot more of our time there.
In all of this, we worked out the very, very best way to do a long (or long-ish) sailing trip is to have as little plans as possible. Then if you find somewhere really nice, you can stay as long as you like, and make the most of it. Places that aren't as great as you think, you can move on early.
We found the coast of Spain boring, and very spread out (compared to France, which has nice little marinas all over the place). Spain is a full day sail from one marina to the next, with nothing inbetween. No bays, coves, or anywhere to stop or look at, just rocks. The cities were amazing though. For a month, I would recommend cruising across France (the south cost is only 200 miles long, but packed with places to see), or the Balearics, which are similar distances but a bit more diverse.
One thing your post didn't say was where 'back' is?
Where would you be sailing from?
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