Battle of Britain - the film
Discussion
My opinions on the film itself aren't good, lets leave it at 'disappointing' and far less than the sum of its parts.
However, given it's CGI free, there seemed to be plenty of aircraft available to them for both RAF and Luftwaffe.
Would these have been replicas or the real deal? If the latter, what has happened to them all? Does the UK even have enough spits for an airworthy squadron?
However, given it's CGI free, there seemed to be plenty of aircraft available to them for both RAF and Luftwaffe.
Would these have been replicas or the real deal? If the latter, what has happened to them all? Does the UK even have enough spits for an airworthy squadron?
shirt said:
My opinions on the film itself aren't good, lets leave it at 'disappointing' and far less than the sum of its parts.
However, given it's CGI free, there seemed to be plenty of aircraft available to them for both RAF and Luftwaffe.
Would these have been replicas or the real deal? If the latter, what has happened to them all? Does the UK even have enough spits for an airworthy squadron?
I'm not sure the UK has enough of anything currently to make an airworthy squadron!However, given it's CGI free, there seemed to be plenty of aircraft available to them for both RAF and Luftwaffe.
Would these have been replicas or the real deal? If the latter, what has happened to them all? Does the UK even have enough spits for an airworthy squadron?
The 'Messerschmits" were semi real. They were Buchons, a Spanish built BF109 with Rolls Royce Merlin engines that had only recently been taken out of service. The 'Heinkels' were also Spanish built versions with Merlin engines and were in service into the 1970s.
As for Spitfires, the flying ones were real, though often late models modified to look like the battle of Britain variant. A few replicas filled out the ground scenes.
The Hurricanes were also real, except for the scene where the Polish squadron is going into attack. There were only 2 real Hurricanes so most of those in this scene are actually Buchons, but you have to look closely.
The Stukas were models. but so big (possibly 1/2 scale) that 'unmanned replica' might be a better description.
The Spitfires and Hurricanes mostly still exist. Even after bad crashes they have been 'rebuilt', though some are probably virtually new build. There are actually more airworthy Spitfires and Hurricanes now than when the film was made. Also some real BF109s, which there weren't then.
The Buchons are now scarce, but still pretty common at airshows, still in German rather than Spanish colours. Similarly the 111s didn't attract many collectors once the Spanish retired them. One was flying in the US for a long while but was destroyed in a crash a few years back.
As for Spitfires, the flying ones were real, though often late models modified to look like the battle of Britain variant. A few replicas filled out the ground scenes.
The Hurricanes were also real, except for the scene where the Polish squadron is going into attack. There were only 2 real Hurricanes so most of those in this scene are actually Buchons, but you have to look closely.
The Stukas were models. but so big (possibly 1/2 scale) that 'unmanned replica' might be a better description.
The Spitfires and Hurricanes mostly still exist. Even after bad crashes they have been 'rebuilt', though some are probably virtually new build. There are actually more airworthy Spitfires and Hurricanes now than when the film was made. Also some real BF109s, which there weren't then.
The Buchons are now scarce, but still pretty common at airshows, still in German rather than Spanish colours. Similarly the 111s didn't attract many collectors once the Spanish retired them. One was flying in the US for a long while but was destroyed in a crash a few years back.
I like the film. The only annoying aspect for me is the complete lack of authenticity when it comes to Susannah York's hairstyle, eye make-up and suspenders - although there are compensations.
Considering what was available to them, I think they did a good job and for anyone wanting an introduction to the essential features as to what the Battle was about, it is not bad at all.
I still watch it on DVD regularly and am looking forward to having a look again now that I've bought myself a speaker system for the TV.
TAKKATAKKATAKKATAKKA
Considering what was available to them, I think they did a good job and for anyone wanting an introduction to the essential features as to what the Battle was about, it is not bad at all.
I still watch it on DVD regularly and am looking forward to having a look again now that I've bought myself a speaker system for the TV.
TAKKATAKKATAKKATAKKA
"You can teach monkeys to fly better than that ....."
I always thought that within the limitations of 1960s special effects and allowing for the inevitable '60s hairstyles, the film does a pretty good job of telling the general story.
They tried to create some full scale "Stukas" by heavily modifying a Percival Proctor (I think it was nicknamed a Proktuka) but the ensuing aircraft was not really airworthy, hence models were used. For the scene where the Luftwaffe bomb the aerodrome and the squadron attempts to scramble during the raid, the props department used replica Spitfires with Ford engines which were taxiable.
The Spitfires were modified to look as much as possible like 1940 Mk1s, but if you look closely, quite a number have nine exhaust stubs on each side rather than three and were MkIXs. I think the UK filming took place at RAF Henlow and Duxford and at the time the aircraft represented the 11th largest airforce in the world. (I stand to be corrected on the exact ranking).
A rather large amount of plastic explosive was used to blow up one of the hangars at Duxford to simulate a direct hit by a German bomb. Unfortunately for the first take the explosives didn't go off and the special effects team had to go back into the hangar to re-set, not knowing whether or not the charge might go up with them inside. The second take was successful, but is now widely regarded as and act of vandalism because it left a large hangar-sized gap in the row at Duxford.
I always thought that within the limitations of 1960s special effects and allowing for the inevitable '60s hairstyles, the film does a pretty good job of telling the general story.
They tried to create some full scale "Stukas" by heavily modifying a Percival Proctor (I think it was nicknamed a Proktuka) but the ensuing aircraft was not really airworthy, hence models were used. For the scene where the Luftwaffe bomb the aerodrome and the squadron attempts to scramble during the raid, the props department used replica Spitfires with Ford engines which were taxiable.
The Spitfires were modified to look as much as possible like 1940 Mk1s, but if you look closely, quite a number have nine exhaust stubs on each side rather than three and were MkIXs. I think the UK filming took place at RAF Henlow and Duxford and at the time the aircraft represented the 11th largest airforce in the world. (I stand to be corrected on the exact ranking).
A rather large amount of plastic explosive was used to blow up one of the hangars at Duxford to simulate a direct hit by a German bomb. Unfortunately for the first take the explosives didn't go off and the special effects team had to go back into the hangar to re-set, not knowing whether or not the charge might go up with them inside. The second take was successful, but is now widely regarded as and act of vandalism because it left a large hangar-sized gap in the row at Duxford.
I could do without the love story and 1960's make-up, but the film brought the BoB back into the forefront, introduced a new generation (my father took me to see it), and perhaps most importantly, woke the industry up to the fact there weren't many warbirds left. Eric may correct me but I think it was the Director's call for aeroplanes that started much of the modern restoration industry.
I can't see how it disappoints - was the OP expecting wall-to-wall CGI with Angelina Jolie running over the ceiling in slow motion whilst firing from the hip? That seems to constitute most current films.
I can't see how it disappoints - was the OP expecting wall-to-wall CGI with Angelina Jolie running over the ceiling in slow motion whilst firing from the hip? That seems to constitute most current films.
I didn't notice it this time around (Saturday was it?) but have seen the B25 camera plane also in use as part of the "crowd" in the bomber attacks
It was definitely in view for a second or so during the reconstruction of the Battle shown on satellite telly early this year, using massive out-takes from the film
Did anyone see that programme, it was quite good considering how much BoB film footage was used/plagiarised
?
And I'm in total agreement with Eric on the topic of Susanna York
A bit of red lippy would have improved the film no end
It was definitely in view for a second or so during the reconstruction of the Battle shown on satellite telly early this year, using massive out-takes from the film
Did anyone see that programme, it was quite good considering how much BoB film footage was used/plagiarised
?And I'm in total agreement with Eric on the topic of Susanna York
A bit of red lippy would have improved the film no end
Interesting article on the BBC web site the other day about Airframe Assemblies on the Isle Of Wight, who are still (re)building authentic Spitfires even now.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/hampshire/hi/people_an...
Depends on your definition of "authentic" I suppose but good on them!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/hampshire/hi/people_an...
Depends on your definition of "authentic" I suppose but good on them!!
shirt said:
Does the UK even have enough spits for an airworthy squadron?
Well, there were 15 flying in formation at Duxford last weekend, and you only need 12 for a squadron, so yes is the answer 
Actually, at the time of filming the airworthy fleet represented the worlds 16th largest airforce or something like that, and in many ways, started the whole 'warbird' movement in the UK, and a number of aircraft were restored back to flight for the film, and then donated to the BBMF etc afterwards.
Only Tora, Tora, Tora (filmed the year afterwards) comes close to the Battle of Britain for numbers of aircraft used and aerial scenes filmed.
Messershmits
No thay aint, they're 'einkels
Messerchmits
They also filmed at Hawkinge- the scene where they took off straight over the channel is Hawkinge. Which has a cracking museum, by the way.
And I agree with the love story spoiling the film, but it does show the surprise when they started to bomb london, and how life did continue.
Anyhow, today I've undone my top button so boys will know I'm a fighter pilot.
No thay aint, they're 'einkels
Messerchmits
They also filmed at Hawkinge- the scene where they took off straight over the channel is Hawkinge. Which has a cracking museum, by the way.
And I agree with the love story spoiling the film, but it does show the surprise when they started to bomb london, and how life did continue.
Anyhow, today I've undone my top button so boys will know I'm a fighter pilot.
williamp said:
They also filmed at Hawkinge- the scene where they took off straight over the channel is Hawkinge. Which has a cracking museum, by the way.
Yes, and Hawkinge was pretty much still as it was in 1940 at the time of the filming.....so sad that the most frontline as well as last remaining all original (i.e grass runway) RAF BofB airfield couldn't have been saved in it's entireity... 
I can remember driving down there just before the diggers moved in for a final 'rememberence' visit.
They also filmed at North Weald too, the distinctive line of tall trees being very evident in the 'dispersal hut - you can teach monkey's to fly better than that' scenes.
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